"Improvements" to road vehicles which have arguably made things worse?

[zero]

My car (a hybrid) releases the electronic handbrake when you shift to Drive and applies it when you shift to Park.

I would find it odd to have an electronic handbrake with a manual gearbox

 

[edwin_m]

I would find it odd to have an electronic handbrake with a manual gearbox

Ours applies when the vehicle stops, provided some level of footbrake is also being applied, and releases when the accelerator is pressed. I've been minorly caught out a couple of times when rolling to a halt on an upward slope with no brake applied and then starting to roll back. The only time I've had to switch this feature off is when maneuvering on a steep slope, most recently exiting a tight parking space. On the downhill moves it would otherwise take off like a cork in a bottle on applying power.

 

[Harpo]

I suppose it goes to prove that I should have RTFM, but that's 300+ pages long and includes a lot of stuff about variations and options that mine doesn't have.

Not necessary with VW. Paper FM cancelled as part of profit increases eco initiatives and replaced by RIOYFP. (Read it on your phone).

 

[Ken X]

We run a Ford which has an electric handbrake with two buttons. The main button applies the brake when flipped up leaving me with the choice of just driving off, and it releasing when sufficient torque is applied, useful for hill starts and when I am being lazy or flipping it down to release. All fine and dandy.
The second button is for when several regular applications are required such as when queuing and shuffling forward. Press the second button and a firm application of the foot brake applies a parking brake and driving off releases it. Great I thinks, I like that idea.

Unfortunately, what it does is lock the foot brake on, meaning that all the time you are stopped the brake lights are illuminated which I am not happy with. Consequently I don't use this mode in queues but prefer to just flick the handbrake on each time I stop.

Shame it couldn't have been better designed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

My car (a hybrid) releases the electronic handbrake when you shift to Drive and applies it when you shift to Park.

I would find it odd to have an electronic handbrake with a manual gearbox

Is that actually an electronic handbrake or just the park pawl in the gearbox (a piece of metal that locks the gearbox and prevents the gears turning) as exists on basically all automatic gearboxes?

Usually there's a separate way of controlling the actual handbrake, i.e. the brake on the wheels.

Pretty much all new cars now have electronic handbrakes, manual or automatic.

 

[VioletEclipse]

one thing that many vehicles have is taillights and brake lights being in the same place, meaning that if the third brake light is obscured, non-existent or broken, the only indication that the vehicle is braking is a slight increase in brightness of the same red light. Also sometimes headlights that are so bright that you can barely see the tiny embedded indicator.

 

[DelW]

one thing that many vehicles have is taillights and brake lights being in the same place, meaning that if the third brake light is obscured, non-existent or broken, the only indication that the vehicle is braking is a slight increase in brightness of the same red light.

I agree that style is poor, but I don't think it's anything new. At least one of my cars from many years ago had twin-filament bulbs in the tail lights. IIRC one was 21w for the brake light and the other was 5w for the tail light. That was long before high-level brake lights were introduced too.

 

[Ediswan]

I agree that style is poor, but I don't think it's anything new. At least one of my cars from many years ago had twin-filament bulbs in the tail lights. IIRC one was 21w for the brake light and the other was 5w for the tail light. That was long before high-level brake lights were introduced too.

Having separate lamps/lenses for stop and tail would only make a difference if you are close enough to see them as separate. From a distance, it would still appear as just two brightness levels of red light.

 

[edwin_m]

I agree that style is poor, but I don't think it's anything new. At least one of my cars from many years ago had twin-filament bulbs in the tail lights. IIRC one was 21w for the brake light and the other was 5w for the tail light. That was long before high-level brake lights were introduced too.

That was indeed pretty much universal "back in the day". The third brake light makes a lot of difference in being able to distinguish, also if someone driving in front (or their automation) decides to switch the rear lights on.

At least we never did what the Americans did, where the same lamp did duty as a turn indicator as well.

 

[DelW]

At least we never did what the Americans did, where the same lamp did duty as a turn indicator as well.

AIUI that's one of the (many) things saving us from having the hideous Tesla Cybertruck inflicted on us. There is someone posting on YouTube his experience of trying to get one modified to comply with our regulations, and its having LED lights in U S colours is one of his problems. How he intends to overcome the razor sharp edges, lack of deformable bonnet or crumple zones, and general design stupidity I don't know (or really care, personally I hope he doesn't succeed or it might encourage others to bring them here).

 

[edwin_m]

AIUI that's one of the (many) things saving us from having the hideous Tesla Cybertruck inflicted on us. There is someone posting on YouTube his experience of trying to get one modified to comply with our regulations, and its having LED lights in U S colours is one of his problems. How he intends to overcome the razor sharp edges, lack of deformable bonnet or crumple zones, and general design stupidity I don't know (or really care, personally I hope he doesn't succeed or it might encourage others to bring them here).

