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Why was the Class 45 kept in service over the Class 40?

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Pigeon

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I've heard the theory that BR forgot to allow for loss of power between the engine and the rail when drawing up the power classes, which is why all the early diesels wound up being underpowered for their intended uses.

I don't think so; I think nominal power at the drawbar tends to favour the diesels if anything. I think it was more complicated than that.

They thought too much in terms of a direct like-for-like replacement, and failed to anticipate the need for increased power in the general course of events, so the locos ended up being underpowered due to the change in requirements between setting the spec and bringing them into service. There was a desire to keep the weight down, too, particularly for the smaller types that would be expected to run on lesser lines.

They do seem to have failed to appreciate that a diesel has a hard limit on its power output, whereas a steam engine, with a large amount of energy stored in its boiler, can produce considerably more than its nominal maximum power for short periods; it can also be thrashed to produce excess power for longer periods, if the fireman can keep up, albeit with a rapid loss in efficiency.

They anticipated a lot more use of multiple working to compensate for lack of single large units, thinking this would be no real problem now that the additional loco didn't need an additional crew; but dis not 'appen (mostly).

Then overall there was the usual British paradigm of attempting simultaneous extravagance and parsimony, with the inevitable result that whether or not something was a good idea in the first place, the implementation is unsatisfactory due to important elements being underspecified, skimped or missing.
 
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70014IronDuke

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Lion was specifically specified as 2,750hp and not 2,300hp (as per the 44s, which were the mechanical basis for the design) to account for ETH load.
That's interesting. When was the spec issued? Indeed, do we know when exactly the BRB decision was made to move to ETH? Must have been around 1961-2, I assume.
 

hexagon789

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That's interesting. When was the spec issued? Indeed, do we know when exactly the BRB decision was made to move to ETH? Must have been around 1961-2, I assume.
I'd need to look that up, but bear with me and I'll see if I can find the specifics again
 

70014IronDuke

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I'd need to look that up, but bear with me and I'll see if I can find the specifics again
I've just realised that I've inadvertently dragged this thread into a general ETH them and off topic again. Let's switch to the thread


to continue this if you can find the info.
 

Strathclyder

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It was extremely shortlived either just as push-pull working was being implemented, or just after, that a couple of 81s made their way down from Scotland for ECS duties. (It also was three 83s)
The 81s that came down for this work lasted long enough to overlap with the DVTs, as this Soi Buakhao video taken at Euston dating from April 1991 illustrates.


Weren't one or two also used for ecs duties at Manchester Pic?
There was an 85 that was later used for Manchester Picc-Longsight stock moves - would have been about the same time as the 82s/83s were replaced at the London end by 81s and 85s.
85018 was the badger:


Seem to recall another 85 briefly employed on a similar duty in/out of Liverpool Lime St at this time, though the number escapes me.
 

86247

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The 81s that came down for this work lasted long enough to overlap with the DVTs, as this Soi Buakhao video taken at Euston dating from April 1991 illustrates.




85018 was the badger:


Seem to recall another 85 briefly employed on a similar duty in/out of Liverpool Lime St at this time, though the number escapes me.
The 85 at Lime Street for stock moves was 85110.
 
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