Did the equivalent of Beeching happen with buses?

[Dyncymraeg]

There are often discussions on this forum about the Beeching cuts to railways. I am curious where there periods in British history when major cuts were made to bus services

 

[Bletchleyite]

Austerity saw massive cuts where some Council areas now have no subsidised bus services at all. But you get much less publicity, and unlike rail it's easily reversed if money becomes available.

 

[ainsworth74]

There are often discussions on this forum about the Beeching cuts to railways. I am curious where there periods in British history when major cuts were made to bus services

Yes we've been living through it right now!

Bus services have been cut by more than 80% in the past 15 years in some parts of England and Wales in a “silent war” on users, research has found.

Outside London, bus services plummeted by more than 60% in 80 local authority areas, the study added.

The University of Leeds, in conjunction with the charity Friends of the Earth, examined timetables across England and Wales since 2008. It found urban and rural services had decreased by 48% and 52% respectively – with some localities faring worse than others.

The findings showed that in Hart, Fenland and Broxtowe there had been a decline of more than 80%. Other constituencies without consistent bus services were North East Hampshire, with an 82% drop in services, and Bridgwater in Somerset, with an 81% decrease. Staffordshire Moorland and Stoke-on-Trent North have experienced the same reduction in services at 78%.

Bus services cut by more than 80% in parts of England and Wales since 2008, finds study

Research of timetables reveals ‘silent war’ on bus users outside London

www.theguardian.com

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I would say the period of the Market Analysis Project would be the equivalent. That led to substantial service revisions and reductions in National Bus Company subsidiaries. A quick internet search doesn't give exact date but mid 1970's to mid 1980's would fit.

This book review of the Western National MAP area gives a good overall view, or buy the book for the detailed view! A quote from the book used in the blog “from the customer’s point of view, despite the hype of ‘new improved services’ there was little to shout about. In most cases post MAP the network coverage, span of operation and level of frequency was worse than before.”

 

[Bevan Price]

Bus deregulation in 1986 had a bad effect. Local authorities were "encouraged" to sell local bus operation to private operators. Cross-subsidisation of routes was discouraged. The new owners wanted much higher returns on capital, so "marginal" & loss-making routes were withdrawn, or had reduced frequencies making them more unattractive - losing passengers and eventually more route withdrawals. Some of the new owners must have made fortunes by selling bus station sites to property developers, making facilities less attractive for passengers.

New operators appeared - including some "cowboys" - but many operated on only a few very busy trunk routes - and many went out of business within a few years.

The formation of Passenger Transport Executives / Authorities in 1974, as part of local government reorganisation, also had bad effects. Municipal bus fleets were dragged into a single PTE fleet. Fares were often "standardised" - usually at the level of the highest fares in the area. Passengers drifted away, services away from a few trunk routes declined,

 

[Roger1973]

There was no centrally planned round of cuts across the entire network, if that's what you mean.

A lot of cuts 'for the duration' were made in the 1939 war (and, to a lesser extent, as there were fewer buses then, in the 1914 war) to save on petrol / oil / rubber and to reflect the reduction in leisure traffic. And in the 1914 war, a number of buses were requisitioned by the military.

Bus use peaked somewhere in the 1950s - increased car ownership was one factor, but other factors including staff shortage (bus staff became comparatively less well paid after the war, against low unemployment / more alternative jobs being available), increased television ownership, so less trips to the cinema (and in an age before weekly tickets / travelcards, those journeys were paid for as well), changes to shopping habits as the end of shortages and fridge ownership meant that 'housewives' did not need to go food shopping every day.

Some operators suffered more than others from staff shortages and industrial relations problems, which in turn affected reliability and led to a spiral of decline with fewer passengers, increasing fares and reduced services - and while some staff were happy to work all the overtime that was available, some left the job because they didn't want to be working all the hours there were. London Transport bus workers had a strike of about 7 weeks in 1958 - this meant some passengers were lost for good, some staff got other jobs and didn't go back, and there was a large round of service cuts and garage closures in the aftermath. And the staff shortage got worse.

Most operators adopted a policy of 'managed decline'.

