London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[silentone]

I'm sure the Inverness service does the All Day offer leaving London, then Afternoon Tea leaving Edinburgh then reverts to Evening Offer (which is all day minus the salad & cake). I've already pointed out the pointless nature of the evening offer because 90% of the time the cake & salad are still on the train which has the evening offer.

I had seen one journey card for an Aberdeen service a while back and the last 'full service' of drinks & food takes place, going North, at Dundee, anyone who joins after Dundee are offered Tea & Coffee and a snack (but only those boarding). I'm guessing the Inverness service is much the same near the end of the trip.

Trolley's/Carts going over is a common issue although some common sense from some crews can easily solve this, A lot of crews are happy for them to go over to prove a point.

The menu's are confusing, I'm sure they'll be changed at some point. I've tried announcing what menu I'm using but with having an 'Evening Meal' and 'Evening Offer' is still confusing and in general people don't listen anyway! I will be interested to see what they will do with next week's menu now there has been a change to the hot meal no doubt what's coming will provoke some interesting feedback.

I did issue everyone recently (who were 70mins+) with 4 triangles of sandwiches and crisps from a basket and not in a packet the other day. I've never gone through so many packs of sandwiches and I ran up and down First Class like I was practising for the Olympics. I had to refill the darn basket with crisps every couple of tables. I'm sure pre-launch they told us only 40% would take up the offer, right now I'd say it's right up there at 99%.

Other than people asking for additional drinks when the food service is taking place I've had no issues with drinks. Saying it will be back 'shortly' or 'later' seems to do the trick rather than telling them when exactly it will return, which seems to start some magic countdown in their head and when the cart doesn't appear at their seat at that precise time they kick off.

Sugar Bowls are usually last on my list of things to check, although I normally make sure there is enough 'around' for everyone. I have noticed trains missing them but there is that much to do I always forget to order them! I've tried leaving myself a note but I always lose it. I'll maybe write myself a note to remind me where I left the note about the bowls.

 

[blackfive460]

...is it really required to have 8 cups of tea in 8 hours...

Possibly not, but that isn't the point.
Simple things like the tea and coffee service need to be frequent so that passengers can get one when they want one. Perhaps you don't want one leaving KGX but for the next opportunity, you shouldn't have to wait until Doncaster.
In the past, I've had four or more offers on that journey. Just two last Friday and the second one was too near York to be any use. Not good.

 

[Furrball]

Not a good start - breakfast not loaded onto the service so a member of staff apparently went and raided the Inverness supermarket to enable bacon rolls to be provided to the customers.

Also, insufficient staff to provide a trolley service in standard class.

Let us see how the rest of the journey goes . . .

 

[amcluesent]

The operator (can't remember which it was) who introduced 'squirty' milk straws in EC 1st got a pasting in the papers. They went back to carrying the milk jugs after a few weeks, quite rightly IMHO.

My PBO-KGX service reverted to just offering muffins this morning, especially vexing as other pax were still chowing down on full English.

My 'feedback' emails to firstclass@... are now always giving the specific train where the complimentaries are not as per the menu booklet. If, as implied in #571, some crews are making a point of being awkward, then I don't feel bad anymore in doing this.

 

[StrollerEd]

Trolley's/Carts going over is a common issue although some common sense from some crews can easily solve this, A lot of crews are happy for them to go over to prove a point.

<snip>

I did issue everyone recently (who were 70mins+) with 4 triangles of sandwiches and crisps from a basket and not in a packet the other day. I've never gone through so many packs of sandwiches and I ran up and down First Class like I was practising for the Olympics. I had to refill the darn basket with crisps every couple of tables.

The last thing I want on 'my train' is fraught staff. That only makes it unpleasant for all and will drive away custom. Even if you were to jog up and down frequently with a smile on your face you would still disturb the tranquility that is meant to be the 'let the train take the strain' FC experience.

The new policy is in error. When I first wrote to EC I said that they had little time in which to change it. That time is running out.

Perhaps the top management have given up on renewing the franchise and are just cutting 'their' loses.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Not a good start - breakfast not loaded onto the service so a member of staff apparently went and raided the Inverness supermarket to enable bacon rolls to be provided to the customers.

Also, insufficient staff to provide a trolley service in standard class.

Let us see how the rest of the journey goes . . .

all credit to the staff that are there.


I'll wave as you pass Edinburgh - but if you want something from McD you will have to get your order in quick ...

