Full and standing.

[Drsatan]

The difference is that the South has never had to suffer crowded Class 142 Pacer Uniits......or any Class 142 Pacer units at all:

Unfortunately, FGW has 7 142s used around Exeter and 8 143s, divided between Exeter depot and St Phillips Marsh, so the south isn't entirely immune from pacers. One 143 even travels all the way from Exeter St Davids to Cardiff Central and back in a day

 

[Yew]

Because half the time you get an earful, and no back up from the train crew (if there is any). On trains where cycle storage is in the vestibule, you get an earful if you ask someone to swap sides so you can move and not block the doors at the nex tstop.

Plus, you can never be quite sure where the cycle storage is going to be - and if it's on a longer train, you don't have time to walk up and down looking for it after the train arrives!

I consistantly get the wrong end of the train 100% of the time. Okay its onlya 2 car sprinter/pacer, Imagine how bad it would be on alonger train (maybe a HST?)

 

[HST Power]

I consistantly get the wrong end of the train 100% of the time. Okay its onlya 2 car sprinter/pacer, Imagine how bad it would be on alonger train (maybe a HST?)

Don't they mark them out? Surely that would make obvious sense. All you have to do is add a bicycle symbol on the side.

 

[stut]

Don't they mark them out? Surely that would make obvious sense. All you have to do is add a bicycle symbol on the side.

Certainly not on the routes I travel on. Even when you've a fair idea what the unit's going to be, there's no guarantee which way round it's going to be, and you don't get the chance to run from one end of a 4-car unit to the other when it stops!

 

[jon0844]

Cycles are another issuie on full and standing trains as the Cyclist often wont ask passengers sitting in the flip down seats in the bike space to vacate the area prefering to stand with the bike in the doorway or the aisle causing an obstruction

I don't go to/from Cambridge or King's Lynn that often - but sometimes I go in the summer. Me and the wife happened to go Cambridge just recently and because of the area, both popular with cyclists and lots of areas to walk/cycle (some of the smaller stations) I do wonder why FCC doesn't do anything about the number of cyclists that can board and alight anywhere between King's Lynn and Hitchin (after that, it seems to empty out and then you get the chavs coming on with their loud music!!). When the cyclists come on, they often come on as a group - as if they're part of a cycling club. That can mean 3 or 4 bikes in every vestibule on a 4-car train (or perhaps 1 or 2 coaches). The only way to get off is by them taking off their bikes to let you off then coming back on.

Some will move and apologise. Others simply like to show that they're eco-warriors doing their bit for the environment and you are a mere peasant without your two wheels, so tough luck!

There's no point in pointing out the dangers as they'd just laugh at you, and say you were being pathetic, 'get a life' etc - but where are the staff when this happens?

As for buggies - well there's another thread (or two, or three) on this here where I've already made my feelings known. When a young mum orders two elderly people out of the 'buggy area' (i.e. wheelchair area) then you know it's bad.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Unfortunately, FGW has 7 142s used around Exeter and 8 143s, divided between Exeter depot and St Phillips Marsh, so the south isn't entirely immune from pacers. One 143 even travels all the way from Exeter St Davids to Cardiff Central and back in a day

I have the greatest respect for your area which I would always call the South-West and I know that your have these type of units, going back to the days of the Skippers, with their GWR chocolate and cream livery.

The South that I referred to is the area that the national weather forecasters refer to when they say..."and here in the South-East"

 

[HST Power]

Certainly not on the routes I travel on. Even when you've a fair idea what the unit's going to be, there's no guarantee which way round it's going to be, and you don't get the chance to run from one end of a 4-car unit to the other when it stops!

I'm aware they don't mark them (at least not to my knowledge) I just thought it would be quite useful if they did. When train services divide, some carriages have automated annoucements inside saying 'this carriage is for Cambridge', so perhaps an annoucement could be made to instruct passengers with bikes/prams how to transfer to the nearest cycle carriage. Alternatively, the cycle carriages could always be at the front/rear of the train for better convienence. The departure boards indicate how many carriages a train has, and I'm sure they could add on something like 'Passengers with bicycles please board on coach five.'

 

[thefab444]

The South that I referred to is the area that the national weather forecasters refer to when they say..."and here in the South-East"

So what do you call the bit in between? The South Centre? Hampshire, Dorset, the Isle of Wight and parts of Wiltshire, Surrey and Sussex are not really culturally, geographically or economically in the South West or the South East.

We had the sense to conjure up some myth about Pacers being dangerous over Third Rail lines.

 

[Anon Mouse]

So what do you call the bit in between? The South Centre? Hampshire, Dorset, the Isle of Wight and parts of Wiltshire, Surrey and Sussex are not really culturally, geographically or economically in the South West or the South East.