I saw a story about someone driving one in Manchester and having it impounded because it wasn't street legal in the UK. I think they got it back but still weren't able to use it.

US vehicle safety standards are solely based on the safety of the occupants. They have plenty of SUVs and pickup trucks whose designs that take no account whatever of the safety of anyone they might hit, and are so huge that small children are out of sight behind the bonnet and even adults will suffer a more lethal injury if struck. I don't know if these are outright banned in the EU and UK like the Cybertruck apparently is, or whether they just can't be placed on the market.

 

[Bald Rick]

I would find it odd to have an electronic handbrake with a manual gearbox

I found it odd for about 20 minutes, but would never have one without now. It comes on when you stop, and releases when you move off, simple.

 

[GordonT]

I was getting a lift recently from a friend late at night and marvelling at the amount of illumination from his LED lighting surrounding the dashboard and neighbouring panels - and privately rejoicing that my own spartan car is devoid of such a feature as it would completely get on my nerves whilst driving.

 

[Meerkat]

Having separate lamps/lenses for stop and tail would only make a difference if you are close enough to see them as separate. From a distance, it would still appear as just two brightness levels of red light.

It’s the indicators that need separating from the brake lights. Those VWs that had the indicators in the centre of the brake lights were ridiculous.

i lost don’t like cars with orange sidelights, nearly pulled out in front of one because undergrowth made it look like they were flashing.

 

[Indigo Soup]

I would find it odd to have an electronic handbrake with a manual gearbox

Weirder things do exist. Like the semiautomatic gearbox: gear selection works like a manual, but the clutch is automatic. No, I don't fully understand how it works. But apparently there used to be a market in the US of people who wanted to be seen to be driving 'stick', but had never learnt clutch control.

They are, apparently, absolutely awful to drive.

US vehicle safety standards are solely based on the safety of the occupants. They have plenty of SUVs and pickup trucks whose designs that take no account whatever of the safety of anyone they might hit, and are so huge that small children are out of sight behind the bonnet and even adults will suffer a more lethal injury if struck. I don't know if these are outright banned in the EU and UK like the Cybertruck apparently is, or whether they just can't be placed on the market.

A large number of North American pickup trucks have a high enough gross weight that they require a Category C1 licence (up to 7.5 tonnes) in the EU and UK, or C1+E if used for towing. In the US, you can drive such things at 15 having just passed a test in the family car.

 

[Bletchleyite]

i lost don’t like cars with orange sidelights, nearly pulled out in front of one because undergrowth made it look like they were flashing.

Indicators just give an indication. Until you see other signs like the vehicle slowing and the front wheels moving, you don't assume it means anything. A good lesson there.

All long vehicles have orange side markers, by the way, e.g. buses and lorries.

 

[Meerkat]

Indicators just give an indication. Until you see other signs like the vehicle slowing and the front wheels moving, you don't assume it means anything. A good lesson there.

All long vehicles have orange side markers, by the way, e.g. buses and lorries.

Indeed, that’s why I only almost pulled out! But that’s how you get rear ended…..
Though of course traffic would come to a standstill if everyone followed that to the letter.
I don’t see the need for cars to have orange side lights and they add risk

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed, that’s why I only almost pulled out! But that’s how you get rear ended…..

Only if you're moving before you should be.

Though of course traffic would come to a standstill if everyone followed that to the letter.

Not true at all. Traffic would flow better if people made positive moves at the right time rather than acting hesitantly which causes a brake light cascade and jams.

I don’t see the need for cars to have orange side lights and they add risk

Side marker lights are helpful because they make a vehicle more likely to be seen. The error here was the driver's incorrect assumption. An indicator is just that - an indication of what a vehicle MIGHT do - and you don't start moving until more evidence that it WILL do that has developed.

 

[Arrpi87]

BIOS engines, "Belt in Oil".
I have always favoured engines where the camshaft is driven by a timing chain over engines which use a belt.
I am prepared to accept a belt-driven camshaft engine provided the belt is dry , but not the crazy design by Ford (Ecoboost) and Stellantis ( Puretech) where the belt runs in sump oil. Hot engine oil and synthetic belts do not get along in a friendly fashion.
The oil-wetted belt will deteriorate shedding debris which blocks oil flow from the sump to the oil pump, and an early demise to an expensive engine
It is a well-known fault in the trade, Puretech and Ecoboost engines failing at 50,000 miles .
I hear Ford in the USA have lost a law-suit class action for Ecoboost "wet-belt" failing engines and an expensive recall and compensation campaign is in hand.