 

[Failed Unit]

Remember DOR are not going to bid for the next franchise they are just care taking until the next operator takes over, so the only real incentive is don't kill the franchise or no-one else will bid for it.

Looking at the highland chieftain it had gone from full meal, to at seat to virtually nothing in 5 years.

 

[Blindtraveler]

and as far as not ruining things so nobody bids, they have, or so it would seam from others experiences shot themselves in the foot. I have had 2 shorter runs, one with breakfast, another on Saturday. A longer trip I think is definately needed. As far as n6t loading breakfast at EDB on the northbound run, that is just a discusting and terrible failure and shows RG up for what they are, incapable.

The crews I have nothing but admiration for, well done to them. Any clues as to what hot meal will be on next week instead of the curry?

 

[142094]

Is the milk actually fresh or one of those ones that comes frozen in a polythene container (Marks and Spencers cafes use them)?

 

[silentone]

The milk is fresh, come's in 1pint cartons can't remember which supplier. And on the odd occasion you do indeed get M&S milk. Various other items have been M&S recently and in the past.

RG have quite a number of new staff which is only adding to the problems.

Back on topic as this is veering off again, next weeks replacement meal is another Tart.

Someone above mentioned on their PBO-KGX trip they were offered the muffin basket only, but for that journey in the morning that would be the only offered item unless the crew had additional items that would be going to waste at the end of the trip.

 

[Furrball]

Ok, continuing the journey south.

The bacon baps that were served as mentioned above were basically cold - whilst the staff went out of there way to provide them they should still be able to serve hot food hot.

On arrival in Edinburgh is soon became apparent that there was an issue with the stock being loaded with I believe the Ham Hock missing. Menu choses were as the day previous so are not going to provide any variation for regular travellers.

The first lunch run was made on departure from Edinburgh at 11:40 - maybe a little early really?

There were no menu booklets on the tables for any part of the
journey.
Once again the comments regarding how Coach J operates apply. Maybe it should be looked into modifying the door at the end of coach J to push button operated so that staff do not continually open the door when arranging the food carts.

Whilst it is obvious that Coach J as the quiet coach does not work this is the set up at present and staff should respect this. On staff change overs they should walk through the carriage into the kitchen area, close the door and have their conversation there - not shout it from one end to the other as they walk through. Also no effort was made to enforce the quiet coach with several people making calls.

All in all a very disappointing journey in both directions

All of this will be going in writing to East Coast - for what it is worth.

One other effect of the changes is that there is now very little luggage space in Coach J, with there being the limited space above the cart stowage and then the overhead racks. The redesign of the 1+1 seats leaves no behind seat storage on that side of the carriage and on the 2+2 side the presence of a litter bin and a power supply unit of some sorts stops any sort of stowage there

 

[andylloyd]

Is the milk actually fresh or one of those ones that comes frozen in a polythene container (Marks and Spencers cafes use them)?

Working for M&S I can Confirm that the milk is fresh and NOT frozen.
For the Cafe side they come in the poly pouches to reduce packaging(Plan A).

 

[YorkshireRider]

The menu rotates once a week on wednesday. A cauliflower cheese pie is replacing the veg biryani but apart from that the menu will go back to the first rotation tomorrow. There are no rail gormet stores in Inverness, the breakfast stock will be loaded at Edinburgh on the previous days northbound journey, which means it either didnt or there may have been a fridge breakdown and the food had to thrown because it wasnt kept in temperature over night. Business passengers do not want a quiet coach in FC and i encourage them to write in about it, hopefully it will be gone soon, maybe they could be one on a weekend only which could be coach M.

Indeed the items listed on the menu are irrelevant for journeys under 70 mins, it says at the bottom of the page that drinks and snacks are provided for these journeys, which in the am is jucies, tea, coffee, water and breakfast muffins, cheese and pepper twists and maybe buscuits but not sure on that. Not saying i agree with that but at the momement that is the case.

 

[Squaddie]

Business passengers do not want a quiet coach in FC...

On what basis do you make that statement?

 

[38Cto15E]

Very sad to hear your experience on the Highland Chieftain Furrball, I will keep my eye out at Edinburgh Waverley for my breakfast being loaded at 1630 the previous afternoon when I make the same trip in a couple of weeks.

