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Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern

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Geeves

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There are no plans for them to be removed from service any time soon. If anything they will likely outlive every other British Rail product at Northern!
 
pokemonsuper9

pokemonsuper9

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Geeves said:
There are no plans for them to be removed from service any time soon. If anything they will likely outlive every other British Rail product at Northern!
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Really, are they not going to be replaced alongside the 150s and 156s they are frequently replaced by already?

The amount of bi-mode carriages in Phase 1 of Northern's new stock tender far exceeds the number of 150s, 155s and 156s they have, something surely has to go with them?
 
G

Geeves

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pokemonsuper9 said:
Really, are they not going to be replaced alongside the 150s and 156s they are frequently replaced by already?

The amount of bi-mode carriages in Phase 1 of Northern's new stock tender far exceeds the number of 150s, 155s and 156s they have, something surely has to go with them?
Click to expand...

Unless I have missed it they don't seem to be on at least phase one fleet renewal, maybe we will see them when the 158 replacement contract comes up?
 
Nym

Nym

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GhostManDN91 said:
From what I'm hearing Northern drivers and possibly guards aswell will be glad to see the back of the 769s.
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Guards doesn't surprise me, with Northern units not having any door controls in the cabs, there's no way to operate them without going near passengers, which can introduce risk on some of the more spicy services.
 
G

Geeves

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448 made it out into service today how ever it failed due to engine issues this afternoon and is waiting for a driver to take it back off the naughty step from Springs Branch to Allerton

424 - Springs Branch
431 - Kilmarnock
434 - Out
442 - Allerton
448 - Springs Branch (Later Allerton)
450 - Out
456 - Out
458 - Allerton
 
TT-ONR-NRN

TT-ONR-NRN

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Ribbleman said:
Northern’s 8 x Class 769 units are all going for C6 exams at Brodies’ in Kilmarnock. In order to provide cover during the next year or so, Porterbrook are providing Northern with two of the former TfW sets. Things seem to be running late, as only one of those sets has as of yet arrived at Crewe IEMD to have a pantograph fitted, transformer serviced or replaced and test programme carried out before handing over to Northern.
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Might I ask the number of the two TfW sets going over please?
Edit: 421/452 it looks like, no worries, ta.
 
G

Geeves

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769456 at rest after making it only from Newton Heath to Victoria this morning. Unfortunately broken and waiting for the brains from Allerton to attend.

448 is currently having issues at Westhoughton.

1005 - 448 - is NOW OOS

424 - Out
431 - Kilmarnock
434 - Out
442 - Allerton
448 - Out
450 - Allerton
456 - Victoria
458 - Allerton
 

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pokemonsuper9

pokemonsuper9

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As much as I was interested and impressed by the 769s when they were introduced (I was only just getting used to spotting at the time), they just feel like they're barely worth their weight in scrap.

4 769s went out this morning, and all 4 of them have broken down.

There are 6 769 diagrams on a Saturday (allocations from RTT):
AN 291 - Allerton -> 06:08 at Manchester Vic to Southport - Today had 769434, has broken down at Bolton, then ran 15 late to Wigan, being replaced by 156461, which has had to split from 156428, short forming both.
AN 292 - Springs Branch -> 06:07 at Wigan to Stalybridge - Sprinters (156418+156459) - now 156459 split away to replace 769448
AN 293 - Springs Branch -> 06:19 at Wigan to Southport - 769424 (has gone missing from RTT, later on diagram replaced by 150
AN 294 - Springs Branch -> 07:05 at Southport to Oxford Road - 769448, broke down at Westhoughton as per above, replaced by 156459.
AN 295 - Allerton -> 06:32 at Manchester Vic to Southport - Sprinters (150121+150124), now only 150121, 124 had to split to cover for 769424.
AN 296 - Newton Heath -> 06:18 at Manchester Vic to Stalybridge - 769456 broke down before even entering service, now replaced by 150101, which had to split from 156405
AN 297 and AN 298 are both for units to just sit on Allerton for exams.