The Market Analysis Project in the National Bus Company (or SCOTMAP in the Scottish Bus Group) was rolled out in the late 70s / early 80s, and (as has been said) is the nearest thing to Beeching. This was a company by company (or area by area in the larger companies) review that led to a smaller, but less loss-making network in the aftermath.

The National Bus Company had inherited some historic situations that no longer made sense - Gravesend, for example, generally had London Country services to the west and Maidstone and District services to the east, each having a garage in the town. The outcome of this area was that the M and D garage was closed (there are other examples I can think of.) An upside of it was that companies were encouraged to make more of an effort with marketing - I wasn't in the business then, of course, but I get the feeling that anything beyond grudging provision of basic timetable information was seen as 'not the done thing'.

 

[RT4038]

There was no centrally planned round of cuts across the entire network, if that's what you mean.

A lot of cuts 'for the duration' were made in the 1939 war (and, to a lesser extent, as there were fewer buses then, in the 1914 war) to save on petrol / oil / rubber and to reflect the reduction in leisure traffic. And in the 1914 war, a number of buses were requisitioned by the military.

Bus use peaked somewhere in the 1950s - increased car ownership was one factor, but other factors including staff shortage (bus staff became comparatively less well paid after the war, against low unemployment / more alternative jobs being available), increased television ownership, so less trips to the cinema (and in an age before weekly tickets / travelcards, those journeys were paid for as well), changes to shopping habits as the end of shortages and fridge ownership meant that 'housewives' did not need to go food shopping every day.

Some operators suffered more than others from staff shortages and industrial relations problems, which in turn affected reliability and led to a spiral of decline with fewer passengers, increasing fares and reduced services - and while some staff were happy to work all the overtime that was available, some left the job because they didn't want to be working all the hours there were. London Transport bus workers had a strike of about 7 weeks in 1958 - this meant some passengers were lost for good, some staff got other jobs and didn't go back, and there was a large round of service cuts and garage closures in the aftermath. And the staff shortage got worse.

Most operators adopted a policy of 'managed decline'.

The Market Analysis Project in the National Bus Company (or SCOTMAP in the Scottish Bus Group) was rolled out in the late 70s / early 80s, and (as has been said) is the nearest thing to Beeching. This was a company by company (or area by area in the larger companies) review that led to a smaller, but less loss-making network in the aftermath.

The National Bus Company had inherited some historic situations that no longer made sense - Gravesend, for example, generally had London Country services to the west and Maidstone and District services to the east, each having a garage in the town. The outcome of this area was that the M and D garage was closed (there are other examples I can think of.) An upside of it was that companies were encouraged to make more of an effort with marketing - I wasn't in the business then, of course, but I get the feeling that anything beyond grudging provision of basic timetable information was seen as 'not the done thing'.

Most bus companies lurched into losses by 1970 (if not before) [with some exceptions particularly in the North, where mass car ownership came a little later]. After the BET group companies were sold to the Government, and the National Bus Company (NBC) was formed in 1970, the financial position of the NBC was dire. In 1971 all the loss making subsidiaries were instructed to demand subsidies (with menaces!) from the local authorities that they operated in. At that time, their was no clear power for Local authorities to subsidise bus services (except Municipally owned operations) - many of these authorities had no desire to take on this responsibility [ (a)with the view that the bus companies should be working out how to run these services without subsidy and (b) no desire to shoulder any of the cost, which was being effectively shouldered by central government at the time ]. Some local authorities paid up and some didn't. Hence the savage cuts to Western National - depot closures in Bude/Delabole/Tavistock etc , route cuts and whole areas abandoned, South Wales Transport (St David's/Fishguard area), Eastern Counties in Suffolk, London Country around Luton, Eastern Counties around Ipswich etc etc. Many of these services were replaced (in some way or another) by cheaper small operators. There was no national plan, just a national concept, which was unevenly applied due to differing attitudes of Local Authorities. The Local Government Act 1972 clarified the powers of Local Authories re bus subsidies, and imposed a co-ordinating role, and there was a bit more stability. However Local Authorites were often very critical of the opaqueness of the subsidy demands, and were very frustrated at their lack of influence over operating methods and costs. Hence some of the impetus towards deregulation.

