I will be getting a intention to prosecution letter from Govia Thameslink

[shaj94]

It happened yesterday so I am awaiting the letter I take fulll responsibility.

Is this letter fine because it was too late by the time I realised i got the wrong ticket

Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing in response to the Notice of Intention to Prosecute regarding the incident that occurred at Three Bridges on 28th January 2025. I sincerely apologise for my mistake and any inconvenience caused.
On that day, I was in a rush and mistakenly purchased a ticket from Victoria to Clapham instead of Victoria to Gatwick. Bit later I purchased another ticket from Gatwick to Three Bridges so that I can get picked up from Three Bridges instead of Gatwick believing it covered the journey from Victoria to Gatwick. Unfortunately, I later realised that I did not have a valid ticket for the section between Clapham and Gatwick, which included East Croydon. By the time I became aware of this mistake, it was too late to correct it.
I take full responsibility for this error and deeply regret my actions. I understand the importance of fare compliance and the impact fare evasion has on Govia Thameslink Railway and the wider transport system. Since this incident, I have ensured that I always purchase the correct and complete ticket for my journeys.
I sincerely regret this situation and would greatly appreciate the opportunity to settle this matter without court action. If Govia Thameslink Railway is willing to offer a settlement, I would be grateful for the chance to resolve this by paying the outstanding fare and any reasonable administrative costs.
Once again, I apologise for my actions and any inconvenience caused. I appreciate your time in reviewing my response and hope for a positive resolution.
Yours faithfully,


 

[John R]

I’m afraid your second paragraph is unbelievable. We always advise people to tell the truth, and the chances of the investigator believing your story is nil. And if they don’t believe what you say, why should they offer you a settlement, or believe anything else you say?

 

[shaj94]

I’m afraid your second paragraph is unbelievable. We always advise people to tell the truth, and the chances of the investigator believing your story is nil. And if they don’t believe what you say, why should they offer you a settlement, or believe anything else you say?

I understand but that’s what happened I was willing to pay the remainder but the govia member didn’t let me pay it

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I made a mistake and i will own up to it

 

[tram21]

I understand but that’s what happened I was willing to pay the remainder but the govia member didn’t let me pay it

That's because unfortunately you've committed an offence by 'donututting' (e.g. buying tickets just to get through barriers).

The experts will be along to provide their advice, but generally the advice is don't write to them until they've written to you, and do not lie. Hopefully you will be given an out-of-court settlement, which will be the full undiscounted fare from London Victoria to Three Bridges, plus a 3-figure admin fee.

If you have done this multiple times, expect them to search through your journey history and want that money back too.

 

[alholmes]

I understand but that’s what happened I was willing to pay the remainder but the govia member didn’t let me pay it

I quite believe you bought those tickets, but don’t believe the reason you’ve stated for buying those tickets. I’d suggest you bought them just to get through the barriers at each end of the journey, and to avoid the full fare. It wasn’t a mistake.

 

[John R]

I understand but that’s what happened I was willing to pay the remainder but the govia member didn’t let me pay it

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I think you’d need to have a very good explanation as to how you mistakenly bought that first ticket from Victoria to Clapham.

 

[alholmes]

Since this incident, I have ensured that I always purchase the correct and complete ticket for my journeys.

By your own admission, the incident only occurred yesterday, so how can this be true? You’ve just done a ‘copy and paste’ from other examples on this forum.

 

[Snow1964]

It sounds like you bought the second ticket on the train, and probably used an app to do it. Therefore you should expect them to look at the history on that app.

If your address is in Three Bridges, then you are going to have to assume tickets like Victoria-Clapham will look very inconsistent if there are also short distance tickets in Sussex on same date. They will assume you have been buying to get through gates, not for whole journey.

Expect any settlement offer to include full fares for all these journeys (with history for at least a year, possibly multi-year if you have done it for long time).

 

[shaj94]

It sounds like you bought the second ticket on the train, and probably used an app to do it. Therefore you should expect them to look at the history on that app.

If your address is in Three Bridges, then you are going to have to assume tickets like Victoria-Clapham will look very inconsistent if there are also short distance tickets in Sussex on same date. They will assume you have been buying to get through gates, not for whole journey.

Expect any settlement offer to include full fares for all these journeys (with history for at least a year, possibly multi-year if you have done it for long time).