We had the sense to conjure up some myth about Pacers being dangerous over Third Rail lines.

Pacers often pass over 3rd rail lines, indeed there is a small section of track where Pacers bounce along every day where in addition the the 3rd rail there is also OLE!

 

[thefab444]

Pacers often pass over 3rd rail lines, indeed there is a small section of track where Pacers bounce along every day where in addition the the 3rd rail there is also OLE!

Things are a bit different up north.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

So what do you call the bit in between? The South Centre? Hampshire, Dorset, the Isle of Wight and parts of Wiltshire, Surrey and Sussex are not really culturally, geographically or economically in the South West or the South East

I am so very pleased that you have made this posting. I totally agree with everything that you have said. It is the "mind-set" of the national weather forecasters that I have highlighted....not any beliefs of mine.:roll:

In the minds of the national weather forecasters, "The South East" covers all these areas.....they never just refer to "The South", producing vast areas in their weather maps of "that region". They seem to go as far west as Wiltshire and heaven knows how far north and east. What a strange geographical world it is that they live in.:roll:

We do not let matters like this go un-noticed "here in the North-West" to use their own phraseology and you will find that the "London" mentality is oh-so-condescending. They refer to "The North" which can mean anywhere from Cheshire up to Cape Wrath.

The more services that eventually relocate from the "London" and the Home Counties (how I hate that phrase) to other parts of Britain, the better it will be.

 

[thefab444]

We do not let matters like this go un-noticed "here in the North-West" to use their own phraseology and you will find that the "London" mentality is oh-so-condescending. They refer to "The North" which can mean anywhere from Cheshire up to Cape Wrath.

The stereotypes used by people living down here do not favour the North West I'm afraid.

 

[Anon Mouse]

Things are a bit different up north.

that is true!

 

[trainophile]

Just catching up on this thread, and thinking that surely the problem with buggies having to be folded is that there is usually a child in the contraption, who would then need holding or seating, and if the train is already crowded this might not be an option, especially on a longer journey.

I don't object to buggies if they occupy the designated space, but I do get annoyed when the mums want to sit and chat so park their buggies across the aisle, forcing people to climb over them.

 

[jon0844]

A baby takes up a lot less room than one of the many buggies I see on trains. When a child is a little older, buggies can be folded up and often placed in the overhead luggage racks but more and more parents seem to want a buggy that resembles an X5!

Folding the buggy on the train may be tricky if the train is already busy, but I am sure that in days gone by, people folded them before boarding? Or maybe I'm wrong and they've always expected to get people to move for them - even if they perhaps have to get off the train (a mum is clearly a higher priority than someone on their own, especially if they don't have children*).

* This is what I've heard when someone asks someone with a buggy to move or fold the buggy. 'Do you have children?' is then asked as if that makes a difference!

 

[WestCoast]

The stereotypes used by people living down here do not favour the North West I'm afraid.

I think most people in the North West really couldn't care less about that, just reaffirms certain "stuck-up" stereotypes! I really can't be doing with snobbery. OK, it might not be as rich in places, but the North West has vibrant changing cities, some beautiful and breath-taking countryside (not just "pleasant") such as The Lake District and it can be "posh" - just look at the "Cheshire set" in their mansions.

What Paul Sidorczuk is alluding to is the notion of a a divide in rolling stock quality between South Wales, South West England, North West and North East England and the rest of the country. When we hear news reports about how awful 450s are, it is very funny considering how poor quality and uncomfortable some of our rolling stock is. Pacers can be used on routes up to 2h10 (e.g. Lancaster to Leeds) and even more...

Having lived in Lymington for 18 months when I was younger, yes, the place was quite wealthy but beyond that, I wasn't all that impressed! Well, the slammers were a novelty...

Getting back on topic, buggies can be a pain when they appear at busy times. It's also rather difficult to get a buggy on a pacer, due to the steps. When you have several buggies on a train, the congestion soon appears. I understand the need for people with young kids to use buggies on public transport - but some of the stock is wholly unsuited to their access and storage requirements.

 

[thefab444]

I think most people in the North West really couldn't care less about that, just reaffirms certain "stuck-up" stereotypes! I really can't be doing with snobbery. OK, it might not be as rich in places, but the North West has vibrant changing cities, some beautiful and breath-taking countryside (not just "pleasant") such as The Lake District and it can be "posh" - just look at the "Cheshire set" in their mansions.

The stereotype rarely looks beyond Liverpool, Manchester, Burnley etc. in the same way the North Western stereotype of the South and South east rarely goes beyond Kent and the Surrey commuter belt.

To be honest, Pacers aside, the rolling stock you have isn't really that bad - there's no reason why 150s, 156s and 158s need to be dreadful inside, a good refurbishment (not just changing the seat moquette) and decent maintenance regime would solve some of these problems.