Not every area had MAP - it all depended on the attitude of the Local Authority towards subsidies - areas that were generous and were happy to maintain the existing services (or only trimmings) were spared. Some companies had MAP in one LA area but not others.

As you point out, staff shortages, capital shortages for replacement vehicles, vehicle spare part shortages, industrial action by staff also played a significant part in reducing the size and scope of bus services.

 

[Justin Smith]

There are often discussions on this forum about the Beeching cuts to railways. I am curious where there periods in British history when major cuts were made to bus services

In South Yorkshire it certainly did !
I did this piece of research for a local history forum but it shows the appalling service compared with now (and it's also far more expensive and significantly less reliable) :

For those who do not know (pretty much all of you I'd have thought ! ) we have
Stocksbridge > (5 miles) Oughtibridge > (6 miles) Sheffield centre.

I have a 1978 timetable and was comparing the bus service from Sheffield to Stocksbridge and Oughtbridge to that available now.
It is shocking.
I know it was heavily subsidised but even so.....

1978 :
3 servs per hour to Stocksbridge (2 per hour after 18.00) last bus from town 23.00.
45 Minutes (Town to Unsliven Bridge), this was only 45min because Deepcar had the 66/67 doing a circular and Worrall had the 65/68 service, so the 57 did not have to divert all over the place to provide a service off the main road.
In addition Oughtibridge had the aforementioned 65/68 at two services per hour (1/hr after 18.00) up to 23.15, so that was 5 services/hr altogether from O/B to town.

2024 :
2 servs per hour to Stocksbridge (1 per hour after 18.00) last bus from town 22.50
65 Minutes (Town to Unsliven Bridge), due to no separate circular route or service to Worrall, so the 57 has to go all round the houses....
Oughtibridge now has just the 57 service at 2 per hour (and only 1 per hour after 18.00)

 

[Western Lord]

Despite the modern day obsession with the term "Windrush generation", it should be remembered that large scale immigration from the Caribbean actually happened in the 1950's as a direct consequence of staff shortages on the buses (London Transport had recruitment offices in the West Indies). It would be more accurate to use the description "bus conductor generation" to describe the increase in immigration from the area, and, of course, the immigrants from the Caribbean were only going to be conductors, not drivers (check out the disgraceful episode in Bristol in, IIRC, 1960 when the local bus company appointed a black man as a driver and all the white drivers went on strike, with the support locally of their Union). Unfortunately, the new recruits arrived just in time to see the decline in bus services due to the increase in car ownership (and in London the disastrous 1958 strike) and many found themselves without work.

 

[steamybrian]

In South Yorkshire it certainly did !
I did this piece of research for a local history forum but it shows the appalling service compared with now (and it's also far more expensive and significantly less reliable) :

For those who do not know (pretty much all of you I'd have thought ! ) we have
Stocksbridge > (5 miles) Oughtibridge > (6 miles) Sheffield centre.

I have a 1978 timetable and was comparing the bus service from Sheffield to Stocksbridge and Oughtbridge to that available now.
It is shocking.
I know it was heavily subsidised but even so.....

1978 :
3 servs per hour to Stocksbridge (2 per hour after 18.00) last bus from town 23.00.
45 Minutes (Town to Unsliven Bridge), this was only 45min because Deepcar had the 66/67 doing a circular and Worrall had the 65/68 service, so the 57 did not have to divert all over the place to provide a service off the main road.
In addition Oughtibridge had the aforementioned 65/68 at two services per hour (1/hr after 18.00) up to 23.15, so that was 5 services/hr altogether from O/B to town.

2024 :
2 servs per hour to Stocksbridge (1 per hour after 18.00) last bus from town 22.50
65 Minutes (Town to Unsliven Bridge), due to no separate circular route or service to Worrall, so the 57 has to go all round the houses....
Oughtibridge now has just the 57 service at 2 per hour (and only 1 per hour after 18.00)

At least there still is a bus service..!
There are plenty of places around the country where the bus service has been completely withdrawn.

