Which services might call at Rotherham Gateway station?

[Oxfordblues]

In a historical context the main settlement locally was Masbrough (or "Masborough" in railway parlance) and the North Midland Railway built a station there. Only later did the nearby village of Rotherham come to prominence, but Masborough was the main station serving Rotherham for many years.

 

[duffield]

Rotherham to Leeds is an hour, so to get it down to 30 minutes will require the mystical NPR interventions. Somehow I'm not convinced as looking at the maximum speeds on the line much of it is at 100mph already

The XC trains passing through the site of the proposed Rotherham Gateway mainline platforms (between Masborough and Aldwarke Junctions) currently take just over 30 minutes to Leeds with one stop at Wakefield Westgate. No interventions are required, just the new station and the added stop.

 

[Martin23230]

Perhaps I'm being stupid, but what is this sentence supposed to mean?

There's already a station at Parkgate... it's called Rotherham Parkgate! Although it's only served by the tram-train and not the mainline trains. (But Rotherham Central is served by mainline trains today and has been continuously since 1987, so it's odd to claim they're reintroducing them for the first time since the 1980s)

Based on the plans, calling it "at Parkgate" is a bit of a stretch; it's nearly half a mile away from where I would put the actual centre of Parkgate shopping centre, and about the same distance from the Parkgate tram-train stop. I'm not sure it will be very convenient for people getting off the mainline services wanting the shopping centre. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding its intent (I'm not saying that that's it's main purpose, but billing it as "at Parkgate" does sort of imply it's *a* purpose).

While we're talking historical context: Parkgate is the name of the historic village / now suburb north of Rotherham (see Wikipedia). The shopping centre was named after the existing name for the area*. Now while I'd agree this station is even further from the historic centre of Parkgate than the current tram stop, I wouldn't say it's wrong to say this site is "in/at Parkgate" as in north of Rotherham proper. At least it appears to me that most of the site is in the Rawmarsh West ward, just north of the boundary.

But it's irrelevant anyway, no locals would ever confuse the two stations. I guess the tram-train stops will simply be Rotherham Central (for central Rotherham, obviously) - Rotherham Gateway (for the mainline station) - [Rotherham] Parkgate (for the shopping centre).

* Incidentally the same is true of the Meadowhall Centre just down the road.

 

[stevieinselby]

Rotherham to Leeds is an hour, so to get it down to 30 minutes will require the mystical NPR interventions. Somehow I'm not convinced as looking at the maximum speeds on the line much of it is at 100mph already

Rotherham to Leeds is an hour because the stopping train calls at Swinton, Bolton-on-Dearne, Goldthorpe, Thurnscoe, Moorthorpe, Fitzwilliam, Sandall & Agbrigg, Wakefield Westgate and Outwood along the way.
The XC services that call at Wakefield Westgate only take under 35 minutes from Masborough Junction (passing) to Leeds. That's about the same time as it would take from a standing start from Rotherham Parkgateway. No, you probably won't get it quite down to 30 minutes dead, but it should be closer to 30 minutes than 40 without any additional infrastructure upgrades apart from the new station.

 

[lyndhurst25]

I am originally from Rotherham, with family still living there.

I can’t imagine this new Rotherham Gateway being a success. Located in a grim industrial area, further from the town centre and bus station than the old Masborough station ever was. How are passengers supposed to get to the new station? Nobody in their right mind is going to walk, especially in the dark. Take the tram? Having to walk across the car parks from the Midland platforms to the GC platforms, wait for a tram-train to turn up and then travel on to Rotherham Central is going to negate much of the purported journey reduction times to places like Leeds.

I imagine that Meadowhall, with its good road and bus links to much of the town will remain the favourite place to catch TPE and Yorkshire Coast services. It would be good if XC could be persuaded to stop there too, but otherwise a change of trains at Sheffield or Doncaster is no big hassle. As for the “possible direct services to London”, are there serious plans to reintroduce the Leeds to St Pancras service?

 

[Peterthegreat]

I am originally from Rotherham, with family still living there.

I can’t imagine this new Rotherham Gateway being a success. Located in a grim industrial area, further from the town centre and bus station than the old Masborough station ever was. How are passengers supposed to get to the new station? Nobody in their right mind is going to walk, especially in the dark. Take the tram? Having to walk across the car parks from the Midland platforms to the GC platforms, wait for a tram-train to turn up and then travel on to Rotherham Central is going to negate much of the purported journey reduction times to places like Leeds.

I imagine that Meadowhall, with its good road and bus links to much of the town will remain the favourite place to catch TPE and Yorkshire Coast services. It would be good if XC could be persuaded to stop there too, but otherwise a change of trains at Sheffield or Doncaster is no big hassle. As for the “possible direct services to London”, are there serious plans to reintroduce the Leeds to St Pancras service?

