Northern what to do if train cancelled

[40875704]

Edited as requested to conform to the Forum rules.

Northern is one of my local TOC's and I travel frequently and I was interested to find this on their site at https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/travel/train-cancellations

"What to do if your train is cancelled
If your Northern train is cancelled and you still wish to travel to your planned destination, you don't have to buy a new Northern ticket to travel that day. You can:

• Get on another Northern train
• Board any Transpennine Express or LNER train that's heading in the same direction
• Claim a full refund (if you no longer wish to travel)""

There is no limiting statement such as only while Storm Erwyn is blowing.

Is this correct for all time?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jan 2025 ==

Just found some limitations: [However since my original, non conformist, post Northern appear to have tidied things up and it's all in one place] Maybe they read this thread?

The limitations I found were "You can travel on other Northern trains (before or after your original time) to get you to your destination that day.
Where possible travel the same route as your original service.
You can also use a TransPennine Express, Southeastern or LNER service to get to your destination within two hours either side of the time of your cancelled service."

The new version at https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/travel/train-cancellations now reads:

"What to do if your train is cancelled
If your Northern train is cancelled and you still wish to travel to your planned destination, you don't have to buy a new Northern ticket to travel that day. You can:

• Get on another Northern train
• Board any Transpennine Express or LNER train that's heading in the same direction (within 2 hours)
• Claim a full refund (if you no longer wish to travel)"

 

[jfollows]

Even with an advance ticket, you’ve always been able to use the next service from the same operator, and now TPE and LNER are treated as the “same operator” because they’re all operated by the government “operator of last resort”.
So, yes, it’s correct.
(Apparently Southeastern also, however unlikely.)

If the ticket isn’t an advance ticket then it’s likely that options are even less restricted, ie any train from any operator depending on the actual ticket held.

 

[hexagon789]

Just seen this on Northerns site:

##What to do if your train is cancelled​

If your Northern train is cancelled and you still wish to travel to your planned destination, you don't have to buy a new Northern ticket to travel that day. You can:

• Get on another Northern train
• Board any Transpennine Express or LNER train that's heading in the same direction
• Claim a full refund (if you no longer wish to travel)##

There is no limiting statement such as only while Storm Erwyn is blowing.

Is this correct for all time?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jan 2025 ==

Just found some limitations:

You can travel on other Northern trains (before or after your original time) to get you to your destination that day.

Where possible travel the same route as your original service.

You can also use a TransPennine Express, Southeastern or LNER service to get to your destination within two hours either side of the time of your cancelled service.

Yes, since December all 4 DfT TOCs have a mutual acceptance policy.

 

[Haywain]

Just seen this on Northerns site:

##What to do if your train is cancelled​

If your Northern train is cancelled and you still wish to travel to your planned destination, you don't have to buy a new Northern ticket to travel that day. You can:

• Get on another Northern train
• Board any Transpennine Express or LNER train that's heading in the same direction
• Claim a full refund (if you no longer wish to travel)##

There is no limiting statement such as only while Storm Erwyn is blowing.

Is this correct for all time?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Jan 2025 ==

Just found some limitations:

You can travel on other Northern trains (before or after your original time) to get you to your destination that day.

Where possible travel the same route as your original service.

You can also use a TransPennine Express, Southeastern or LNER service to get to your destination within two hours either side of the time of your cancelled service.

Which part of that is from the Northern site and which part is your own comments?

 

[40875704]

Just these bits:
Just seen this on Northerns site:
Is this correct for all time?
Just found some limitations:
# #

 

[gray1404]

Does this also include Northern Complimentary Tickets?

 

[40875704]

Would the same principle apply if the train was delayed and connections missed?
Northern's site specifically talks about cancelled trains.

 

[jfollows]

Would the same principle apply if the train was delayed and connections missed?
Northern's site specifically talks about cancelled trains.

You’ve always been able to catch a later train under these circumstances. The clarity is that you can use one of the other three operators’ services as well.

 

[stra200]

The wording seems to suggest that there are no peak/off peak restrictions? So if my off-peak afternoon ticket into Man Pic is cancelled I allowed to take the later peak train?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The wording seems to suggest that there are no peak/off peak restrictions? So if my off-peak afternoon ticket into Man Pic is cancelled I allowed to take the later peak train?

I wouldn't be surprised if staff argued about that, but according to the rules yes.

 

[Watershed]

The wording seems to suggest that there are no peak/off peak restrictions? So if my off-peak afternoon ticket into Man Pic is cancelled I allowed to take the later peak train?

Yes, if your intended train is cancelled then you can take the previous 2 or next 2 trains regardless of peak restrictions.

Not all Off-Peak fares have evening restrictions. For travel to/from Manchester it's only stations within Greater Manchester, plus a couple of immediately adjacent stations*, where evening peak restrictions apply. Even then, some TOC-only fares (e.g. "TPE only") only have morning restrictions.

*Alderley Edge, Birchwood, Burscough Bridge, Disley, Handforth, Hoscar, New Mills Central, New Mills Newtown, Padgate, Parbold, Styal, Warrington Bank Quay, Warrington Central, and Wilmslow.