 

[RT4038]

Unfortunately, the new recruits arrived just in time to see the decline in bus services due to the increase in car ownership (and in London the disastrous 1958 strike) and many found themselves without work.

This is not correct. None [or only a tiny few in specific circumstances] of those recruited specifically for the bus industry found themselves out of work due to a decline in bus services, apart from possibly much later if they had not trained to be drivers when the final conversions to one person operation was completed.

 

[bristolianre]

A 1920s national bus timetable 'Travel By Road' by Charles E Lee was able to list every bus and tramcar route (other than high-frequency short-length urban and city routes) in the country by a list of a) routes with running times in minutes from zero for one direction only [you could compute the other direction for yourself using these data]; b) frequency (or frequencies); c) first and last services; d) initial departure times for other part-runs.
At a time of little other traffic and the driver concerned only with driving, the same point-to-point timings held good for any time of the day or day of the week.
With the demise of conductors, a huge rise in other traffic and also a longer dalliance at each bus stop for fare collection and ticket inspection -- particularly at peak passenger and traffic congestion times (commuting), there can be a dozen or more sets of running times by time of day or week for a given route/service to reflect actual service achievability.
So degradation in bus travel has been gradual over the last century rather than being marked by a single event -- other than times of national emergency, such as two world wars and two pandemics.

 

[Justin Smith]

A 1920s national bus timetable 'Travel By Road' by Charles E Lee was able to list every bus and tramcar route (other than high-frequency short-length urban and city routes) in the country by a list of a) routes with running times in minutes from zero for one direction only [you could compute the other direction for yourself using these data]; b) frequency (or frequencies); c) first and last services; d) initial departure times for other part-runs.
At a time of little other traffic and the driver concerned only with driving, the same point-to-point timings held good for any time of the day or day of the week.
With the demise of conductors, a huge rise in other traffic and also a longer dalliance at each bus stop for fare collection and ticket inspection -- particularly at peak passenger and traffic congestion times (commuting), there can be a dozen or more sets of running times by time of day or week for a given route/service to reflect actual service achievability.
So degradation in bus travel has been gradual over the last century rather than being marked by a single event -- other than times of national emergency, such as two world wars and two pandemics.

The point you make about one man operation buses being significantly slower is true, and not just for the bus, but for all the cars which often have to wait behind it at the bus stop !
Another aspect is that people don't generally like working on their own, if I were a bus driver I'd much prefer to have worked with a colleague. Not just for the safety aspect but also the social.

 

[RT4038]

A 1920s national bus timetable 'Travel By Road' by Charles E Lee was able to list every bus and tramcar route (other than high-frequency short-length urban and city routes) in the country by a list of a) routes with running times in minutes from zero for one direction only [you could compute the other direction for yourself using these data]; b) frequency (or frequencies); c) first and last services; d) initial departure times for other part-runs.
At a time of little other traffic and the driver concerned only with driving, the same point-to-point timings held good for any time of the day or day of the week.
With the demise of conductors, a huge rise in other traffic and also a longer dalliance at each bus stop for fare collection and ticket inspection -- particularly at peak passenger and traffic congestion times (commuting), there can be a dozen or more sets of running times by time of day or week for a given route/service to reflect actual service achievability.
So degradation in bus travel has been gradual over the last century rather than being marked by a single event -- other than times of national emergency, such as two world wars and two pandemics.

Not forgetting the roads now littered with traffic calming, roundabouts and, on longer distance routes, by passes for buses to weave in and out of. Houses were generally built either near the main roads or in large estates commanding their own services, and relatively few schoolchildren travelled by bus to school (which would have been in the centre of town so no deviance from route required). The elderly and infirm were not considered (and anyway had little need to travel).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jan 2025 ==

The point you make about one man operation buses being significantly slower is true, and not just for the bus, but for all the cars which often have to wait behind it at the bus stop !
Another aspect is that people don't generally like working on their own, if I were a bus driver I'd much prefer to have worked with a colleague. Not just for the safety aspect but also the social.

Sadly, as working conditions for bus staff got better, the passengers did not want to pay the fares required for a crew of two.....

