Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[MotCO]

Are SWR uniquely incompetent, or are other operators just as bad? I don't remember a roll out ever being managed this badly, although admittedly I probably wouldn't pay such close attention if it didn't affect me.

Any update on training resuming yet?

Was the last big roll out the 800 programme? I know it was across multiple TOCs, but I don't recall it taking as long as the 701 roll-out.

 

[3973EXL]

47727
701033

Realtime Trains | 5Q87 0920 Eastleigh Trsmd to Long Marston | 22/01/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q87 0920 departure from Eastleigh Trsmd to Long Marston on 22/01/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

39 late start

701058

Realtime Trains | 5Q87 1234 Long Marston Gbrf to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs | 23/01/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q87 1234 departure from Long Marston Gbrf to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs on 23/01/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Bigfoot]

Was the last big roll out the 800 programme? I know it was across multiple TOCs, but I don't recall it taking as long as the 701 roll-out.

That's because Hitachi wasn't tasked with designing and delivering one variant that was completely different to all the other variants produced at the same time, plus Hitachi have to have so many units available every day for work, a very different case for Bombardier/Alstom 701s. Hitachi built a train to be reliable because it mattered to their future income. There are issues with every new stock but the 701s have been flawed on many aspects since their design.

 

[Snow1964]

Hitachi built a train to be reliable because it mattered to their future income. There are issues with every new stock but the 701s have been flawed on many aspects since their design.

Both the 701 and Hitachi 810s have run into problems because they tried to bodge too many changes into the standard design.

Not modular changes like fitting a different size fuel tank, or leaving out a row of seats. Completely different things that needed redesign to fit in because weren't expected to change. But of course if original design was optimised to fit everything in, then a redesign is going to be poorer, or a bodged compromise.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

completely different to all the other variants produced at the same time

Isn’t the only difference on the 701 the cab design? I’m under the impression that the electronics, structure, and software are all the same (apparently the 701 was first delivered with the system believing it had 3 doors on each carriage like a 345…)

 

[Bigfoot]

Isn’t the only difference on the 701 the cab design? I’m under the impression that the electronics, structure, and software are all the same (apparently the 701 was first delivered with the system believing it had 3 doors on each carriage like a 345…)

No middle cabs on a 10-car which is actually 2 5 cars semi-permanently coupled. That seemed to cause a lot of issues.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

No middle cabs on a 10-car which is actually 2 5 cars semi-permanently coupled. That seemed to cause a lot of issues.

Oh that’s interesting. I guess that’s to do with depot space.. possibly they would have had to order more 5 cars otherwise

 

[norbitonflyer]

Oh that’s interesting. I guess that’s to do with depot space.. possibly they would have had to order more 5 cars otherwise

No - the revised cab design was to make 2x5 car take up the same length as 1x10car, primarily so door positions were the same relative to platforms rather than because overall length would be an issue. Gtr Anglia resolved the isue more pragmatically by changing the order of class 720s to be all 5-car

 

[OneTrackMinded]

No - the revised cab design was to make 2x5 car take up the same length as 1x10car, primarily so door positions were the same relative to platforms rather than because overall length would be an issue. Gtr Anglia resolved the isue more pragmatically by changing the order of class 720s to be all 5-car

I think you misunderstood - the poster I was replying to is referring to the middle of a fixed 10 car rather than the cabs

 

[Goldfish62]

Oh that’s interesting. I guess that’s to do with depot space.. possibly they would have had to order more 5 cars otherwise

Not particularly unusual though. It's widespread on Underground stock and I think the Class 700s are the same.

 

[Bigfoot]

Oh that’s interesting. I guess that’s to do with depot space.. possibly they would have had to order more 5 cars otherwise

It was exactly for depot space. The wheel lathe at Wimbledon can't take anything longer than a 5-car.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Not particularly unusual though. It's widespread on Underground stock and I think the Class 700s are the same.

