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Companies That You Expect to Disappear Soon

Peter Sarf

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The owners of HMV and Hobbycraft are reported to be looking at acquiring WHS' High St stores.

Whether this will be bought as a whole, then to break up and sell on unwanted branches to other retailers. Some could become HMV, Poundland and Ryman, etc.

Or the stores could be run the same as WHS but under a new name, but I can't see this working out as "Office Outlet" did not last post-Staples.

The "flagship" locations in major towns & cities, shopping centres & retail parks will quickly get snapped up by likes of Zara etc.

As for the others, they will probably become charity shops, Greggs, Card Factory, Savers drugstores, Premier convenience stores if in low income areas whilst in affluent areas then probably White Stuff, M&S Food, Cornish Bakery etc.
I can see HMV wanting a place on the High Street - vinyl sales are on the up. Whether it is significant enough I do not know.

I think it is a large combination of different market segments in the one store that will make the ex high street WH Smiths successful.
Whether that includes in big shopping centres where there is competition I do not know. Ther is not really much competition for WH Smith n Croydon (due to Croydon being dysfunctional) but despite the lack of competition the store is dead on its feet.

You mention Savers drugstores - I can see them hurting Boots. Because I very rarely buy in Boots now.
 
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Egg Centric

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Or maybe the shop is so uninviting that they can't even get shoplifters wanting to go in.

Probably the case. What is there to resell to the type of people who knowingly buy stuff off shoplifters? With rare exceptions such as when they have an alcohol licence I don't think they have anything worth "commercial" level shoplifting.

You mentioned though that you used to work in legacy media of some kind. Out of interest - suppose though that someone was stealing copies of RAIL to flog off to the OPs of Disputes & Prosecutions forum (fun example bear with me). One of my teenage jobs was working in a village shop and something we had to do with the papers/magazines that were unsold was send them back along with the numbers we were sending back. I assume there's a similar procedure now. Question is - does anyone count them? While I manually did I could imagine that WH Smith's automates this based on their EPOS. I could also imagine that whoever takes them back (Menzies distribution in our case) doesn't count them either. So it's possible that in most cases they literally lose nothing at all from shoplifting of magazines/papers right? That burden instead being taken up by the publisher.

Is there anything in my little hypothesis?
 

JamesT

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HMV's exit from "bricks and mortar" stores, after many years of declining sales and its eventual administration, makes me think it won't be back on the high street any time soon.
Er, HMV are still in physical shops. They've been (re)opening stores since the administration and being bought out. They've widened their offering to all sorts of tat rather than just music.
 

GatwickDepress

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Er, HMV are still in physical shops. They've been (re)opening stores since the administration and being bought out. They've widened their offering to all sorts of tat rather than just music.
With the fall of GAME, HMV have taken up the mantle of supplying the British people with all the pop culture landfill waste they could ever need. Always seem to be quite busy when I pass by one too.
 

Harpo

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Thanks @JamesT and @GatwickDepress. That's a positive direction for "new" HMV, a significant improvement over its presence in the early 2000s; and perhaps an eventual return to how I remember it in the 1980s. With added tat!
Just don't get fooled by the 'flagship' HMV store in Oxford Street. Size and contents wise, its the same as their town centre stores.

Memories of the huge range of music in the original Oxford Street store will have to stay that way sadly.
 

Sun Chariot

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Just don't get fooled by the 'flagship' HMV store in Oxford Street. Size and contents wise, its the same as their town centre stores.

Memories of the huge range of music in the original Oxford Street store will have to stay that way sadly.
HMVs in Milton Keynes, Preston and Oxford were my go-to stores in the 1980s and very early 1990s.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Just don't get fooled by the 'flagship' HMV store in Oxford Street. Size and contents wise, its the same as their town centre stores.

Memories of the huge range of music in the original Oxford Street store will have to stay that way sadly.
Their largest store now, I think, is the one at Westfield Shepherd's Bush - that's over two floors, music downstairs DVDs upstairs and is a similar size to the old Oxford Street store.
 

jon0844

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HMVs in Milton Keynes, Preston and Oxford were my go-to stores in the 1980s and very early 1990s.

