Should I expect a prosecution letter?

[ahelpinghand]

Earlier today, I boarded a train from London Paddington to Cardiff Central. My ticket was checked on the train with no issues. However, arriving in Cardiff, I realised the ticket was for a different day. Panicking, I bought a ticket to exit the doors. However, I realised this was stupid and went straight up to the man on the gate and explained what I had done. I presented my tickets and he offered me a choice: buy the ticket, or it would be passed to the fraud team. Obviously, I asked for the former.
Together, we walked to buy a ticket. However, apparently there was a glitch on their system which meant that my particular ticket was unable to be purchased by them. I queried this, but the man said that as I couldn’t buy a valid ticket for my route, I would get a letter using the details on my ‘Guest’ trainline account.

10 minutes later, I returned to the station and explained that I could buy a valid ticket, even if their system could not. The man in the kiosk explained the technical fault and showed me that my ticket was not available on their system. He told me to talk to the men on the gates, which I did. My original man was not there anymore (on break?) and instead, I explained the situation in its entirety to another man. He was more sympathetic, and detailed that if I bought a ticket, he would find the other individual and that should be the end of the matter. I then purchased a valid ticket and left it with him (I took a picture).

My question is this: given my pro-activity to get the issue sorted, is it now resolved? My fear is that the original man may not be happy with this solution, and it may even be that he wasn’t happy with the ticket I bought as there was no fine attached. Let me know your thoughts.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

I fear you will hear more about this from Transport for Wales or, more likely, from the awful contractor they use called Transport Investigations Limited who could send you theor usual threatening letters and seeking an out of court settlement.

I would keep copies of all the tickets you purchased. Did you get the name of the person you spoke to at Cardiff Central, either at the gateline or in the ticket office?

COme back here if you do get a letter from TfW or TIL and we can assist in how to reply.

 

[ahelpinghand]

Welcome to the forum!

I fear you will hear more about this from Transport for Wales or, more likely, from the awful contractor they use called Transport Investigations Limited who could send you theor usual threatening letters and seeking an out of court settlement.

I would keep copies of all the tickets you purchased. Did you get the name of the person you spoke to at Cardiff Central, either at the gateline or in the ticket office?

COme back here if you do get a letter from TfW or TIL and we can assist in how to reply.

Do you think? That’s a shame. Below is the ticket I purchased after the fact, which would have covered my original journey.

Do the letters come by emails? Or come by post? I have been using a guest account on Trainline so wonder how they would even identify me.

also, if they look at my purchase history they will see that I use the same route the whole time and have never had any discrepancies before.

Sadly, I don’t know the names of who I spoke to. Maybe I should go back in at some point and ask.

 

[island]

Having resolved the matter by the sale of a new ticket, it would be quite unreasonable for the railway to seek to prosecute the passenger here.

 

[Hadders]

A guest account isn't anonymous. They still have your email address and I'd have thought that you had to input your address when you entered your credit card details.

Legally speaking, you've comitted a criminal offence by not having a valid ticket when you travelled. It's unfortunate that staff were willing to regularise the situation by selling you a new ticket but then this didn't happen, and the new ticket was purchased a few minutes later. Hopefully what the staff said to you will mean your details won't be passed on but sometimes whaty is said and what is done are different things.

 

[AlterEgo]

Having resolved the matter by the sale of a new ticket, it would be quite unreasonable for the railway to seek to prosecute the passenger here.

Agreed. OP: keep the ticket and write down what has happened, in the meantime.

 

[Hadders]

Having resolved the matter by the sale of a new ticket, it would be quite unreasonable for the railway to seek to prosecute the passenger here.

Agreed. OP: keep the ticket and write down what has happened, in the meantime.

I agree but we're talking about TIL here.

Hopefully the staff will do what they said they would do and nothing more will come of it.

What format was the original ticket - was it a credit card sized ticket like the replacement you bought or was it an e-ticket with a barcode? (I'm assuming it was a CCST ticket as it included London Underground validity). Did you give any contact details to the staff?

 

[ahelpinghand]

I agree but we're talking about TIL here.

Hopefully the staff will do what they said they would do and nothing more will come of it.

What format was the original ticket - was it a credit card sized ticket like the replacement you bought or was it an e-ticket with a barcode? (I'm assuming it was a CCST ticket as it included London Underground validity). Did you give any contact details to the staff?

It was a printed ticket. However, I let them scan the ticket (Cardiff Central to Queen Street) that I had bought and was about to use. So they definitely have an email of mine, and my card.

Do you think it is worth going to the station and checking with staff?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Feb 2025 ==

Having resolved the matter by the sale of a new ticket, it would be quite unreasonable for the railway to seek to prosecute the passenger here.

My worry is that it wasn’t the same man, and that there may be issues with the new ticket that I, nor the man who I dealt with a second time, could foresee. They have no way to contact me and explain as such.

However, I am hoping that because I left the tickets behind(which was an any-time ticket so covered my original journey) that may work in my favour?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Feb 2025 ==

I agree but we're talking about TIL here.

Hopefully the staff will do what they said they would do and nothing more will come of it.

What format was the original ticket - was it a credit card sized ticket like the replacement you bought or was it an e-ticket with a barcode? (I'm assuming it was a CCST ticket as it included London Underground validity). Did you give any contact details to the staff?

Also, I don’t know whether it hurts my case that I accidentally bought a Cardiff Central to Cardiff Queen Street ticket (rather than the other way round). If it got to it, could I argue that I was going to get out at Queen Street but missed the train, and hence decided to leave at Central? I feel like I declared exactly what had happened immediately. I stayed silent and just said, I have a ticket for the wrong day. However, I did let them scan the CQS ticket.

