Peaks in East Anglia

[Wivenswold]

Just noted in the August 1974 edition of Railway Observer that 18 x Class 45/0s were expected to replace 47/0s on Norwich to London services.
"45006 arrived at Ipswich on 23rd June" and on 1st July 1974 it ran in service on one return trip from Liverpool Street and Norwich.

I'd never heard of this before and it surprised me. Peaks in East Anglia were pretty rare, we nearly had a fleet of them at Stratford. Possibly ending up with silver roofs!
I know GEML drivers were quite attached to their 47s noting them to be a real step-up from the 40s and 37s that came before. I assume the feedback from the few drivers who tested 45006 wasn't great and the plan was dropped.

 

[Harpo]

I’ve seen it mentioned somewhere that 45006 was a known poor performer which was why it was sent.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

There is a photo of said Peak sitting outside A shed at Stratford depot in D. Brennand's "London's East End Traction - steam, diesel & electric" (Booklaw/2019) top of page 76. The performance issue is also mentioned, it losing time on both Down and Up runs.

 

[Harpo]

So far as I can recall, I think that March were the only Anglia depot that officially signed peaks which occasionally reached Harwich via Bury including at least one instance on the Manchester - Parkeston boat train.

Elsewhere, D18 worked a Bedford to Southend Central on 28/7/68, jobs that were more usually a 24/25/27.

Peaks appeared on GN diversions via Cambridge and no doubt got to Norwich on passenger jobs too??

Otherwise, yes they were rare on passenger.

 

[Magdalia]

So far as I can recall, I think that March were the only Anglia depot that officially signed peaks which occasionally reached Harwich via Bury including at least one instance on the Manchester - Parkeston boat train.

Class 45s very occasionally got to Cambridge and Norwich on passenger trains in the 1980s, as you say only on turns from the March direction with March drivers.

Peaks appeared on GN diversions via Cambridge

Class 46s were occasional visitors to Cambridge on Buffet Expresses in the 1970s. I suspect that most if not all of the Gateshead class 46s worked a Buffet Express to Cambridge at least once. And yes they passed through on GN diversions too.

 

[Class15]

According to Mr Brennand (in London’s East End Traction), 45006 was indeed the worst member of the class, and was sent down to the Great Eastern for specifically that reason.

 

[Helvellyn]

According to Mr Brennand (in London’s East End Traction), 45006 was indeed the worst member of the class, and was sent down to the Great Eastern for specifically that reason.

So presumably the LMR didn't want to lose 18 Peaks to the ER. Is it known where the displaced 47s were due to go?

 

[Taunton]

Class 46s were occasional visitors to Cambridge on Buffet Expresses in the 1970s. I suspect that most if not all of the Gateshead class 46s worked a Buffet Express to Cambridge at least once. And yes they passed through on GN diversions too.

Because on the couple of occasions that I got the Cambridge Buffet Express in the 1970s it was always hauled by a Gateshead class 46, I always thought these were standard power for it.

I think we discussed this before ...

March/Whitemoor (which I regard as East Anglia) seemed in those times to be a standard destination for pioneer Peaks 1-10, on freights from Toton.

 

[Magdalia]

So presumably the LMR didn't want to lose 18 Peaks to the ER. Is it known where the displaced 47s were due to go?

45006 was not an LMR loco, it was based at Holbeck at the time, and it would mainly have been used on the ex Midland routes from Leeds.

One possibility is a straight swap between Holbeck and Stratford, giving Holbeck a fleet of class 47s that it could use interchangeably on ECML, Settle and Carlisle and South West services.

Because on the couple of occasions that I got the Cambridge Buffet Express in the 1970s it was always hauled by a Gateshead class 46, I always thought these were standard power for it.

Standard Buffet Express traction in the 1970s was class 31s, with a few class 47 diagrams. The "exotic" traction was usually on the 1130 down/1330 up, which was a Kings Cross crew. Nearly all of the class 46s were on this turn.

 

[Taunton]

Standard Buffet Express traction in the 1970s was class 31s, with a few class 47 diagrams. The "exotic" traction was usually on the 1130 down/1330 up, which was a Kings Cross crew. Nearly all of the class 46s were on this turn.

Indeed that would have been the service I would have taken, to go on later in the afternoon from London.

 

[lordbusiness]

Living in Huntingdon in the 70s Peterborough, Cambridge, and March were regular locations for a day trip on Saturdays and School Holidays.
I don't recall seeing many 45s- the odd one stabled at March every now and then, but not often and again, I can't recall ever seeing one on a passenger turn.
A quick look in my 1978 locoshed book (I was 13!) that has somehow survived many clearouts and house moves shows not many 45/0s, so they can't have been very common and would certainly have caused a bit of excitement.
Gateshead 46s were pretty regular on the ECML through Peterborough/ Huntingdon obviously.
44s seemed to have a fairly regular turn (Speedlink?) to March on weekdays, I guess from Toton which IIRC were out and back as we used to see them twice, late morning and and returning late afternoon. Sadly whenever I saw them it was often the same ones as I only ever saw three- two of which are still around!

 

[eastwestdivide]

44s seemed to have a fairly regular turn (Speedlink?) to March

Probably not Speedlink, as the 44s were vacuum-only and Speedlink was air-braked.

 

[Magdalia]

March/Whitemoor (which I regard as East Anglia) seemed in those times to be a standard destination for pioneer Peaks 1-10, on freights from Toton.

44s seemed to have a fairly regular turn (Speedlink?) to March on weekdays, I guess from Toton which IIRC were out and back as we used to see them twice, late morning and and returning late afternoon.