While I used to visit HMV, Tower Records (later Virgin and Zavvi) in my youth, I must say that I saw them much like WH Smith - vastly overpriced for most things.

I didn't just buy CDs but also things like posters, and I think if you were after something rare then you might not find it anywhere else - but if you shopped around, you'd save a lot of money. This was before the Internet, although you did have mail order shopping.

I know vinyl has supposedly made a comeback (and possibly even cassettes?) but it must be very niche. I can't see a market to expand beyond selected locations in areas where people might travel to go that store - and opening up more branches nationally would just be spreading the customer base thinner with higher costs as a result.
 

duncombec

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Probably the case. What is there to resell to the type of people who knowingly buy stuff off shoplifters? With rare exceptions such as when they have an alcohol licence I don't think they have anything worth "commercial" level shoplifting.

You mentioned though that you used to work in legacy media of some kind. Out of interest - suppose though that someone was stealing copies of RAIL to flog off to the OPs of Disputes & Prosecutions forum (fun example bear with me). One of my teenage jobs was working in a village shop and something we had to do with the papers/magazines that were unsold was send them back along with the numbers we were sending back. I assume there's a similar procedure now. Question is - does anyone count them? While I manually did I could imagine that WH Smith's automates this based on their EPOS. I could also imagine that whoever takes them back (Menzies distribution in our case) doesn't count them either. So it's possible that in most cases they literally lose nothing at all from shoplifting of magazines/papers right? That burden instead being taken up by the publisher.

Is there anything in my little hypothesis?
I'd guess things may have changed since I worked for them back in 2008 (so I was there when they started their decline from respected retailer into overpriced floggers of tat), but one of my jobs was indeed counting up and sending back newspapers.

They were sold sale or return, and yes, we manually counted each example. Fine when there were one or two, not so fine when there were 80 copies of the Daily Mail left over because it didn't have a pretending-to-be-free-DVD in it that week. So as such, because they weren't returned, any that were shoplifted went to the expense of the store, not the publisher. We had regular reports as to the "unders" - and eventually solved why we were regularly being shoplifted of the Irish Post (or one such ROI newspaper)... it turned out only the guy who did it in the week knew that it came from a different publisher, so the rest of us, shop manager included, were sending it back with the regular stock as "write-ins". No, we never got credited for it by the "wrong" publisher, either! I think they spot-checked, but most of the time what was on the form was what was paid for.


More generally, I'm saddened (as they gave me my first "real" job, as they did my grandmother 50-odd years earlier), but WHS has long lost its shine. As others have commented upthread, it became less focussed, running after the first quick buck rather than attempting to rival Waterstones or other stationery retailers. My branch was reduced in size (they closed upstairs - the DVD/stationery departments - ... how that somehow reduced the rent I don't know, as it was still connected to our equally upstairs storeroom, staffroom and toilets), turned us into a clearance store (which meant we got everybody else's unsold tat) then, thankfully after I left, closed down. We were the newsagent for the town centre at one point, with a queue outside the door at 10am on a Sunday morning... how they couldn't make that work, I do not know.

The "bounceback" vouchers (x% or y pence off z product on your next visit) were monitored from head office, and again, there was a league table of stores who failed to scan vouchers per customer. Note failed, not "yay, this store scanned 96% of vouchers" but "Boo, this score only scanned 84% of vouchers). Never mind that there were customers who bought their newspapers from us Every. Single. Day. and didn't need seven of them over the course of the week. A weekday colleague used to scan the voucher and not give it to the customer! (Or ask and say "did you want the voucher"). As the till sales moved on from the occasional bar of chocolate to a mass of junk that made it barely possible for customers to put things down to be scanned, she perfected the art of "Can I interest you in any...." performing a sweeping arm movement over said junk like cabin crew pointing out the emergency exits. She saved about 30 seconds a customer by doing that rather than mentioning each item individually!