Absolutely agree with this. I too am from Rotherham and think this is a vanity project. The reason Masborough closed was through lack of use as numbers at the Central soared on reopening. As you say who is going to walk to Gateway from the town centre?
Meadowhall is only a couple of miles from Rotherham and will be closer for many in the borough (except of course it is in Sheffield).
The local politicians would be better pressing Northern/DfT to reinstate the second Sheffield to Doncaster stopping service - at a stroke this would make many journeys up to half an hour quicker.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Agree with the above posts, this project seems to be driven by ignorant politicians rather than by "railway people" who understand why things are the way they are. It's the same sort of mentality that leads to daft ideas like the Bradford Gateway (or whatever eye-catching name they're pushing for this week).

 

[Grecian 1998]

It seems very unlikely XC could be persuaded to stop there - they don't exactly need to encourage more passengers through the core, and are trying to reduce stops at a number of stations to discourage local hops. Unless a convincing case can be put forward that there are lots of people in Rotherham wanting to travel to Bristol or Newcastle rather than Sheffield or Leeds, I can't see them being keen. They haven't exactly been enthusiastic about stopping trains at Worcestershire Parkway. Granted the circumstances here are slightly different, but I suspect their enthusiasm levels will be similar.

Sheffield - Leeds seems to get mentioned regularly as a section of the XC route which is particularly prone to overcrowding, so stopping trains somewhere where demand for travel to and from those two cities could lead to even more overcrowding doesn't seem sensible until XC's capacity issues are eased. Only 22 years and counting so far.

 

[YorksLad12]

It seems very unlikely XC could be persuaded to stop there - they don't exactly need to encourage more passengers through the core, and are trying to reduce stops at a number of stations to discourage local hops. Unless a convincing case can be put forward that there are lots of people in Rotherham wanting to travel to Bristol or Newcastle rather than Sheffield or Leeds, I can't see them being keen. They haven't exactly been enthusiastic about stopping trains at Worcestershire Parkway. Granted the circumstances here are slightly different, but I suspect their enthusiasm levels will be similar.

Sheffield - Leeds seems to get mentioned regularly as a section of the XC route which is particularly prone to overcrowding, so stopping trains somewhere where demand for travel to and from those two cities could lead to even more overcrowding doesn't seem sensible until XC's capacity issues are eased. Only 22 years and counting so far.

Indeed - XC have only just reinstated all calls at Chesterfield, and they pulled some Wakefield calls over the summer.

More likely that the new Northern Fast service (arriving a mere ten years after it was announced) would call there. TPE might not if they had a choice… but by that time, would South Yorkshire have a say in the local rail network under the devolution plans?

 

[Grimsby town]

Absolutely agree with this. I too am from Rotherham and think this is a vanity project. The reason Masborough closed was through lack of use as numbers at the Central soared on reopening. As you say who is going to walk to Gateway from the town centre?

There are far more rail users now than there were in the 80s and the context has changed quite significantly. The tram train services didn't exist for example. If its not like Central is being proposed for closure as even if heavy rail is diverted away it will still have the tram-train service.

The proposal was originally part of the plan to divert heavy rail services away from Rotherham Central, reducing conflicting movements and converting the current Doncaster stopping services to tram-train. The new station would ensure that the eastern areas of Rotherham were still well served by heavy rail and provide more long distance connections. Freeing up two paths into Sheffield would be absolutely invaluable, so hopefully the station is still part of the wider strategic plan.

I don't really understand the points around how the area currently looks and feels. The point of new railway stations is to facilitate development in an area.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Feb 2025 ==

It seems very unlikely XC could be persuaded to stop there - they don't exactly need to encourage more passengers through the core, and are trying to reduce stops at a number of stations to discourage local hops.

They won't need to be persuaded because the franchise will likely be government owned in 2031 given currently policy. The station is still 6 years from opening so applying today's issues doesn't necessarily hold. I agree there are certainty things that need to be considered but they aren't necessarily show stoppers.

 

[stevieinselby]

It seems very unlikely XC could be persuaded to stop there - they don't exactly need to encourage more passengers through the core, and are trying to reduce stops at a number of stations to discourage local hops. Unless a convincing case can be put forward that there are lots of people in Rotherham wanting to travel to Bristol or Newcastle rather than Sheffield or Leeds, I can't see them being keen. They haven't exactly been enthusiastic about stopping trains at Worcestershire Parkway. Granted the circumstances here are slightly different, but I suspect their enthusiasm levels will be similar.