 

[Hadders]

It was a printed ticket. However, I let them scan the ticket (Cardiff Central to Queen Street) that I had bought and was about to use. So they definitely have an email of mine, and my card.

Ah, ok.

Do you think it is worth going to the station and checking with staff?

Personally I wouldn't do this now. It's likely that the report will already be submitted.

My worry is that it wasn’t the same man, and that there may be issues with the new ticket that I, nor the man who I dealt with a second time, could foresee. They have no way to contact me and explain as such.

However, I am hoping that because I left the tickets behind(which was an any-time ticket so covered my original journey) that may work in my favour?

I agree this makes things complicated. As I said upthread if the staff did what they said they were going to do then nothing will come of it but there's no way of knowing what they've done.

Even if you were to track them down and ask them there's nothing you can do at this stage if they tell you they submitted a report.

Hopefully the fact that you immediately took steps to regularise the position will help.

Also, I don’t know whether it hurts my case that I accidentally bought a Cardiff Central to Cardiff Queen Street ticket (rather than the other way round). If it got to it, could I argue that I was going to get out at Queen Street but missed the train, and hence decided to leave at Central? I feel like I declared exactly what had happened immediately. I stayed silent and just said, I have a ticket for the wrong day. However, I did let them scan the CQS ticket.

I thought you said you thought better of using that ticket to get through the barriert so why did you even show it to the member of staff?

 

[ahelpinghand]

Ah, ok.


Personally I wouldn't do this now. It's likely that the report will already be submitted.


I agree this makes things complicated. As I said upthread if the staff did what they said they were going to do then nothing will come of it but there's no way of knowing what they've done.

Even if you were to track them down and ask them there's nothing you can do at this stage if they tell you they submitted a report.

Hopefully the fact that you immediately took steps to regularise the position will help.


I thought you said you thought better of using that ticket to get through the barriert so why did you even show it to the member of staff?

I actually did go back. Turns out the man didn’t pass on my tickets and they already referred to TIL. The individual I spoke to said that he had put in his original email that we tried to buy tickets at the station, but couldn’t. He checked the new ticket I bought and said that they would be able to see my purchase history and that provided everything was in order (it was), that they probably wouldn’t do anything.
They asked to see all my tickets so I showed them that as well. It will be interesting what fact pattern they put down, because I repeated multiple times that I wasn’t trying to claim I was travelling from CQS and no one objected. However, it was the ticket from CC to CQS that they scanned for my details.

 

[Hadders]

Given that your details have been passed on I suspect you’ll be getting a letter from TIL.

Historically they aren’t the easiest company to deal with, often requiring several letters to obtain a satisfactory outcome.

Did you manage to get the name of the member of staff, as I think it will help if you can mention it in your reply to TIL.

 

[ahelpinghand]

Given that your details have been passed on I suspect you’ll be getting a letter from TIL.

Historically they aren’t the easiest company to deal with, often requiring several letters to obtain a satisfactory outcome.

Did you manage to get the name of the member of staff, as I think it will help if you can mention it in your reply to TIL.

Yes, I got the names of the individuals involved. Also wrote it all down.
Do they produce a fact pattern/witness statements? Or, do they require you to go first, confess and then take you to court based on said confession.

 

[Starmill]

However, I let them scan the ticket (Cardiff Central to Queen Street) that I had bought and was about to use.

This is a big mistake. Unfortunately, while you may never have been intending to avoid paying the correct fare, this kind of activity is exactly what they're looking for, because it's exactly what a hypothetical person who were trying to avoid paying for their journey would do.

Whatever you do in future please do not buy a random low-priced ticket that you think will open a ticket gate. It's always suspicious.

 

[ahelpinghand]

This is a big mistake. Unfortunately, while you may never have been intending to avoid paying the correct fare, this kind of activity is exactly what they're looking for, because it's exactly what a hypothetical person who were trying to avoid paying for their journey would do.

Whatever you do in future please do not buy a random low-priced ticket that you think will open a ticket gate. It's always suspicious.

yeah, I get that. I guess what I would say is that I didn’t actually use the ticket to attempt to leave the station. I just provided all my tickets from Havant to London, London to CC and CC to CQS. It’s just that the final one was the only digital ticket so they scanned it then so they could have my details.

 

[Hadders]

Yes, I got the names of the individuals involved. Also wrote it all down.
Do they produce a fact pattern/witness statements? Or, do they require you to go first, confess and then take you to court based on said confession.

What happens next is that TfW, or more likely TIL, will write to you saying that they have received a report, are threatening prosecution but asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed.

It's important that you send a very clear response about what happened on the day. Do not send your reply until you have asked us to proof read it for you. Upload a copy of TfW/TILs letter in this thread (with personal deatils redacted) along with your draft reply and we will be happy to do so.

TfW/TIL will reply saying that they see no reason why it shouldn't proceed to prosecution. Basically you then need to send a rehash of your first response. Only then will they try to see sense.

Most people we assist in cases like this get offered an out of court settlement by TfW/TIL. The thing here is technically you were guilty of an offence but you did regularise the situation by buying another ticket. What you need to do is convice TfW/TIL about what happened.

COme back here when the letter arrives and we can take things from there.

 

[WesternLancer]

yeah, I get that. I guess what I would say is that I didn’t actually use the ticket to attempt to leave the station. I just provided all my tickets from Havant to London, London to CC and CC to CQS. It’s just that the final one was the only digital ticket so they scanned it then so they could have my details.

Without wanting to sound rude I think that now the best thing to do is to stop talking to staff about this.

Wait for a letter or e mail (and also check your spam) but do NOT send a reply to anything before getting your wording checked here. It’s vital that whatever you say is worded correctly in order to prevent you saying something that would be better not said.

People here will help you get your wording as good as it can be.