Probably not Speedlink, as the 44s were vacuum-only and Speedlink was air-braked.

In the 1970s Speedlink was in its infancy, and there was still a network of traditional wagon load partially fitted/unfitted class 8 freights that ran between the major marshalling yards. The Toton-Whitemoor service was one of these, and D1-10/44001-010 did work them fairly frequently.

Until the 1980s March and Whitemoor were effectively the East Anglian border from a rail operations perspective. That particularly applied to freight, only changing when the Joint Line closed in 1982, followed by the run down and closure of March depot.

 

[Harpo]

Until the 1980s March and Whitemoor were effectively the East Anglian border from a rail operations perspective.

With Temple Mills its twin for traffic from the London, the south and west.

There were also trunk moves such as coal from Whitemoor to Temple Mills which threw up interesting traction including 20s as, again, by then they were a March-only class in East Anglia.

 

[Magdalia]

With Temple Mills its twin for traffic from the London, the south and west.

There were also trunk moves such as coal from Whitemoor to Temple Mills which threw up interesting traction including 20s as, again, by then they were a March-only class in East Anglia.

I used to see the Whitemoor-Temple Mills trains passing through Cambridge in the 1970s.

By then there was not much coal. The big Whitemoor-Temple Mills coal flows finished in 1966. A lot of that was the switch to natural gas and the closure of the big gas works in East London such as Beckton and Angel Road. The remaining big coal flows from the north to London went via the Midland Main Line.

There was an overnight Whitemoor-Temple Mills came back as 0600 Temple-Mills Whitemoor and that was the job where March drivers occasionally took class 20s to Temple Mills, but I don't remember class 45s being used on it.

 

[Harpo]

There was an overnight Whitemoor-Temple Mills came back as 0600 Temple-Mills Whitemoor and that was the job where March drivers occasionally took class 20s to Temple Mills, but I don't remember class 45s being used on it.

Yes - Remember seeing 20s on that in the small hours at Stratford circa '81.

 

[Class15]

Yes - Remember seeing 20s on that in the small hours at Stratford circa '81.

Out of curiosity - why would it have passed Stratford? Did Temple Mills have an issue accessing it from the north at the time?

 

[Harpo]

Out of curiosity - why would it have passed Stratford? Did Temple Mills have an issue accessing it from the north at the time?

It ran down south through Stratford, around the teardrop and back north towards the mills. I did wonder if it was the inward or return working.

 

[Falcon1200]

There was an overnight Whitemoor-Temple Mills came back as 0600 Temple-Mills Whitemoor and that was the job where March drivers occasionally took class 20s to Temple Mills, but I don't remember class 45s being used on it.

For two years, 1978-80, I worked at Harlow Town on the Cambridge Main Line, and while my detailed notes are long gone I do have a record of locos I saw passing through - Which include just two Peaks, 45048 and 45057.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

It ran down south through Stratford, around the teardrop and back north towards the mills. I did wonder if it was the inward or return working.

If it ran round via Channelsea Jn and High Meads, may have been something in the consist needed to be a certain way round, or may be some congestion at T/Mills on the day?

 

[midland1]

The class 44s D1-10 were put on Toton - March workings because the March shedmaster used to pinch locos sending the arriving crew back on service trains. As no March crews had signed for the class 44s he had to send them straight back to Toton. Other locos like class 45s he would hang on to.

 

[Harpo]

The class 44s D1-10 were put on Toton - March workings because the March shedmaster used to pinch locos sending the arriving crew back on service trains. As no March crews had signed for the class 44s he had to send them straight back to Toton. Other locos like class 45s he would hang on to.

A popular inter-regional game in its day. I’ve known loads including a 45 from Wellingboro relieved at Acton by waiting Bristol men, a WR 50 relieved at Willesden by Bescot men, an Oxford - Bescot light engine (class 40) diverted to Paddington, and a stabled WR 31 stolen from Acton yard on an LM controller’s orders after yet another LM loco was remanned there.

A popular York control move was to dig itself out of the 5H17 by demanding locos from Stratford. GE control had a Thomas & friends cavalcade on the wall captioned ‘They’ve been ordered to the GN!’

 

[Taunton]

A popular inter-regional game in its day.

Possibly the experts were the Scottish Region hanging on to any Class 47, which would disappear there for days. I used to regularly in the 1970s see an about 0800 from Glasgow to Aberdeen depart from Queen Street, it usually had one from all over; Tinsley, Crewe or even Landore. Same seen elsewhere, at places like Stranraer or Inverness. In fairness the ScR didn't have any of their own.

 

[Helvellyn]

Possibly the experts were the Scottish Region hanging on to any Class 47, which would disappear there for days. I used to regularly in the 1970s see an about 0800 from Glasgow to Aberdeen depart from Queen Street, it usually had one from all over; Tinsley, Crewe or even Landore. Same seen elsewhere, at places like Stranraer or Inverness. In fairness the ScR didn't have any of their own.

I wonder if anyone was ever mischievous enough to send a cheeky postcard to a depot after borrowing a loco.

Greetings from Inverness

Weather cold, fuel lovely. Having some great days out and thinking of heading to Aberdeen tonorrow. Love 47xxx

 

[Harpo]

I wonder if anyone was ever mischievous enough to send a cheeky postcard to a depot after borrowing a loco.

Greetings from Inverness

Weather cold, fuel lovely. Having some great days out and thinking of heading to Aberdeen tonorrow. Love 47xxx

The only greeting an owning depot got was a new entry in the fault book with ‘FHD’ (for home depot) written afterwards.