I see that makes sense

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I bought the second ticket on the train

 

[WesternLancer]

It happened yesterday so I am awaiting the letter I take fulll responsibility.

Is this letter fine because it was too late by the time I realised i got the wrong ticket

Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing in response to the Notice of Intention to Prosecute regarding the incident that occurred at Three Bridges on 28th January 2025. I sincerely apologise for my mistake and any inconvenience caused.
On that day, I was in a rush and mistakenly purchased a ticket from Victoria to Clapham instead of Victoria to Gatwick. Bit later I purchased another ticket from Gatwick to Three Bridges so that I can get picked up from Three Bridges instead of Gatwick believing it covered the journey from Victoria to Gatwick. Unfortunately, I later realised that I did not have a valid ticket for the section between Clapham and Gatwick, which included East Croydon. By the time I became aware of this mistake, it was too late to correct it.
I take full responsibility for this error and deeply regret my actions. I understand the importance of fare compliance and the impact fare evasion has on Govia Thameslink Railway and the wider transport system. Since this incident, I have ensured that I always purchase the correct and complete ticket for my journeys.
I sincerely regret this situation and would greatly appreciate the opportunity to settle this matter without court action. If Govia Thameslink Railway is willing to offer a settlement, I would be grateful for the chance to resolve this by paying the outstanding fare and any reasonable administrative costs.
Once again, I apologise for my actions and any inconvenience caused. I appreciate your time in reviewing my response and hope for a positive resolution.
Yours faithfully,


I was in a rush and mistakenly purchased a ticket from Victoria to Clapham instead of Victoria to Gatwick

So in terms of your draft is this a 'mistake'? (because it looks to me like a deliberate attempt to short fare - that's not a mistake, it's deliberate fare evasion_ - although it might look to you like a mistake when you then got caught for doing it - so you need to be honest with them about this, and maybe honest with yourself too...

And why would being in a rush mean you selected a destination that just happened to be the next stop after Victoria? as opposed to somewhere else starting with 'G' - you need to appreciate the staff now investigating this are not stupid.

In this context a 'mistake' might be that every day you go to Clapham Junction but on this day you needed to go to Three bridges and you forgot you needed to go to Three bridges so you just bought the ticket you usually buy.

Incidentally it then looks like you deliberately evaded the fare at the other end of the journey too by only buying Gatwick to Three Bridges. Even if you didn't do this deliberately you can surely see why they think you might do so.

You need to describe this more like 'I made a serious error of judgment by not paying for a ticket for my full travel on the day in question and I sincerely regret my actions'

They want to know things like:
- you understand what you did was wrong
- you will never do it again
- that you will pay back what you owe them

Be aware also that if you have bought short tickets like this on other occasions they will now see your ticket buying records for that and they could ask you about it, so you need to anticipate that this may happen, even if you are not required to tell them about it now - so don't try to persuade them this was a one off if it wasn't.

 

[shaj94]

I am just being stupid and insincere I’ll be completely honest I did this for 11 days( I started a new job and I just didn’t have the money at the time) and I am willing to show my history and pay the remaining if I was afforded a settlement or I am willing to try go to a solicitor

 

[WesternLancer]

I am just being stupid and insincere I’ll be completely honest I did this for 11 days( I started a new job and I just didn’t have the money at the time) and I am willing to show my history and pay the remaining if I was afforded a settlement or I am willing to try go to a solicitor

if you draft something up that reflects that in an honest way you are far more likely to get somewhere. At this stage you are not required to to tell them about the other days if they are not asking you (but be aware they may subsequently do so)

You probably don't need to pay for a solicitor at this stage (think fees of maybe £500 from the solicitor ) but you may need to think about that if your own efforts to resolve this with the railway don't work.

have a go at drafting a better apology letter that you can send them

 

[shaj94]

So I got my exact free from 14th Jan to Tues 28 which is £107.24 out of a possible £264

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Ye I checked with manak solicitors and it would could around £700 but they were trying to get me to do it before the letter gets sent to me so that they can reach the settlement

 

[Cuthbert]

So I got my exact free from 14th Jan to Tues 28 which is £107.24 out of a possible £264

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Ye I checked with manak solicitors and it would could around £700 but they were trying to get me to do it before the letter gets sent to me so that they can reach the settlement

Are those figures what you owe?
They normally charge for a return journey a Standard single each way. A return would be two standard singles, they don't normally reduce the amount which was paid for already and they do not add a rail card discount.
Then they add an admin charge of between £95-£150 (some have been £250 recently).