We notices a bit of a drop in customers when they first ditched the Clubcard (the replacement scheme never took off, to the extent that the publicity level when that was withdrawn was about 5% of that when Clubcard went), and just over time, people realised they could get the same elsewhere. Would you rather buy your book from Waterstone's smart tables and wooden bookcases, where books are shown off to their best, or WHS' decade-old, chipped, metal shelving with its special layer of ingrained dirt, where books are just rammed on the shelves spine out and hope. If you had to go to HMV (we still had one then) for your DVD, Rymans for your pens, Wilko for wrapping paper and Boots next door for a sandwich and drink that was half the price of ours.... why would you still go to WHS for your book, when you could also buy that in Waterstones?

I'm still a member of the Facebook group for staff past and present, and it doesn't seem like there has been much morale (or store improvement) for years. My old boss escaped a few years ago, and is now a registrar of Births, Deaths and Marriages - even working for the local authority is a better environment than a retail manager, for her.

The High Street business is failing because management made it so.
 

Mojo

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On the topic of WHSMith, it was reported this morning that their High Street branches have suffered a 6% fall in sales.

WH Smith has reported falling sales in its UK high street stores, while revenues rose at its more successful travel arm, as the retail group attempts to off-load its ailing town centres division.

The retailer’s up-for-sale high street division – where it sells newspapers, books, stationery, cards and gifts – reported a 6% fall in sales in the 21 weeks to 25 January, compared with a year earlier.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...street-sales-fall-as-stores-put-on-the-market
 

Jimini

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They were sold sale or return, and yes, we manually counted each example. Fine when there were one or two, not so fine when there were 80 copies of the Daily Mail left over because it didn't have a pretending-to-be-free-DVD in it that week. So as such, because they weren't returned, any that were shoplifted went to the expense of the store, not the publisher. We had regular reports as to the "unders" - and eventually solved why we were regularly being shoplifted of the Irish Post (or one such ROI newspaper)... it turned out only the guy who did it in the week knew that it came from a different publisher, so the rest of us, shop manager included, were sending it back with the regular stock as "write-ins". No, we never got credited for it by the "wrong" publisher, either! I think they spot-checked, but most of the time what was on the form was what was paid for.

Everything is still scanned back at the wholesale depot. Newspaper returns are scanned using the same handheld devices they use to scan shop barcodes as proof of delivery. Magazines are returned in plastic totes and then scanned at the nearest magazine hub by a dedicated team, and then sent to a compressor outside via a conveyor belt, then eventually recycled.
 

SuspectUsual

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Everything is still scanned back at the wholesale depot. Newspaper returns are scanned using the same handheld devices they use to scan shop barcodes as proof of delivery. Magazines are returned in plastic totes and then scanned at the nearest magazine hub by a dedicated team, and then sent to a compressor outside via a conveyor belt, then eventually recycled.

Every item scanned individually?!?

That seems fantastically over the top for what are relatively low value items.

Bear in mind that tobacco returns to the big manufacturers are NOT individually scanned
 

Jimini

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Every item scanned individually?!?

That seems fantastically over the top for what are relatively low value items.

Bear in mind that tobacco returns to the big manufacturers are NOT individually scanned

Yep, every single one!
 

GusB

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Every item scanned individually?!?

That seems fantastically over the top for what are relatively low value items.

Bear in mind that tobacco returns to the big manufacturers are NOT individually scanned
It does seem like a monumental task, but I read it as every bundle being scanned, rather than every individual item within. I'd be losing the will to live... ;)
 

Egg Centric

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Every item scanned individually?!?

That seems fantastically over the top for what are relatively low value items.

Bear in mind that tobacco returns to the big manufacturers are NOT individually scanned

Interesting - although how valuable is tobacco without tax?

Am surprised though, but perhaps it's preciesely cause the situation I outlined could happen they need to be so stringent.
 