The Southport line has 8 diagrams
AN 291 to 296, as well as NH 415 / NH 325 (15x together) and NH 405 / NH 427 (15x together).
And 4 of them have broken down, leaving the other 4 cut in half to cover.

Diagrams as per this FOI request.
 
S

Soft Hands

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Gricer99 said:
Shocking level of performance. Is there a common reason for breakdown?
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No specific details of these incidents but IIRC Network Rail won't accept a situation where only one 769 is active, as, if that one blows up as well, recovery and line clearance could be very problematic. Does anyone know if this is still the case? TIA
 
G

Geeves

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Soft Hands said:
No specific details of these incidents but IIRC Network Rail won't accept a situation where only one 769 is active, as, if that one blows up as well, recovery and line clearance could be very problematic. Does anyone know if this is still the case? TIA
Click to expand...

Yes that's still the case, if only one remains it gets took out of service even it's okay to carry on. The issue with 456 this morning was when the driver set off to leave for Stalybridge at departure time it simply would not drive in that direction. It would only power the opposite direction! It's a new one for us at Victoria including the fitter!

The other problems were the diesel engines, and I'm unsure what the other two failed on but none made it past midday. In 456s defence it was fixed but I don't think it came back into passenger service
 
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M60lad

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Not to sure which one but I noticed a 769 stabled at Newton Heath last night at about 20:25
 
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Richard Scott

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pokemonsuper9 said:
So it was refusing to go West for about 12 hours.
Incredible.
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Imagine it was refusing to go West until someone fixed it?
Had a few DB ICE trains do this, tad more inconvenient on a long distance journey.
 
B

Bikeman78

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pokemonsuper9 said:
As much as I was interested and impressed by the 769s when they were introduced (I was only just getting used to spotting at the time), they just feel like they're barely worth their weight in scrap.

4 769s went out this morning, and all 4 of them have broken down.

There are 6 769 diagrams on a Saturday (allocations from RTT):
AN 291 - Allerton -> 06:08 at Manchester Vic to Southport - Today had 769434, has broken down at Bolton, then ran 15 late to Wigan, being replaced by 156461, which has had to split from 156428, short forming both.
AN 292 - Springs Branch -> 06:07 at Wigan to Stalybridge - Sprinters (156418+156459) - now 156459 split away to replace 769448
AN 293 - Springs Branch -> 06:19 at Wigan to Southport - 769424 (has gone missing from RTT, later on diagram replaced by 150
AN 294 - Springs Branch -> 07:05 at Southport to Oxford Road - 769448, broke down at Westhoughton as per above, replaced by 156459.
AN 295 - Allerton -> 06:32 at Manchester Vic to Southport - Sprinters (150121+150124), now only 150121, 124 had to split to cover for 769424.
AN 296 - Newton Heath -> 06:18 at Manchester Vic to Stalybridge - 769456 broke down before even entering service, now replaced by 150101, which had to split from 156405
AN 297 and AN 298 are both for units to just sit on Allerton for exams.

The Southport line has 8 diagrams
AN 291 to 296, as well as NH 415 / NH 325 (15x together) and NH 405 / NH 427 (15x together).
And 4 of them have broken down, leaving the other 4 cut in half to cover.

Diagrams as per this FOI request.
Click to expand...
This simply backs up my theory that overhauling some 150s instead would provide a more reliable train. Probably cheaper in the long run too.
 
D

DannyMich2018

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Bikeman78 said:
This simply backs up my theory that overhauling some 150s instead would provide a more reliable train. Probably cheaper in the long run too.
Click to expand...
Or in the next year or so take some of the TFW 158s on lease the 769s can then be towed away for scrap. The 769s entered service in back in May 2021 with a few before of testing so no one cab say they have teething troubles now.
 
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