 

[shaj94]

These are the prices with the railcard 25-30 which I have but if it’s without it goes to 390

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This is two single tickets from three bridges to Farringdon and Victoria to Crawley/Three Bridges

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So altogether it would be 390.5 - 107.25 would that be what I owe so 282.75

 

[WesternLancer]

So I got my exact free from 14th Jan to Tues 28 which is £107.24 out of a possible £264

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Ye I checked with manak solicitors and it would could around £700 but they were trying to get me to do it before the letter gets sent to me so that they can reach the settlement

well, then you could save yourself £700 by doing it yourself, but if you are not confident in your ability to draft a letter to them that is honest and apologetic you might want to consider paying the solicitor. It's good that you have found out what that would cost so you can make an informed decision.

So I got my exact free from 14th Jan to Tues 28 which is £107.24 out of a possible £264

apologies but I suspect some typos here - it's not clear what you are trying to explain. You may be able to correct it

 

[shaj94]

These are the prices with the railcard 25-30 which I have but if it’s without it goes to 390

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This is two single tickets from three bridges to Farringdon and Victoria to Crawley/Three Bridges

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So altogether it would be 390.5 - 107.25 would that be what I owe so 282.75

Plus admin cost would that be around 450 to 540 all together

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What I paid the last 11 days was 107.25 for my journeys

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With railcard discounts which I have but the total amount I would have paid is without railcard discounts and full journey is 390 since Thameslink won’t count discounts

 

[WesternLancer]

These are the prices with the railcard 25-30 which I have but if it’s without it goes to 390

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This is two single tickets from three bridges to Farringdon and Victoria to Crawley/Three Bridges

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So altogether it would be 390.5 - 107.25 would that be what I owe so 282.75

An Anytime Day Single from Farringdon to Three Bridges is £17.40 (each way) - this will be the fare they have considered you have evaded

An Anytime Day Single from Clapham Junction to Gatwick Airport is £27.00 (even though it is a shorter journey)

A single fare is a one way fare.

There are cheaper tickets for return tickets and off peak travel but they will probably be seeking the full Anytime fare if they suspect deliberate evasion

But at this stage you are not asking them to accept a sum of money that you calculate - you are apologising, saying you have learned from this, and offering to pay them 'the fare that they believe you owe' (see examples on other threads), they will hopefully then come back to you and tell you what they want you to pay.

 

[shaj94]

So depending on the letter if it’s an isolated incident would just admit to that specific incident and apologise? Or would I apologise for the other 10 days

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So depending on the letter if it’s an isolated incident would just admit to that specific incident and apologise? Or would I apologise for the other 10 days

So I used two different tickets since afternoon the easier one was Victoria to Crawley which is why I added 17.40 to 18.10 which is £35.5 for a day is what I thought they would use

 

[WesternLancer]

So depending on the letter if it’s an isolated incident would just admit to that specific incident and apologise? Or would I apologise for the other 10 days

Yes, you would do that - but wait for the letter and then check here with your draft reply. If the letter asks about other days then you can answer that, if it does not ask about other days then your reply is about the occasion they are asking you about.

You just need to be aware they MIGHT ask you about the other days either in their first letter or subsequently. There is not much you can do now apart from wait for the letter.

The only things you could really do now are:

- go to a ticket office and ask if a season ticket would make your travel cheaper so you can consider if there is a legitimate way to reduce your travel costs.
- make sure you buy the right ticket from now on every time you travel
- look at a selection of other threads on this forum involving Thameslink or Southern to see how similar cases play out, as a way of preparing yourself

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So I used two different tickets since afternoon the easier one was Victoria to Crawley which is why I added 17.40 to 18.10 which is £35.5 for a day is what I thought they would use

i don't think you can predict exactly what sums they would use at this stage.