Though the point is that this was a new addition to the Aventra design, hence issues

 

[swtrains]

Today's testing (did not run again):

5T91 - Clapham Yard - Waterloo - normal.
5T92 - Waterloo - Waterloo - goes via Richmond, and Wimbledon.
5T93 - Waterloo - Chessington South - normal.
5T94 - Chessington South - Waterloo - normal.
5T95 - Waterloo - Clapham Yard - normal.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q26533/2025-01-22/detailed

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q26531/2025-01-22/detailed

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q26530/2025-01-22/detailed

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q26529/2025-01-22/detailed

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q26528/2025-01-22/detailed

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Jan 2025 ==

Tonight's Shepperton (2H77) is going to Surbiton again - this time as a 455, although yesterday it ran normally to Shepperton (as a 701).

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y19723/2025-01-22/detailed

 

[wickham]

Today, 23.01.25 5Q87 Long Marston to Wimbledon Park is running hauled by 47727, anyone know what is being conveyed please?

 

[ls2270]

Today, 23.01.25 5Q87 Long Marston to Wimbledon Park is running hauled by 47727, anyone know what is being conveyed please?

It’s 701058.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

From Facebook, bringing in 701058

 

[swtrains]

2H77 going to Surbiton as a 701

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y19723/2025-01-23/detailed#allox_id=0

 

[TRAX]

Today sees a fourth unit - 701036 - acheive 100 days in service.

Almost due for a midlife refurb !

 

[class701]

Steady. SWR might clean it and add some loo roll if you're lucky.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Any news about training resuming yet? Looks like they might have to push back on those February diagrams at this rate…

 

[Goldfish62]

Any news about training resuming yet? Looks like they might have to push back on those February diagrams at this rate…

A recent post here suggested that training never stopped apart from a few cancellations over Christmas.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

A recent post here suggested that training never stopped apart from a few cancellations over Christmas.

And another post very much insisted that the training had stopped after the union disagreement with the new course (#11,738)

 

[Snow1964]

And another post very much insisted that the training had stopped after the union disagreement with the new course (#11,738)

Although that post didn't really explain what was now disagreed, as the shortened course was described as a subset of the agreed course.

Unless I am mistaken it was described as same course format, but without the modules relating to driver door closing / departure checking (which is not happening imminently) as for now it will be guard close.

 

[TEW]

A recent post here suggested that training never stopped apart from a few cancellations over Christmas.

There hasn't been any training since before Christmas.

 

[DMckduck]

There has been a disagreement on wording, no specific information released.

So ASLEF and SWR are currently in the middle of a p**si*g contest basically...

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Surely if this goes on any longer there will have to be some sort of intervention because it'll look really bad for Labour if the first nationalised franchise under their plan can't introduce new trains after already 4/5 years of delays

 

[DelW]

Surely if this goes on any longer there will have to be some sort of intervention because it'll look really bad for Labour if the first nationalised franchise under their plan can't introduce new trains after already 4/5 years of delays

There was a fairly recent post from WarrenTManager on one of the SWR-related threads, basically saying (iirc) that the entire 455 fleet is going to run out of miles or hours or both before the end of next year, unless major overhauls are done (which is very unlikely).

So unless fingers are pulled out soon on the 701s, the SWR metro timetable will pretty much collapse, which wouldn't be a good look for the newly-nationalised operator ....

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Surely if this goes on any longer there will have to be some sort of intervention because it'll look really bad for Labour if the first nationalised franchise under their plan can't introduce new trains after already 4/5 years of delays

They will be happy for it to go bad as FSWR wont receive any bonus payments and they can then shout from the roof tops when they sort it of the benefits of nationalisation.

 

[Goldfish62]

There has been a disagreement on wording, no specific information released.

So ASLEF and SWR are currently in the middle of a p**si*g contest basically...

Utterly pathetic, basically. Bunch of "adults" who should hang their heads in shame.

 

[Bikeman78]

There was a fairly recent post from WarrenTManager on one of the SWR-related threads, basically saying (iirc) that the entire 455 fleet is going to run out of miles or hours or both before the end of next year, unless major overhauls are done (which is very unlikely).

So unless fingers are pulled out soon on the 701s, the SWR metro timetable will pretty much collapse, which wouldn't be a good look for the newly-nationalised operator ....

The overhauls will be spread over a few years. Even if they did two per month, that's only 24 per year. So the remaining fleet will be spread over at least three years.