As a complete aside, this thread demonstrates why pillaging SWT's 158 fleet for a bit of extra capacity up north would be a bad idea - we need the stock down here. The service the OP mentioned is booked formed of a 9 coach 159 unit. I'm in favour of any form of capacity improvement for the north, but it should not be to the detriment of passengers in the south east.

 

[WestCoast]

The stereotype rarely looks beyond Liverpool, Manchester, Burnley etc. in the same way the North Western stereotype of the South and South east rarely goes beyond Kent and the Surrey commuter belt.

Well, maybe, but I'm very open minded about places. The South West and South East mean two very different things - generally, people in "the North" are more positive about the former of the two.

Liverpool and Manchester might not be everyone's cup of tea, the city centres of Manchester and Liverpool are unrecognisably modern and smart nowadays. They both have their fair share of good and bad areas, just like London has (and the 'bad' areas are very grim and 'good' areas are often completely unaffordable for SE England average earners). That's one reason (there are others, of course) why so many are forced to "commute in" to London and do not choose to live there.

To be honest, Pacers aside, the rolling stock you have isn't really that bad - there's no reason why 150s, 156s and 158s need to be dreadful inside, a good refurbishment (not just changing the seat moquette) and decent maintenance regime would solve some of these problems.

Yeah, well the problem is Northern has 91 Pacers, hence why so many (often inappropriate) services have to be operated by them. The fleet on the North West side of Northern mostly retains bus seats and "Merseytravel" refurbishments (which have rock hard 'seats').

All the rest can be sorted out. 150s aren't bad, some of the "refurbishments" they were given by the likes of First North Western have made them cramped and unpleasant. 153s and 155s aren't bad either, they could be brought up to a better standard. 156s and 158s, even without a major refurbishment, are luxurious by our standards, 333s are fantastic! 150s, 153s, 155s, 156s and 321s could be great trains with a SWT-style makeover...

Even so, you take out the Pacers and services collapse. It all stems from the ridiculous notion of the Northern franchise being "zero-growth". It's been nothing of the sort, with figures rising yearly. Many object to LM getting preferential treatment over Northern when it comes to stock. The pacer problem is effectively being ignored, while even more cast-offs head Northern's way (still waiting). FGW's 142s are going to replace the 3 temporary 180s.

I know the 319s (or more 323s from LM) are supposedly coming after the Lancashire electrification programme is complete. They are cast-offs too, albeit much welcomed. I hope they have a decent refurbishment.

 

[tbtc]

this thread demonstrates why pillaging SWT's 158 fleet for a bit of extra capacity up north would be a bad idea - we need the stock down here. The service the OP mentioned is booked formed of a 9 coach 159 unit. I'm in favour of any form of capacity improvement for the north, but it should not be to the detriment of passengers in the south east.

I've argued in favour of electrifying the "diesel" parts of the old Southern Region several times (ahead of my own town), partly for that reason - those nine coach units would be very welcome here (it may be easier to get rid of our Pacers by electrifying your lines and getting your Sprinters than building a case for electrification of Pacer lines up here).

However, the DMU on the Lymington route could be moved here a bit easier...

 

[12CSVT]

I don't go to/from Cambridge or King's Lynn that often - but sometimes I go in the summer. Me and the wife happened to go Cambridge just recently and because of the area, both popular with cyclists and lots of areas to walk/cycle (some of the smaller stations) I do wonder why FCC doesn't do anything about the number of cyclists that can board and alight anywhere between King's Lynn and Hitchin (after that, it seems to empty out and then you get the chavs coming on with their loud music!!). When the cyclists come on, they often come on as a group - as if they're part of a cycling club. That can mean 3 or 4 bikes in every vestibule on a 4-car train (or perhaps 1 or 2 coaches). The only way to get off is by them taking off their bikes to let you off then coming back on.

Some will move and apologise. Others simply like to show that they're eco-warriors doing their bit for the environment and you are a mere peasant without your two wheels, so tough luck!

There's no point in pointing out the dangers as they'd just laugh at you, and say you were being pathetic, 'get a life' etc - but where are the staff when this happens?

As for buggies - well there's another thread (or two, or three) on this here where I've already made my feelings known. When a young mum orders two elderly people out of the 'buggy area' (i.e. wheelchair area) then you know it's bad.

Perhaps they should start using class 325s on the Cambridge flyer. Then there'd be plenty of room for bikes!

 

[HST Power]

Perhaps they should start using class 325s on the Cambridge flyer. Then there'd be plenty of room for bikes!

I heard a rumor that the Class 50 was being considered for certain Cambridge duties, not sure which though.