I am one of Ford's many Ecoboost victims. I had a 2013 Fiesta Titanium Ecoboost that failed spectacularly on a motorway, leaving me stranded on a freezing winter night for 8 hours (the AA's "speedy" response is another story). The car ended up being a total write off after 60k miles.


I hadn't known about the Ecoboost problems when I bought it, and of course the dealer was beside himself signing the praises of this wonder engine. Of course after that I avoided Ford, and any other wet belt engines like the plague. And pleaded with friends and family to do the same.

I ended up switching to a diesel Insignia which was much more reliable and straight forward to use. However, now I'm 5 weeks into owning a fully electric Skoda Enyaq which contains more fancy features than I ever dreamed of, some of which I prefer to fully deactivate, most of which have been mentioned in these pages. Sometimes these new "aids" are a hindrance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am one of Ford's many Ecoboost victims. I had a 2013 Fiesta Titanium Ecoboost that failed spectacularly on a motorway, leaving me stranded on a freezing winter night for 8 hours (the AA's "speedy" response is another story). The car ended up being a total write off after 60k miles.

I think to be honest cambelts (whether wet or dry) fit perfectly into this thread. It's utterly nonsensical having a consumable where if it fails the engine will be completely destroyed. The whole idea of it is just terrible. It was OK with old non-interference* engines (we had one go on an old Carlton on holiday in France once, it just went at the traffic lights, all it needed was a replacement and we were good to go again) but on an interference engine the whole idea is just nuts.

Chain cams or gear driven cams are far better - the latter best of all.

I suppose give it 20 years and we'll all have forgotten any form of ICE was a thing, though.

* i.e. where it's physically impossible for the pistons and the valves to collide even if the belt fails completely. For a comparison, think a tilting train with a body profile such that even on full tilt it can't hit something vs TASS which means it doesn't tilt where it might hit something but that can in theory fail wrong-side, even if unlikely.

 

[Meerkat]

Only if you're moving before you should be.

It’s a roundabout, you don’t have to stop.

Not true at all. Traffic would flow better if people made positive moves at the right time rather than acting hesitantly which causes a brake light cascade and jams.

Very true if everyone waited until a car turned in before pulling out.

Side marker lights are helpful because they make a vehicle more likely to be seen.

But why orange when there are already white sidelights?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It’s a roundabout, you don’t have to stop.

You don't have to stop if it's safe to proceed. It clearly wasn't safe to proceed.

Living in Milton Keynes I have a lot of experience with roundabouts. And one fundamental thing I always do (and has avoided accidents) is that I don't believe the indicators on a car until I've seen other evidence of what they're going to do. The angle of the front wheels as they steer and their speed tend to be big clues, though obviously sometimes people change their mind and even that can be a bit iffy.

Very true if everyone waited until a car turned in before pulling out.

You don't need to wait for them to turn in. You simply need to watch what they're doing. They aren't going to stop on a sixpence and turn, they're going to slow and they're going to start turning their wheels.

Obviously if the car is far enough away to pull out even if they didn't turn, you go regardless, and you go confidently, quickly and without hesitation so if they do go straight on you aren't causing them to need to change speed or direction (one of the Highway Code rules people ignore an awful lot!)

What causes rear endings (aside from people not paying attention behind) is hesitancy. Go confidently or wait, but don't creep forward or dither - that's what confuses bad drivers behind and causes them to crash into you. Both times I've been rear ended (insurance wise obviously this goes 100% against them, but it's still a pain) it was because I started moving but aborted, and would perhaps have been better not attempting to proceed at all and wait until it definitely was clear rather than misjudging and having to stop again.

But why orange when there are already white sidelights?

Eh? Lights along the side of a vehicle are marker lights, not sidelights, and are always yellow. Their purpose is so you can better see a longer vehicle such as a bus, lorry or a large SUV/estate side-on in the dark. Sidelights/parking lights are on the front of a vehicle and don't actually serve much purpose (theoretically they're for parking on unlit roads with a limit of over 30mph, but you're just best off not doing that at all and your battery won't last if you use them) - aside from that if you need them on you probably need your headlamps on anyway.

If you encountered a vehicle where the front indicators were showing yellow permanently, then that's a dodgy US import (probably also had the rear reds flashing as indicators too). That is standard in the US.

 

[GordonT]

Audible alerts to the impending presence of speed cameras are a dubious virtue as arguably their existence may serve to embolden drivers to exceed speed limits more often than not.
Even voice alerts on Satnav and the like stating the current speed limit in relation to the position of the vehicle are of questionable benefit. A while back the location of the reduction of the speed limit from 50mph to 40mph was advanced towards the country direction by a mile or so on the A92 entering Edinburgh at Cramond unbeknown to Satnav. Another instance where over reliance on technology rather than the Mk1 eyeball can lead to unintended consequences.