 

[Bletchleyite]

The point you make about one man operation buses being significantly slower is true, and not just for the bus, but for all the cars which often have to wait behind it at the bus stop !
Another aspect is that people don't generally like working on their own, if I were a bus driver I'd much prefer to have worked with a colleague. Not just for the safety aspect but also the social.

One man operation buses with single doors and the driver taking fares are significantly slower. London style operation with multiple doors and payment by contactless only is no slower than conductor-operated Routemasters, and faced with large crowds can sometimes actually be faster because with a RM you had to wait for people to alight before boarding.

 

[Justin Smith]

One man operation buses with single doors and the driver taking fares are significantly slower. London style operation with multiple doors and payment by contactless only is no slower than conductor-operated Routemasters, and faced with large crowds can sometimes actually be faster because with a RM you had to wait for people to alight before boarding.

Don't get me onto that, it's supposed to be publicly subsidised public transport equally accessible to all.

 

[Statto]

In South Yorkshire it certainly did !
I did this piece of research for a local history forum but it shows the appalling service compared with now (and it's also far more expensive and significantly less reliable) :

For those who do not know (pretty much all of you I'd have thought ! ) we have
Stocksbridge > (5 miles) Oughtibridge > (6 miles) Sheffield centre.

I have a 1978 timetable and was comparing the bus service from Sheffield to Stocksbridge and Oughtbridge to that available now.
It is shocking.
I know it was heavily subsidised but even so.....

1978 :
3 servs per hour to Stocksbridge (2 per hour after 18.00) last bus from town 23.00.
45 Minutes (Town to Unsliven Bridge), this was only 45min because Deepcar had the 66/67 doing a circular and Worrall had the 65/68 service, so the 57 did not have to divert all over the place to provide a service off the main road.
In addition Oughtibridge had the aforementioned 65/68 at two services per hour (1/hr after 18.00) up to 23.15, so that was 5 services/hr altogether from O/B to town.

2024 :
2 servs per hour to Stocksbridge (1 per hour after 18.00) last bus from town 22.50
65 Minutes (Town to Unsliven Bridge), due to no separate circular route or service to Worrall, so the 57 has to go all round the houses....
Oughtibridge now has just the 57 service at 2 per hour (and only 1 per hour after 18.00)

My area Moreton, Wirral has similar been affected by bus cuts, that were left with 4 core routes, 38/407/413/414 Evening & Sunday it's just the 38A & 423, along with the Moreton Circulars 1/1A/1B/1C which is one bus changing numbers, & 16/16A/17, also 811 which only operates a few times a day.

At deregulation the core routes were, 33/35/37/38/39/40/42/43/45/45A/421, at the time the 42 & 43 were one of those routes because of a double run that operated one way

Here a map from deregulation

Wirral MAP 261086.pdf

drive.google.com

Here's a map from 2020, which shows the effect of the cuts since deregulation

Wirral MAP 000020.pdf

drive.google.com

In my area it was after Arriva brought MTL when the cuts really started, that were left with the routes we have today, & we had a network review in 2017 which had more cuts.

 

[edwin_m]

The point you make about one man operation buses being significantly slower is true, and not just for the bus, but for all the cars which often have to wait behind it at the bus stop !

Don't get me onto that [contactless], it's supposed to be publicly subsidised public transport equally accessible to all.

You appear to be holding two contradictory views here. Do you favour buses going contactless-only to run faster, running slower and taking cash, or needing higher fares or subsidy to bring conductors back?

 

[Justin Smith]

You appear to be holding two contradictory views here. Do you favour buses going contactless-only to run faster, running slower and taking cash, or needing higher fares or subsidy to bring conductors back?

No I'm not holding contradictory views.
The buses running faster is not the same argument as saying people can only use a bus if they have a bank account and/or an Oyster card.
I can remember getting screwed by this no cash thing in Utrecht. I had to use my card for every journey but I got stung for a significant "foreign transaction fee" every time I did so. I was not happy at all. And not everyone has a bank account anyway.
Similarly in Skeggy where you can only use the public loo if you pay with a card, and, because we were on the beach we had not took our cards ! I was even less happy I can tell you ! ! ! Publicly funded services have no right to limit access in that way (and that's loos or buses ! ).