Sheffield - Leeds seems to get mentioned regularly as a section of the XC route which is particularly prone to overcrowding, so stopping trains somewhere where demand for travel to and from those two cities could lead to even more overcrowding doesn't seem sensible until XC's capacity issues are eased. Only 22 years and counting so far.

Rotherham is a substantial town, with a population of over 100k and almost exactly the same as Wakefield. It's definitely big enough to have a stop on XC services – obviously with Central being on a single-track loop it isn't feasible for the town to get the level of service it merits, but with that limitation removed then I would expect to see substantially improved services – if XC are missing out stops at towns like this because they just can't accommodate the number of passengers who would want to travel then that really does speak to catastrophic strategic mismanagement...

 

[Meerkat]

I am originally from Rotherham, with family still living there.

I can’t imagine this new Rotherham Gateway being a success. Located in a grim industrial area, further from the town centre and bus station than the old Masborough station ever was.

I am not from Rotherham but looking at the map the distance from the bus station and centre is very similar for Masborough and Gateway, and Gateway will be easier for people living to the north and north west of the centre.
I would assume that the buses toward Swinton will go by the new station, and presumably the hope is that the new station will regenerate the surrounding area.

 

[Trainman40083]

I can't see Cross Country ever stopping there. Maybe Northern services such as that from Sheffield to Hull. Maybe TPE to Cleethorpes.

 

[Meerkat]

I can't see Cross Country ever stopping there. Maybe Northern services such as that from Sheffield to Hull. Maybe TPE to Cleethorpes.

Any chance that XC would prefer to stop at Rotherham than Meadowhall; what will the comparitive parking situation be like - enough to overcome the advantage of a neighbouring M1 junction?
Would come down to whether XC want short shopping trips or to concentrate on longer journeys?

 

[Peterthegreat]

Any chance that XC would prefer to stop at Rotherham than Meadowhall; what will the comparitive parking situation be like - enough to overcome the advantage of a neighbouring M1 junction?
Would come down to whether XC want short shopping trips or to concentrate on longer journeys?

XC don't stop at Meadowhall.

 

[Trainman40083]

XC don't stop at Meadowhall.

And indeed, it wasn't that long ago they stopped calling at other stations as the trains were full.

 

[Bevan Price]

Rather than spens £££ (millions) on a new station, would it be much cheaper just to reopen Masborough, which would be much more convenient for the town centre (and bus station) than "new Parkgate" ?

 

[edwin_m]

Rather than spens £££ (millions) on a new station, would it be much cheaper just to reopen Masborough, which would be much more convenient for the town centre (and bus station) than "new Parkgate" ?

The same train can't serve both Masborough and Central, so unless Central was also closed, or at least reduced to tram-train only, the service to many destinations would be split between the two.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Rather than spens £££ (millions) on a new station, would it be much cheaper just to reopen Masborough, which would be much more convenient for the town centre (and bus station) than "new Parkgate" ?

Agree 100%. Reopen Masborough for long distance services, only IF they can be persuaded to stop there. Trains have to slow down anyway for the curve, so less of a time penalty if they stop at Masborough over Gateway. The Masborough end of town is much more likely to be redeveloped (Guest & Chrimes, Millmoor stadium, bus garage, and old nightclub sites) than Parkgate, which is full of established businesses. All that is needed is better connectivity to the town centre for those who cannot or are unwilling to walk - divert existing Rotherham-Sheffield buses, put on a free shuttle bus, or even street tram.

Rotherham Gateway only makes sense if, and could well lead to, Rotherham Central being downgraded to a tram stop.
Problem is that the current tram train is not very good for onward connections at Meadowhall or Sheffield, with it going nearby but not actually to Meadowhall Interchange and Sheffield Midland. Oh, and no through ticketing or cycle carriage.

However, before any of that, my priorities would be -
- increasing the number of trains using the Holmes Chord to serve Rotherham Central. A half hourly Sheffield to Doncaster service via Rotherham Central, preferably with the extra trains alternating to going on towards Liverpool, Hull/Cleethorpes 2 hourly. Double track the Chord if necessary.
- Divert the tram train into Meadowhall Interchange, where it would reverse and go on towards Sheffield. This would give connections Barnsley, Wakefield and Leeds fast, along with any Liverpool/Hull/Cleethorpes services not running via Rotherham Central.
- through ticketing, allowing tram train use between Rotherham-Meadowhall-Sheffield to be combined with onward rail journeys.