 

[Meerkat]

You don't have to stop if it's safe to proceed. It clearly wasn't safe to proceed.

And that’s why I didn’t actually pull out in front of them……..

If you encountered a vehicle where the front indicators were showing yellow permanently,

It was a Volvo. Memory says they weren’t the indicators, nearer the bumpers. But it was a while back so maybe they were indicators and knackerEd…..sure I have seen other examples though!

 

[pdq]

If you encountered a vehicle where the front indicators were showing yellow permanently, then that's a dodgy US import (probably also had the rear reds flashing as indicators too). That is standard in the US

It has become the latest 'fad' for some younger drivers to program their car front indicators to act as running lights (à la USA). I see this particularly in VAG vehicles, especially the Golf and Leon, so I assume it's a reasonably easy hack using ODB11 and a programmer like Carly.

 

[Indigo Soup]

Audible alerts to the impending presence of speed cameras are a dubious virtue as arguably their existence may serve to embolden drivers to exceed speed limits more often than not.

I'm not convinced that making speed cameras highly visible was a good idea at all. I know the theory is that it stops people from seeing them then slamming on their brakes. But the reality is that they just slow down from excessive speed gradually.

If an undetected speed camera could be anywhere, the deterrent effect against speeding would be enhanced.

 

[edwin_m]

I'm not convinced that making speed cameras highly visible was a good idea at all. I know the theory is that it stops people from seeing them then slamming on their brakes. But the reality is that they just slow down from excessive speed gradually.

If an undetected speed camera could be anywhere, the deterrent effect against speeding would be enhanced.

I think the yellow colour was in response to lobbying by the "right to drive as fast as I like" brigade a few years back, rather than any scientific evaluation of the risks and benefits.

Mobile camera vans could be anywhere, but tend to be pretty visible.

 

[david1212]

I often just release the handbrake to move my car on the drive.
Last Friday I parked close to the garage door so space in front for bins to be left waiting to be emptied.
After all were done I moved the bins to the side then rolled the car forward to open garage door and have space to move the bins through the garage to the rear.
When I wash the car for the wheels I go around once then roll the car half a turn of the wheels to clean the inside of the rim that was at the top and the area by the brake caliper.
With an electric handbrake presumably this is not possible so have to get into car and start ...

If an accident and engine disabled / start locked out or breakdown presumably can not release the handbrake to move the car at least right to the side of the road if not off onto verge.

one thing that many vehicles have is taillights and brake lights being in the same place, meaning that if the third brake light is obscured, non-existent or broken, the only indication that the vehicle is braking is a slight increase in brightness of the same red light. Also sometimes headlights that are so bright that you can barely see the tiny embedded indicator.

...
LED lights have allowed designers to make lighting unsafe* - tiny indicators and/or indicators in the middle of or too close to main lights for them to show up.
Had a moment when one cars tiny indicator was hidden by a small branch!

*Though VW managed that with old lights on the Golfs that had a circular indicator in the middle of a ring for the rear and brake lights!

Agreed. Vehicle lighting regulations should be updated to mandate a minimum illuminated area for indicators. Old style indicators are much harder to miss.

IMO there should be both a minimum area for indicators and a minimum seperation from tail lights, brake lights, fog lights and headlights.
The light level used to be defined by bulb ratings. To formally do this with LED would have to be by the illumination level.

A work colleague has recently swapped his car. He says that between main and dipped headlights there is no switching of the LED's or change in the actual light output. Rather internally the lamp(s) / reflector(s) are motorised to move the beam down and left for dipped.

It has become the latest 'fad' for some younger drivers to program their car front indicators to act as running lights (à la USA). I see this particularly in VAG vehicles, especially the Golf and Leon, so I assume it's a reasonably easy hack using ODB11 and a programmer like Carly.

I have seen this a few times recently and noted at least some were VAG cars. Now I know not a fault but an intentional hack.

 

[aar0]

With an electric handbrake presumably this is not possible so have to get into car and start ...

Can’t tell you with your exact car but put the key in the ignition (don’t need to turn the engine on (and yes, this is possible with keyless ignition)), then release the hand brake and roll.

 

[greyman42]

Weirder things do exist. Like the semiautomatic gearbox: gear selection works like a manual, but the clutch is automatic. No, I don't fully understand how it works. But apparently there used to be a market in the US of people who wanted to be seen to be driving 'stick', but had never learnt clutch control.

They are, apparently, absolutely awful to drive.

Are they that much different to "flappy paddle" gear changes?