 

[sidmouth]

Indeed the items listed on the menu are irrelevant for journeys under 70 mins, it says at the bottom of the page that drinks and snacks are provided for these journeys, which in the am is jucies, tea, coffee, water and breakfast muffins, cheese and pepper twists and maybe buscuits but not sure on that. Not saying i agree with that but at the momement that is the case.

Re the 70 min rule I continue to be disgusted by it, given my recent experience PBO to KGX and just being offered a stale cuassont on a 7am ex PBO in return for a £124 return ticket, particularly when those from EDB for £198 return on a business exec ticket can enjoy the full works. And yes I have complained to EC! I know I posted at the time on my experience, but sorry I am still irritated by the rule.
There is nothing more annoying than seeing other passengers chomping on their breakfast whilst us PBO peasants (apparently in EC eyes) go hungry.

 

[Failed Unit]

Pre-downgrade could you have got breakfast from Peterborough? Timewise the could cook it and have you plates away as many times I had being served and paid up before Berwick from Edinburgh, but I thought Peterborough was always deemed too short.

I have noticed they need a lot of time to tidy up. They cups are normally gone by Peterborough southbound (not stopping) and Morpeth northbound on the Edinburgh route. After Newcastle it is here is your tea, drink it quick as we want these stashed away soon. It isn't as if it is only 30 mins Edinburgh - Newcastle!

 

[Furrball]

Business passengers do not want a quiet coach in FC

On what basis do you make that statement?

Agreed - I quite like the idea of a quiet coach in 1st class be I travelling for business or pleasure. If I need to make a phone call I would rather not everyone around be earwigging into the conversation...

Back to my journey.

There was one woman serving on the service from Edinburgh who when bringing tea and coffee would announce in quite a loud voice 'TEA OR COFFEE'. This is unessecary - simply stopping at each table and looking at the occupants and quietly offering tea and coffee would more than suffice. At the volume she was announcing it she could have made the announcement as she entered the carriage and everyone would have known she was on her way.

Now this does not relate to the food service but the toilet at the end of coach L was engaged and had been for a good half hour. I had not seen the guard but went to a member of the catering crew to point this out as who knows that the situation was. Now I am pretty certain that she said she would speak to the guard when he came through. After waiting 20 minutes or so after the guard had passed through the train and nothing had happened I went to the buffet counter to raise the point again. A this point the woman asked me had I not spoken to the guard, to which I said no, I was under the impression you were. Anyway, she then commented that there was nothing she could do as she was catering. Now, I am sorry but you have a badge on your uniform that says East Coast therefore saying there is nothing you can do is not true - all she had to say was that that she was unable to open the toilet but she would contact the guard and arrange for him to investigate the matter. A short while later another (I assume senior) member of the catering crew went past and stuck an Out of Order sticker on the door, ironically at about the same time the guard did arrive, unlocked the door and found no one in there nor any reason for it being locked.

 

[Greenback]

The art of good service is to make a run through at the start of the journey, then walk silently up and down regularly, while approaching new arrivals to offer them refreshments.

 

[sidmouth]

Pre-downgrade could you have got breakfast from Peterborough?

Certainly an at-seat bacon butty pre 22nd May. Now a stale croissant. Is this progress?

 

[silentone]

The menu rotates once a week on wednesday. A cauliflower cheese pie is replacing the veg biryani but apart from that the menu will go back to the first rotation tomorrow. There are no rail gormet stores in Inverness, the breakfast stock will be loaded at Edinburgh on the previous days northbound journey, which means it either didnt or there may have been a fridge breakdown and the food had to thrown because it wasnt kept in temperature over night. Business passengers do not want a quiet coach in FC and i encourage them to write in about it, hopefully it will be gone soon, maybe they could be one on a weekend only which could be coach M.

Indeed the items listed on the menu are irrelevant for journeys under 70 mins, it says at the bottom of the page that drinks and snacks are provided for these journeys, which in the am is jucies, tea, coffee, water and breakfast muffins, cheese and pepper twists and maybe buscuits but not sure on that. Not saying i agree with that but at the momement that is the case.

The Cauliflower Cheese Tart is out already today.

And yep those reasons are exactly why the Inverness or Aberdeen services tend to have none of something the next day.

It also seems to be the leisure traveller that mainly use the new Quiet Coach unless everyone else has no choice.

Re: 70 minutes, I have seen crews issuing additional 'leftovers'. I would agree with them that it's better to use it rather than just put it in the bin but people shouldn't count on getting it every-time they travel! You can still buy a bacon toastie at the bar! There is nothing stopping you!