Benters

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The recent fall of 6% in retail sales for WH Smith does not surprise me. The other day I was looking for replacement cartridges for my Dymo Letraset labeller. I tried the local Ryman first, no joy there, they don't stock them anymore. I went the high street branch of WH Smith where ONE genuine Dymo cartridge was retailing for £10.49.
I can purchase SIX generic cartridges for my labeller for £12.99 on Amazon, which still works out a lot cheaper per cartridge even when you include postage and packaging.
 

bspahh

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The recent fall of 6% in retail sales for WH Smith does not surprise me. The other day I was looking for replacement cartridges for my Dymo Letraset labeller. I tried the local Ryman first, no joy there, they don't stock them anymore. I went the high street branch of WH Smith where ONE genuine Dymo cartridge was retailing for £10.49.
I can purchase SIX generic cartridges for my labeller for £12.99 on Amazon, which still works out a lot cheaper per cartridge even when you include postage and packaging.
Argos has 3 Dymo cartidges for £10. Temu has 5 generic ones for £3.96 including postage.
 

SuspectUsual

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Interesting - although how valuable is tobacco without tax?

Am surprised though, but perhaps it's preciesely cause the situation I outlined could happen they need to be so stringent.

About £7 for a packet of 20 at the moment (ie a bit less than 50% of the retail price)

But for the thief, obviously the resale price is based on the shelf price minus whatever the "knick off goods sold in a pub" discount is

(What the tobacco suppliers do is get declarations from the retailers when they do uplifts - generally once a year and consisting of remnant stock of out of date price marks, damaged/incomplete packs etc - and either weigh the lot and calculate a notional value based on that, or sample count some cartons. If there are then big discrepancies between what the supplier thinks he's got back and what the retailer says they've sent, they offer the retailer the option of taking the supplier's offer or the retailer funding more detailed counts. Generally they choose the offer, especially now tobacco volumes are declining so much)
 

Jimini

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It does seem like a monumental task, but I read it as every bundle being scanned, rather than every individual item within. I'd be losing the will to live... ;)

Every single item.. news and mags. If full bundles of product are returned, they get split down and scanned individually as well!
 

jon0844

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I always got a little angry when WH Smith staff scanned vouchers and didn't give them to me. I asked for them to be unscanned as I wasn't getting them (having said no I didn't want them) and they argued that it made no difference so what's the problem?

I assume it did make a difference as they get the company on the voucher to pay for each one issued, so it was basically akin to fraud.
 

Peter Sarf

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HMV's exit from "bricks and mortar" stores, after many years of declining sales and its eventual administration, makes me think it won't be back on the high street any time soon.
I was wondering if HMV had a change of heart. People used to love thumbing through the records (CDs). Perhaps it is part of the owning vinyl thing - a danger it will wane again unless a reasonable quantity of the younger generation are falling in love with owning the piece of music.
 

Peter Mugridge

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I always got a little angry when WH Smith staff scanned vouchers and didn't give them to me. I asked for them to be unscanned as I wasn't getting them (having said no I didn't want them) and they argued that it made no difference so what's the problem?

I assume it did make a difference as they get the company on the voucher to pay for each one issued, so it was basically akin to fraud.
You are correct; it is fraud - they do get paid per voucher issued.
 

Lewisham2221

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HMV's exit from "bricks and mortar" stores, after many years of declining sales and its eventual administration, makes me think it won't be back on the high street any time soon.
Maybe not as numerous as they once were, but there's still plenty of "bricks and mortar" HMV stores
 

Kite159

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I was wondering if HMV had a change of heart. People used to love thumbing through the records (CDs). Perhaps it is part of the owning vinyl thing - a danger it will wane again unless a reasonable quantity of the younger generation are falling in love with owning the piece of music.
The last few HMVs I've been in has had the CD area right near the back of the store with a heavy push for vinyl & other stuff.

I guess there is more of a profit margin in selling someone a £30 vinyl compared to £12 for the CD.
 

Harpo

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The last few HMVs I've been in has had the CD area right near the back of the store with a heavy push for vinyl & other stuff.
And a heavy emphasis on back catalogue CDs too. I’d prefer buying new releases in store but too many just don’t appear.
 

LancasterRed

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HMV has recently really got it together. The range of items they sell, including imports, is increasing. Games are now more prominent and if something new comes out I can find. Now if only the prices were more reasonable but that is likely a distributor issue.
 

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