Eurostar St Pancras - is bedlam normal?

[ThameslinkUser]

surely it would be easier and cheaper to bring Stratford International into use in order to spread the passengers over 2 London stations rather than spend a huge amount of money re-developing St Pancras ?.

Lol the entire fitout and commissioning of what will effectively be an entirely new station vs closing some shops?

 

[jon0844]

St Pancras is having a set of EES enrolment machines installed in half of what used to be Benugo under the departure boards. That's pre-ticket control, so I wonder how rigidly the 'same day departure' requirement will be enforced in practice (particularly once the system beds in, I can see it being fairly strict to start with)

Poor Benugo seems to get shunted around all the time!

 

[mad_rich]

I don't understand why HS1 and Getlink - and maybe some other interests parties - haven't got together to propose fitting-out Stratford. Slots there would sell like hot cakes - either to Eurostar or a competitor.

Eurostar's objection to using it was that it was daft to stop trains 7 minutes out from St Pancras. Fair enough. But things have changed: St Pancras is at capacity, Stratford is now very well connected, and it's possible/ appealing to turn trains there.

IIRC, it would require switching Southeastern to P1 and P4, so that continental trains could use the crossover to the east of the station from P2 and P3. This would require 200m trains, but I think that's no longer a problem through the tunnel. And it would make a service more viable if you don't have to sell 900 seats on every departure.

Yes, you have to fit the station out and staff it. But I don't understand why everybody thinks that's impossible?

Improve St Pancras too, but that's just marginal gains at this point. Stratford would massively grow the market.

 

[RT4038]

I don't understand why HS1 and Getlink - and maybe some other interests parties - haven't got together to propose fitting-out Stratford. Slots there would sell like hot cakes - either to Eurostar or a competitor.

Is there some evidence that slots would sell 'like hot cakes' ? These slots are not going to be cheap - the charge for them would have to include the costs of fitting out the station, and the immigration/customs/security/customer staff and operations [ these are not provided free by Government or anyone else......] presence to deal with the passengers. Couple that with the HS1, Tunnel and French high speed line access charges, and there is probably a reason why 900 seat trains are operated by E* - in order to spread the fixed costs over a large number of passengers per train.

 

[signed]

I don't understand why HS1 and Getlink - and maybe some other interests parties - haven't got together to propose fitting-out Stratford. Slots there would sell like hot cakes - either to Eurostar or a competitor.

Isn't the operator responsible for those costs? I don't think Getlink/HS1 have anything to do with it

 

[RT4038]

Isn't the operator responsible for those costs? I don't think Getlink/HS1 have anything to do with it

Presumably the operator would be responsible for the costs through the slot charge (if Getlink/HS1 are happy to provide the capital?)

 

[signed]

Is there some evidence that slots would sell 'like hot cakes' ?

Though I am a big proponent of Stratford, I would say no chance, especially as I recall reading that there would be no space for terminating trains.

Especially now that Brexit has taken place, it's even less appealing. Ashford would probably be a better deal, with a low-cost service like was tried on ex-Thalys with IzY, but even then it's sloppy

And even before Brexit, DB was rumored to take a service from Frankfurt with the use of Stratford as an intermediate stop, it never happened

If there was space to terminate and turnaround trains, then yes, it may be useful

 

[ainsworth74]

Is there some evidence that slots would sell 'like hot cakes' ?

Well there's been lots of organisations (some more serious than others!) announcing plans to provide cross-channel services in the last twelve months or so. That would tend to suggest that if additional capacity for a London terminus (ish) was made available that there would be takers for it. Of course, depending on the price that was commanded! As others have noted fitting out Stratford and then paying the required costs (however those are charged, be it directly to the operators or via their HS1/station access fees) will not be at all cheap.

But, it would appear that there is at least sufficient interest of providing additional services to suggest that additional slots would be popular.

 

[mad_rich]

Isn't the operator responsible for those costs? I don't think Getlink/HS1 have anything to do with it

I’m assuming one operator doesn’t have the expertise/ capital/ vision/ risk appetite to build a new terminal, but a consortium of interested parties might be able to get something off the ground.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Sep 2024 ==

If there was space to terminate and turnaround trains, then yes, it may be useful

I’m pretty sure that trains could turn around at Stratford if they used platforms 2&3, and Southeastern moved to 1&4. That way they can use the crossover, and are not required to go into St Pancras.

Terminating trains could occupy a platform long enough to detrain, clean and reboard.