 

[jon0844]

A short while later another (I assume senior) member of the catering crew went past and stuck an Out of Order sticker on the door, ironically at about the same time the guard did arrive, unlocked the door and found no one in there nor any reason for it being locked.

When I went to Leeds on a late train, a member of staff was knocking on the door of a locked toilet in our carriage as we boarded - with no response. He then said it must be empty and that was it.

Off we went, but what if someone was unconscious inside? Nobody checked the toilet ever again (well, perhaps when the train came out of service that night!). I hope it was empty!!

 

[silentone]

The majority of times a toilet is locked out of use and a small message is written on the Toilet door sign and dated if they didn't have a sign to put on the door. It's very difficult to read tho and probably not something a passenger is looking for.

People also tell us the toilets aren't working, won't flush, have water all over the floor and are backed up. If we don't get seen to do something people complain that we don't listen so it's easier to lock it out of use. 9 times out of 10 the toilet just needs flushed.

The catering staff are not actually meant to use/check or touch the toilet facilities onboard as there is no way to break the chain of bacteria between the toilet and the catering service. Washing hands in the kitchen again does not break the chain. Similarly onboard cleaners are not meant to go in or use the kitchen for the same reason.

 

[Blindtraveler]

god help you if you fell fowel of a dodgy takeaway the previous night!
in all seriusness what are onboard staff ment to do on a 4 hour plus trip if they are in need. Rubber gloves?

 

[Failed Unit]

You can still buy a bacon toastie at the bar! There is nothing stopping you!

Brilliant business plan east coast coast, stand in the queue lose all the benefits of going first class and think you know what next time I will travel standard and save some cash.

In the good old days of at seat that was one reason for going first no need to queue for 10 minutes and wait around for the item to be cooked. People pay a premium for this, hence why room service isn't free at hotels! But may people at east coast just don't get this!

 

[sidmouth]

Brilliant business plan east coast coast, stand in the queue lose all the benefits of going first class and think you know what next time I will travel standard and save some cash.

Exactly. I have already emailed EC that I'll now be travelling standard class on sub 70 min journeys. And indeed from PBO to KGX I might as well travel FCC, as that will guarantee a seat (of course, buying some sustenance before boarding the train). Yes FCC is a marginally slower but not much so to warrant the increased fare that EC charge. I think EC have lost the plot, unless that was EC's intention all along - to discourage PBO KGX peasant travel via EC.
The only reason for travelling EC was that they differentiated their service from FCC (at least prior to 22nd May). Not so now.

 

[amcluesent]

>Not so now<

Kind off...no air-con, no tables you can confortably use a laptop in standard, no power-sockets, less comfort, clattery carriages, fast services from KGX to PBO are rammed...

 

[jon0844]

Perhaps they don't want people only going kgx to pbo as that means a wasted seat if it was then available to a fc customer going 'all the way'.

That would sort of make sense on services where fc is often pretty full.

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[sidmouth]

>Not so now<

Kind off...no air-con, no tables you can confortably use a laptop in standard, no power-sockets, less comfort, clattery carriages, fast services from KGX to PBO are rammed...

From PBO to KGX AM peak EC standard are rammed, at least FCC start almost empty, and then on the PM peak returns EC can be almost fully reserved whilst FCC seats are at least first come first served. Hence it has to be either EC 1st or otherwise FCC standard. But with loss of EC 1st class level of service it's now FCC all the way for me.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Perhaps they don't want people only going kgx to pbo as that means a wasted seat if it was then available to a fc customer going 'all the way'.

That might be the case but would have thought a £124 1st open return PBO to KGx would have been welcomed by EC over eg longer distance Advance fares. But seems like I am wrong.

 

[StrollerEd]

there seems no sense in their new policy unless they are planning to deter both short journeys (to PBO) and long journeys (to EDIN). Perhaps its now to be the York/Newcastle Express service?

 

[jon0844]

£124 for a return to PBO from KGX or vice versa is mad. How much is FC on FCC?

You won't get a drink, snack or Wi-Fi but if you get a 321 you will get (IMHO) a nice seat and table or pull down seat back table. Use the money saved on a mobile data connection and a sandwich and drink bought before boarding.

A 365 is just as good but if you get a 317 then bad luck! I do think a 321 is quite likely now though.

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