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

Bus deregulation in 1986 had a bad effect. Local authorities were "encouraged" to sell local bus operation to private operators. Cross-subsidisation of routes was discouraged. The new owners wanted much higher returns on capital, so "marginal" & loss-making routes were withdrawn, or had reduced frequencies making them more unattractive - losing passengers and eventually more route withdrawals. Some of the new owners must have made fortunes by selling bus station sites to property developers, making facilities less attractive for passengers.

New operators appeared - including some "cowboys" - but many operated on only a few very busy trunk routes - and many went out of business within a few years.

The formation of Passenger Transport Executives / Authorities in 1974, as part of local government reorganisation, also had bad effects. Municipal bus fleets were dragged into a single PTE fleet. Fares were often "standardised" - usually at the level of the highest fares in the area. Passengers drifted away, services away from a few trunk routes declined,

Cross-subsidy of routes wasn't just discouraged it was outlawed in the transport act that brought in deregulation.
Operators were required to register only services that they could run commercially (i.e. at a profit) and give the rest up. The local authority or PTE as appropriate would then look at the abandoned routes and decide which ones to put out to tender. This led to widespread cuts in some areas depending on the attitude and/or financial capability of the local authority.
Some operators fudged it to some extent and registered loss making routes or early morning/evening journeys that didn't make money as commercial journeys, withstanding the loss to prevent giving other operators an opening - but most didn't.
Meanwhile I believe Pennine of Gargrave and later Skipton subsided their buses using money from property investments- nobody in government had thought of this so it wasn't actually banned!

 

[Teapot42]

In South Yorkshire it certainly did !
I did this piece of research for a local history forum but it shows the appalling service compared with now (and it's also far more expensive and significantly less reliable) :
...

That's actually quite a small reduction. I've found timetables for our local area from the 80s. We had a bus every 10 minutes on the main route, plus another 3 an hour on various other routes. In 2023 this was dropped to a single bus an hour, having been 2x hourly for many years before. It was restored to 2x hourly last year, but with a route variation meaning certain areas in effect only get direct buses one way.

You mention slower services, that is pretty much the case everywhere. Partly due to longer routes, partly due to having to make allowance for traffic. Our route is only around 16-17 minutes from town, but in 1988 it was 10 minutes.

Similarly, we used to have a peak-time bus to Sheffield which took just under 55 minutes. It's now 1h20 with a change.

 

[Surreyman]

Most bus companies lurched into losses by 1970 (if not before) [with some exceptions particularly in the North, where mass car ownership came a little later]. After the BET group companies were sold to the Government, and the National Bus Company (NBC) was formed in 1970, the financial position of the NBC was dire. In 1971 all the loss making subsidiaries were instructed to demand subsidies (with menaces!) from the local authorities that they operated in. At that time, their was no clear power for Local authorities to subsidise bus services (except Municipally owned operations) - many of these authorities had no desire to take on this responsibility [ (a)with the view that the bus companies should be working out how to run these services without subsidy and (b) no desire to shoulder any of the cost, which was being effectively shouldered by central government at the time ]. Some local authorities paid up and some didn't. Hence the savage cuts to Western National - depot closures in Bude/Delabole/Tavistock etc , route cuts and whole areas abandoned, South Wales Transport (St David's/Fishguard area), Eastern Counties in Suffolk, London Country around Luton, Eastern Counties around Ipswich etc etc. Many of these services were replaced (in some way or another) by cheaper small operators. There was no national plan, just a national concept, which was unevenly applied due to differing attitudes of Local Authorities. The Local Government Act 1972 clarified the powers of Local Authories re bus subsidies, and imposed a co-ordinating role, and there was a bit more stability. However Local Authorites were often very critical of the opaqueness of the subsidy demands, and were very frustrated at their lack of influence over operating methods and costs. Hence some of the impetus towards deregulation.

Not every area had MAP - it all depended on the attitude of the Local Authority towards subsidies - areas that were generous and were happy to maintain the existing services (or only trimmings) were spared. Some companies had MAP in one LA area but not others.