 

[dazzler]

I’m pretty sure that trains could turn around at Stratford if they used platforms 2&3, and Southeastern moved to 1&4. That way they can use the crossover, and are not required to go into St Pancras.

Terminating trains could occupy a platform long enough to detrain, clean and reboard.

You are aware that platforms 2&3 are UK height and distance from the rails and platforms 1&4 are continental height and distance**?
Also, the main building upstairs would need completely gutting and rebuilding, as platforms 1&4 currently exit into what was intended to be the controlled area for international trains and 2&3 don't.

** During the London 2012 Olympics, platforms 1&4 were temporarily raised for use by class 395 trains operating the "Javelin" shuttles between St. Pancras and Ebbsfleet.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Less than 30 you run the risk to be denied boarding. More than 60 you risk having to queue until access opens.

They actually recommend 90 minutes, but when we turned up at 0430 last Monday for the 0601 departure, there was already a massive queue - and they didn't open the checkins until 0445 anyway.

 

[Meerkat]

I’m pretty sure that trains could turn around at Stratford if they used platforms 2&3, and Southeastern moved to 1&4. That way they can use the crossover, and are not required to go into St Pancras.

There isn’t a problem with the train popping into St Pancras to be serviced and then return to Stratford to pick up the outward bound passengers is there -I thought there were plenty of platform slots at St Pancras just not enough capacity for the passengers?

 

[SynthD]

Terminating trains could occupy a platform long enough to detrain, clean and reboard.

Is that time for domestic or international standard of cleaning and checking? This may also apply to doing this task at St Pancras.

 

[Meerkat]

Is that time for domestic or international standard of cleaning and checking? This may also apply to doing this task at St Pancras.

I thought that but then looked and realised there are through lines at Stratford - presumably Eurostar trains never go through the International platforms so you could sit there for ages without causing an issue.

 

[stuu]

I don't understand why HS1 and Getlink - and maybe some other interests parties - haven't got together to propose fitting-out Stratford. Slots there would sell like hot cakes - either to Eurostar or a competitor.

Eurostar's objection to using it was that it was daft to stop trains 7 minutes out from St Pancras. Fair enough. But things have changed: St Pancras is at capacity, Stratford is now very well connected, and it's possible/ appealing to turn trains there.

The track layout makes it difficult to turn trains there, they need to move onto the main line and then reverse into the line towards the depot, and then repeat to access the opposite platform. That would be a very slow process with 400m long trains

 

[paul1609]

You are aware that platforms 2&3 are UK height and distance from the rails and platforms 1&4 are continental height and distance**?
Also, the main building upstairs would need completely gutting and rebuilding, as platforms 1&4 currently exit into what was intended to be the controlled area for international trains and 2&3 don't.

** During the London 2012 Olympics, platforms 1&4 were temporarily raised for use by class 395 trains operating the "Javelin" shuttles between St. Pancras and Ebbsfleet.

Not to mention that Eurostar platforms are about a third as long again as domestic platforms.
"We will shortly be arriving at London Stratford International would passengers please note that you can only alight from the front 11 coaches of this 16 coach train this is due to a short platform." The train would foul the crossovers and the through lines.
Of course you could remove the crossovers or enlarge the box that the station was built in. Firmly in Crayonista territory I'm afraid.

 

[TFN]

Eurostar are removing Smartcheck at St Pancras from 13th Feb. Surprisingly I got no emails regarding this but there’s signs with a QR code at check-in stating this.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Eurostar are removing Smartcheck at St Pancras from 13th Feb

Genuinely the most upsetting news I've heard in a while.

 

[BahrainLad]

As in the iProov service?

 

[TFN]

As in the iProov service?

That’s correct. Here’s a quote from the site that the QR code led to:

From 13 February 2025, SmartCheck will no longer be available. The SmartCheck lane will become an extra priority lane for Eurostar Premier passengers and Carte Blanche and Étoile Club Eurostar members who will have access to additional passport control booths and ePassport gates via a dedicated route.

We’re removing SmartCheck as we continue to make some changes at the station in preparation for the launch of the EU’s new Entry/Exit System (EES). As part of these preparations, we’re improving our border control area with new ePassport gates and extra passport control booths. This will help us ensure the border control process is as smooth as possible for passengers travelling in the coming months and after EES has launched.

 

[Mawkie]

As in the iProov service?

Such as shame as that system was excellent in my opinion.

 

[njr001]

I'll second that, iProov worked great for me last year, such a pity

 

[itfcfan]

It was good while it lasted! All my Eurostar trips in 2024 were far more relaxed (at the London end at least) due to using iProov.