 

[IanXC]

Rotherham Central already has an hourly Northern service to Leeds, taking a shade over an hour.
The faster Northern services between Sheffield and Leeds don't run through Rotherham (Central or Masborough) but go up through Barnsley.
But XC services do take just over 30 minutes from Masborough Junction to Leeds, so if they did call at Rotherham Parkway that would cut the journey time down from just over an hour (on Northern) to just over half an hour.

The faster Northern Sheffield - Leeds service being referenced is via Masborough and Wakefield Westgate and starts in December.

The thing that puzzles me in all this is that Gateway seems to be proposed to only have tram train platforms on the Central line, I'd always presumed that there would be both as per Rotherham Central. If there were the service pattern plausibly looks quite reasonable:

Sheffield - Adwick stopper
Sheffield - Leeds stopper
Sheffield - York stopper
Sheffield - Scarborough
Sheffield - Leeds Northern express
Liverpool - Cleethorpes

I don't think XC's via Leeds service is realistic, but the via Doncaster service is probably where the realistic chance is (unlikely as it probably is).

 

[Meerkat]

Rather than spens £££ (millions) on a new station, would it be much cheaper just to reopen Masborough, which would be much more convenient for the town centre (and bus station) than "new Parkgate" ?

Why is Masborough more convenient? It isn’t any further and has less space for parking.
More space for redevelopment in the Gateway area as it is currently pretty low density.
As I assume Gateway takes Masborough off the table maybe they could finally remove the platforms and ease the corner out for higher speeds

 

[LLivery]

Not only is their likely to be regeneration, but an urban extension on around 50% of the fields between the planned station and the area Greasborough. 2,5k homes, roughly equalling 5,7k extra residents (2.3 average household occupancy in UK) having this as their local station. With the government Housing Strategy coming, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a push for those figures are increased.

While XC might not call there in today's context, I would be surprised if at least a few strategically timed services don't following a eventual fleet improvement and the housing development is complete

 

[gerryuk]

Was there not a plan to divert some x country trains on to the freight line avoiding Sheffield Midland? I seem to recall this being mentioned when this vanity scheme first serviced.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Was there not a plan to divert some x country trains on to the freight line avoiding Sheffield Midland? I seem to recall this being mentioned when this vanity scheme first serviced.

I hope not!

 

[Trainman40083]

Was there not a plan to divert some x country trains on to the freight line avoiding Sheffield Midland? I seem to recall this being mentioned when this vanity scheme first serviced.

Not sure many crews even sign the Beighton line now.

 

[Grimsby town]

Was there not a plan to divert some x country trains on to the freight line avoiding Sheffield Midland? I seem to recall this being mentioned when this vanity scheme first serviced.

That was a plan related to HS2 and NPR. The plan was for Sheffield to get 4 trains per hour to Leeds partially using HS2 and some services to York using HS2. As a result the CrossCountry services couldn't be accommodated via Sheffield.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Feb 2025 ==

Rather than spens £££ (millions) on a new station, would it be much cheaper just to reopen Masborough, which would be much more convenient for the town centre (and bus station) than "new Parkgate" ?

There's not enough space at Masborough for platforms that could accommodate the longer intercity trains which is part of the reason for the station.

 

[Snow1964]

Wrong thread

 

[Peterthegreat]

A new publication by Liverpool region Combined Authority with Liverpool Gateway

Laying the tracks to growth: Liverpool-Manchester Railway plan could unlock £90bn economic boost

<p>The tracks are warming up for Liverpool to Manchester Railway, read more about what to expect</p>

www.liverpoolcityregion-ca.gov.uk

Liverpool is a fair way from Rotherham.
Perhaps a new thread would be better?

 

[Masbroughlad]

Plans for new railway station in Rotherham take a step forward

Rotherham Gateway project can now move into design and planning stages after funding boost.

www.bbc.co.uk

Plans for the new Rotherham Gateway railway station have taken a major step forward after regional leaders approved more than £11m in development funding.

The money from the South Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority (SYMCA) will allow Rotherham Council to push ahead with detailed design work, land assembly and preparation for procurement.

More news on Rotherham Gateway.

Does anybody know what the deciding factor between 2 and 4 platforms is, please?

4 suggests maybe local and intercity trains? And these seem in addition to a tram-train stop?

I am hoping this is a really positive step for the town.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Plans for new railway station in Rotherham take a step forward

Rotherham Gateway project can now move into design and planning stages after funding boost.

www.bbc.co.uk

More news on Rotherham Gateway.

Does anybody know what the deciding factor between 2 and 4 platforms is, please?

4 suggests maybe local and intercity trains? And these seem in addition to a tram-train stop?

I am hoping this is a really positive step for the town.

Presumably the 1tph TPE service maybe CrossCountry too (is that 1.5tph for XC or 2?). How many Northern services pass?