As you point out, staff shortages, capital shortages for replacement vehicles, vehicle spare part shortages, industrial action by staff also played a significant part in reducing the size and scope of bus services.

I too remember 1971 as a big year for cuts, what was then Southdown and LCBS trimmed a lot of rural services.
As you say, the MAP exercises across the country - late 1970s/early 1980s saw many more rural services cut/scaled back.
Despite the current 'spike' - BSIP etc in subsidies, Public spending cuts are inevitable(however they are dressed up and whichever party is in Government) and with the ongoing financial pressures on county councils, we are definitely going to see more cuts/reductions, particularly to rural bus routes.
My biggest concern is around a future 'funding crisis' in Manchester & the other big conurbations that are going down the franchising route.

 

[edwin_m]

No I'm not holding contradictory views.
The buses running faster is not the same argument as saying people can only use a bus if they have a bank account and/or an Oyster card.
I can remember getting screwed by this no cash thing in Utrecht. I had to use my card for every journey but I got stung for a significant "foreign transaction fee" every time I did so. I was not happy at all. And not everyone has a bank account anyway.
Similarly in Skeggy where you can only use the public loo if you pay with a card, and, because we were on the beach we had not took our cards ! I was even less happy I can tell you ! ! ! Publicly funded services have no right to limit access in that way (and that's loos or buses ! ).

Taking cash is clearly one reason why buses run slower, so I assume that's a penalty you would accept. I don't know about Utrecht, but I imagine most places that don't take cash offer some kind of alternative like Oyster for those that can't or won't use bank cards.

 

[Non Multi]

Taking cash is clearly one reason why buses run slower, so I assume that's a penalty you would accept. I don't know about Utrecht, but I imagine most places that don't take cash offer some kind of alternative like Oyster for those that can't or won't use bank cards.

I've had plenty of experience of seeing boarding passengers get their bank card declined by the ticket machine, then they have more unsuccessful tap in attempts and then they try another card and it carries on and on for several minutes until someone else pays for their fare or they get off the bus. Does card payment look so speedy now?

 

[Teapot42]

I've had plenty of experience of seeing boarding passengers get their bank card declined by the ticket machine, then they have more unsuccessful tap in attempts and then they try another card and it carries on and on for several minutes until someone else pays for their fare or they get off the bus. Does card payment look so speedy now?

It isn't always the card being declined, I find ticket machines have a very poor NFC implementation and often struggle to work with a phone. Cards tend to be fine, but the machine can take a while to reset after a failed attempt.

Considering how long London has had Oyster, and how other countries have had similar systems (Easycard in Taiwan, Suica in Japan etc) it really is ludicrous that we don't have a country-wide payment system by now that automatically applies the cheapest fare.

I know this would raise cries of equality, but maybe one solution for cash would be that it can only buy a single at the cap (or a day ticket). That would give an incentive to move to a payment method that is quicker to process - but as above, we need that method in place anyway.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

As is often the case, I read the various posts and see that @RT4038 has hit the nail on the head.

There has been a steady decline in bus patronage since the high point of the 1950s. The reasons have largely been societal...

• Increased affluence in the 1950s and 1960s
• Sales of refrigerators meaning housewives no longer had to shop almost daily
• The introduction of TV meaning people were less likely to go for an evening trip to the cinema
• Increase in out of town shopping
• Decline in evening drinking

However, peppered in that period have been some watershed moments. As has been pointed out, 1971 was a key date as it coincided with the first full year of National Bus Co operation and changes in Exchequer Aid and local government support. Hence, the cutting of many services in particular parts of the country, such as the wholesale vacation of West Wales and North Cornwall (where some of the casualties were rail replacement bus services). However, some counties were remarkably unaffected as counties took different views on revenue support.

The Viable Network Project (later Market Analysis Project or ScotMAP north of the border) was prompted by the dire financial situation of many National Bus Co firms, starting with Midland Red. So the period 1978-1981 was particularly notable for cuts to services. However, even in some areas, there were brutal cuts without an MAP scheme being undertaken (e.g. United Auto in North Yorkshire). Typically, local fleets saw reductions of 20% overnight and the introduction of double deckers in areas that hadn't seen them in years.