The URL that confirms the quote above is here:

London St Pancras station: departures & facilities | Eurostar

Learn everything you need to know about train station London St Pancras – from when to arrive and the departure process to accessible travel and station facilities.

www.eurostar.com

From 13 February 2025, SmartCheck will no longer be available. The SmartCheck lane will become an extra priority lane for Eurostar Premier passengers and Carte Blanche and Étoile Club Eurostar members who will have access to additional passport control booths and ePassport gates via a dedicated route.

We’re removing SmartCheck as we continue to make some changes at the station in preparation for the launch of the EU’s new Entry/Exit System (EES). As part of these preparations, we’re improving our border control area with new ePassport gates and extra passport control booths. This will help us ensure the border control process is as smooth as possible for passengers travelling in the coming months and after EES has launched.

I read elsewhere that not many of the Business Premier / Carte Blanche passengers this was marketed towards used the service as it wasn't much different to their normal experience (15 mins standard check-in deadline). Possibly that convinced Eurostar it wasn't worth continuing? It would have interesting to see how this would have worked if Eurostar scaled it up and marketed it more widely to other passengers.

 

[Birkonian]

It was good while it lasted! All my Eurostar trips in 2024 were far more relaxed (at the London end at least) due to using iProov.

The URL that confirms the quote above is here:

London St Pancras station: departures & facilities | Eurostar

Learn everything you need to know about train station London St Pancras – from when to arrive and the departure process to accessible travel and station facilities.

www.eurostar.com

I read elsewhere that not many of the Business Premier / Carte Blanche passengers this was marketed towards used the service as it wasn't much different to their normal experience (15 mins standard check-in deadline). Possibly that convinced Eurostar it wasn't worth continuing? It would have interesting to see how this would have worked if Eurostar scaled it up and marketed it more widely to other passengers.

I used it twice on Standard Premier tickets. It was wonderful. Street to waiting area in less than 5 minutes.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Think the fastest I got from 'landside' to 'airside' was 30 seconds. Seriously impressive tech that ought to cover half the check in lanes as opposed to 0.

 

[Goldfish62]

I used it twice on Standard Premier tickets. It was wonderful. Street to waiting area in less than 5 minutes.

How did you manage that without having a "full-fat" 1st Premium ticket?

 

[BahrainLad]

How did you manage that without having a "full-fat" 1st Premium ticket?

It worked for any type of ticket. There was no validation of the class of travel using iProov, IIRC all it used to do was check for a valid booking reference. They only *publicised* it as being available for Premier passengers, presumably to try and stop loads of people using it. But the reality didn’t match the publicity!

 

[country_end_37]

It worked for any type of ticket. There was no validation of the class of travel using iProov, IIRC all it used to do was check for a valid booking reference. They only *publicised* it as being available for Premier passengers, presumably to try and stop loads of people using it. But the reality didn’t match the publicity!

When my partner and I experienced this for the first time (I think discovering it via a post on this very forum) it was like a warm hug, an experiential glimpse of smoother international travel, and all available with the cheapest Standard ticket—a token of a better age, a prefiguration of a future cross-border public transport world. I even recommended Eurostar to people based on my experience with the iProov.me gates, just how hassle-free the process was, and how all the horror stories they'd heard and seen photos of didn't have to be true. I had assumed that Eurostar would eventually roll it out across the whole departures area, not remove it entirely. Oh well.

 

[sh24]

A similar trajectory to the late lamented IRIS at airports.

 

[Failed Unit]

It was good while it lasted! All my Eurostar trips in 2024 were far more relaxed (at the London end at least) due to using iProov.

The URL that confirms the quote above is here:

London St Pancras station: departures & facilities | Eurostar

Learn everything you need to know about train station London St Pancras – from when to arrive and the departure process to accessible travel and station facilities.

www.eurostar.com

I read elsewhere that not many of the Business Premier / Carte Blanche passengers this was marketed towards used the service as it wasn't much different to their normal experience (15 mins standard check-in deadline). Possibly that convinced Eurostar it wasn't worth continuing? It would have interesting to see how this would have worked if Eurostar scaled it up and marketed it more widely to other passengers.

As a Carte Blanche use, I can see the point, you normally have 0 queue. The extra step of giving the ticket information isn’t that time consuming, however when the queue is normally 2 people max it is a problem that doesn’t need solving.

However to anyone on Standard / Standard Premier, it would save loads of time. I did wonder what they would do if it caught on as the scanning actually is actually more time consuming then UK passport control.