 

[jfollows]

Exactly, if Northern cancel the 15:38 Manchester-Wilmslow and I have got a ticket which restricts me to using Northern in some way, then I shouldn't have to wait until after 6pm should I? I know the railway can be bonkers at times but this would be going too far, it's their "fault" that my valid train was cancelled after all.

And, yes, it’s annoying that I don’t get the benefit of free tram travel in Manchester because Wilmslow is outside Greater Manchester but it’s annoying to have to suffer the ”evening peak” restrictions anyway.

 

[mm333]

You’ve always been able to catch a later train under these circumstances. The clarity is that you can use one of the other three operators’ services as well.

That's useful as the forum's ticketing site sometimes suggests I get LNER Kings Cross-Doncaster and then Northern Doncaster-Leeds. So at least now - if the LNER is delayed - I could get the next LNER to Leeds (or, if it's a Leeds service I'm on, just stay on that train)?

Previously, I would have had to have waited for the next Leeds stopper.

 

[tomoufc]

Yes, since December all 4 DfT TOCs have a mutual acceptance policy.

So an immediate benefit from renationalisation. This kind of ticket nonsense will soon be history.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Jan 2025 ==

I wouldn't be surprised if staff argued about that, but according to the rules yes.

Hasn’t it always been the case that if disruption to services puts you in the peak, then you shouldn’t need to excess the ticket?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Jan 2025 ==

Yes, since December all 4 DfT TOCs have a mutual acceptance policy.

I wonder how it works with routes? Say if i have a MCV-LDS northern advance via the Calder Valley, and my train is cancelled, can I get the next TPE via Huddersfield?

And what about other nationalised operations - eg is there mutual acceptance between Northern and TfW between Crewe and Stockport?

 

[Haywain]

This kind of ticket nonsense will soon be history.

I would advise against holding your breath while waiting.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Jan 2025 ==

is there mutual acceptance between Northern and TfW between Crewe and Stockport?

They are under completely separate ownership, so there is no reason that should apply.

 

[tomoufc]

So an immediate benefit from renationalisation. This kind of ticket nonsense will soon be history.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Jan 2025 ==


Hasn’t it always been the case that if disruption to services puts you in the peak, then you shouldn’t need to excess the ticket?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Jan 2025 ==


I wonder how it works with routes? Say if i have a MCV-LDS northern advance via the Calder Valley, and my train is cancelled, can I get the next TPE via Huddersfield

If ownership is the issue, then we're going to get the same problems between Nothern and Bee Network aren't we - and LNER/Scotrail. Surely if it's state owned, the mutual acceptance should apply? Maybe one for GBR to iron out?

 

[Haywain]

we're going to get the same problems between Nothern and Bee Network aren't we - and LNER/Scotrail.

Bee Network don't operate trains. LNER and Scotrail don't have automatic ticket acceptance.

Surely if it's state owned, the mutual acceptance should apply?

That's your opinion, and you are welcome to it. Reality may not be the same.

 

[tomoufc]

Bee Network don't operate trains. LNER and Scotrail don't have automatic ticket acceptance.

That's your opinion, and you are welcome to it. Reality may not be the same.

In which case it seems an odd political choice, unless it is essentially an unintended consequence.

Commiserations on your season, by the way

 

[sheff1]

They are under completely separate ownership, so there is no reason that should apply.

There is a very good reason. If services are disrupted, it should be possible to use alternative services regardless of ‘ownership’. It is, after all, supposed to be a national network (a successor to British Rail).

 

[40875704]

Would the same principle apply if the train was delayed and connections missed?
Northern's site specifically talks about cancelled trains.

I'm not sure this point got answered so I will repeat it and add a scenario.
Supposing the Northern to Leeds stopper was delayed by 10 minutes and within that 10 minutes there was an LNER service to Leeds would I be allowed to switch?

 

[317 forever]

If Northern cancel the Saturday 9.04 direct train from Stockport to Guide Bridge (and on to Stalybridge) this could cause a problem for people who have purchased the £4.80 single ticket not valid via Manchester.

In that scenario people should be allowed to use a connection via Manchester at an equivalent time, in particular those departing Stockport at 8.40 or 9.26.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If Northern cancel the Saturday 9.04 direct train from Stockport to Guide Bridge (and on to Stalybridge) this could cause a problem for people who have purchased the £4.80 single ticket not valid via Manchester.

In that scenario people should be allowed to use a connection via Manchester at an equivalent time, in particular those departing Stockport at 8.40 or 9.26.

They would be. But most of them are just riding that for the sake of it and so would just get a refund or keep the ticket as a souvenir, or if on a Wayfarer go and do something else instead.

 

[TUC]

There is still a lack of awareness amongst staff of these provisions. I was on the 1803 Kings Cross-Leeds (then to Skipton) service tonight which was terminated at Doncaster 82 minutes late due to trespassers on the line. Given that the next LNER service was also running late, the next connection to Leeds was the 2128 Northern service. However, the LNER member of staff at Doncaster was advising passengers that they would need to speak to the Northern conductor regarding LNER tickets being accepted. When I pointed out the relevant LNER webpage setting out cross-acceptance in the case of cancellations, he said I would still need to speak to the conductor for safety reasons as the train may be too full. When I boarded it, the train was around one quarter full. It is hard to see what was said as anything but a spurious excuse.