Of course, people will point to 1986 as another key moment and it was. Deregulation saw the end of cross-subsidy within bus operations. It was then up to local authorities to support what wasn't deemed commercial and, to be honest, it highlighted quite a lot of services that simply weren't worth supporting. Also, you had the PTE operations in particular that had to be commercial, and that meant trying to align revenue with costs. Fares went up to "normal levels" and that had an impact on both patronage and the network.

Then things settled down and there were some encouraging signs as the industry settled down and consolidated, with funds provided for Rural Bus Challenge (a sop to the country driver) and then the ENCTS introduction. Then you got to 2010/11 and the coalition government where the central funding was brutally cut. Bewildered local authorities barely had enough for their statutory duties so many tendered services got cut and that impacted on the commercial network esp as ENCTS remuneration was similarly impacted (despite the assurances of the government).

Now we've had Covid in 2020 together with a fundamental shift in both the cost base (fewer drivers = higher wages) and the revenue base (more online shopping, fewer commuters, and a lot fewer ENCTS passengers). Not surprising that headways widened and what had been marginal services got culled.

So really a long decline over 70 years with the odd step change.

 

[Teapot42]

There has been a steady decline in bus patronage since the high point of the 1950s. The reasons have largely been societal...

• The introduction of TV meaning people were less likely to go for an evening trip to the cinema
• Increase in out of town shopping
• Decline in evening drinking

While I agree in the main with your very comprehensive post, one thing I would comment is that provision of evening buses actually seems to be better now than in the past. I recall someone once commenting for example that in their youth (this would likely be the 50s) if they went to a concert in Manchester they had to dash for the last bus back to Stockport, missing any encores etc. Now there are buses well in to the early hours. Similarly around here, looking at the old timetable archive on Transpire suggests evening provision (albeit mostly tendered) is better than in the past.

Whether there is any link or not but I remember growing up in the late 80s in to the 90s it was accepted to have 3 or 4 pints then drive home, but when I started to go out drinking myself that was changing to the point where these days drink driving is very much taboo.

 

[stevieinselby]

One of the big differences between the cuts to rail services that we saw during the 1960s and the cuts we saw to bus services at deregulation and through austerity is one of scale and finality.

When a railway was closed, for the most part it was closed. All services ceased.
When a bus service was cut, it was often cut back rather than completely axed. That might have been in terms of a reduced frequency, reduction in operating hours/days, shortened routes with fewer through/direct journeys ... but there was very often some level of service that was maintained.

 

[Lewisham2221]

While I agree in the main with your very comprehensive post, one thing I would comment is that provision of evening buses actually seems to be better now than in the past. I recall someone once commenting for example that in their youth (this would likely be the 50s) if they went to a concert in Manchester they had to dash for the last bus back to Stockport, missing any encores etc. Now there are buses well in to the early hours. Similarly around here, looking at the old timetable archive on Transpire suggests evening provision (albeit mostly tendered) is better than in the past.

Whether there is any link or not but I remember growing up in the late 80s in to the 90s it was accepted to have 3 or 4 pints then drive home, but when I started to go out drinking myself that was changing to the point where these days drink driving is very much taboo.

I think that very much depends on where you are. Evening bus services across my county are virtually non-existent compared to 20/30 years ago.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

While I agree in the main with your very comprehensive post, one thing I would comment is that provision of evening buses actually seems to be better now than in the past. I recall someone once commenting for example that in their youth (this would likely be the 50s) if they went to a concert in Manchester they had to dash for the last bus back to Stockport, missing any encores etc. Now there are buses well in to the early hours. Similarly around here, looking at the old timetable archive on Transpire suggests evening provision (albeit mostly tendered) is better than in the past.

Whether there is any link or not but I remember growing up in the late 80s in to the 90s it was accepted to have 3 or 4 pints then drive home, but when I started to go out drinking myself that was changing to the point where these days drink driving is very much taboo.

Evening services are a mixed bag. Up to the 1980s, there would be a clutch of last buses at 22:40 after the pubs had closed (but not changed to reflect the revised 23:00 hours). In some places, provision is better, aided by factors like university growth but overall, provision has declined.