 

[shaj94]

I see thank you I will try and post a draft for the specific incident. The issue is I am trying to get to Bond Street so I normally take three bridges to Farringdon in the morning and use contactless to Bond Street via Elizabeth line and then I get another single ticket after 6 where I use contactless green park to Victoria then Victoria to Crawley (split save) which is around £24 together and £5.60 per day just so I get home around 7not sure if you recommend anything else

 

[WesternLancer]

I see thank you I will try and post a draft for the specific incident. The issue is I am trying to get to Bond Street so I normally take three bridges to Farringdon in the morning and use contactless to Bond Street via Elizabeth line and then I get another single ticket after 6 where I use contactless green park to Victoria then Victoria to Crawley (split save) which is around £24 together and £5.60 per day just so I get home around 7not sure if you recommend anything else

You could start a separate thread on 'Fares Advice and Policy' part of the forum to ask fares experts what is the best / cheapest way of doing the travel you need to do - including any parts at the end of the journey where you have to get further to or from a railway station to complete your overall travel.

people will be able to tell you what is the cheapest option to travel from Three Bridges to Bond Street and back each day (if that is what you do)

They may know of a cheaper way for you to use that is legitimate.

 

[shaj94]

Sure thank you as a draft do you have any feedback for


Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing in response to the Notice of Intention to Prosecute regarding the incident on 28th January 2025 at Three Bridges. I fully accept that I travelled without a valid ticket and sincerely apologise for my actions.

On that day, I purchased a ticket from Victoria to Clapham and another from Gatwick to Three Bridges.However, this meant I did not have a valid ticket for the journey between Clapham and Gatwick, including East Croydon. I take full responsibility for this and deeply regret my actions.

I understand the seriousness of fare evasion and the impact it has on Govia Thameslink Railway and the wider rail network. Since this incident, I have ensured that I always purchase the correct ticket for my journeys.

I would be extremely grateful for the opportunity to settle this matter without court action. If possible, I am willing to pay the outstanding fare and any reasonable administrative costs to resolve this.

Once again, I apologise for my actions and any inconvenience caused. I appreciate your time in reviewing my response and hope for a positive resolution.

I wanted to include financial difficulties which is the truth but I don’t know if
that will be appropriate

 

[WesternLancer]

Sure thank you as a draft do you have any feedback for


Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing in response to the Notice of Intention to Prosecute regarding the incident on 28th January 2025 at Three Bridges. I fully accept that I travelled without a valid ticket and sincerely apologise for my actions.

On that day, I purchased a ticket from Victoria to Clapham and another from Gatwick to Three Bridges.However, this meant I did not have a valid ticket for the journey between Clapham and Gatwick, including East Croydon. I take full responsibility for this and deeply regret my actions.

I understand the seriousness of fare evasion and the impact it has on Govia Thameslink Railway and the wider rail network. Since this incident, I have ensured that I always purchase the correct ticket for my journeys.

I would be extremely grateful for the opportunity to settle this matter without court action. If possible, I am willing to pay the outstanding fare and any reasonable administrative costs to resolve this.

Once again, I apologise for my actions and any inconvenience caused. I appreciate your time in reviewing my response and hope for a positive resolution.

I wanted to include financial difficulties which is the truth but I don’t know if
that will be appropriate

That's a good draft generally - and you can mention financial difficulties if you wish as it can't do any harm if it is true.

But until you hear from them you can't really know what they are asking you so you may need to adjust your reply depending on what they say when they write to you. So you do need to wait for that.

 

[shaj94]

Thank you does the letter usually take up to 2 weeks to arrive

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you does the letter usually take up to 2 weeks to arrive

It can take up to 6 months. We’ve seen a few backlogs lately so it’s just a waiting game for you.

 

[shaj94]

I see makes sense do you know how much would it be for the the travel card if it’s just Crawley to Victoria only without underground weekly or monthly?

 

[Cuthbert]

I see makes sense do you know how much would it be for the the travel card if it’s just Crawley to Victoria only without underground weekly or monthly?

The guys in this Forum section can help you out.
Just give the traveling details you want they will find the cheapest way to do it.

Fares Advice & Policy

Requests for good value tickets and routeing advice, as well as general discussion on fares policy.

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[shaj94]

It can take up to 6 months. We’ve seen a few backlogs lately so it’s just a waiting game for you.

Should I just wait if takes longer than 20 working days or do i send an email if it takes longer so far it’s been 1 week

 

[Spaceship323]

As AlterEgo said in post #26 it can take up to 6 months to get a letter. Please don't try to contact the train company. it isn't in your interest to do so