Thoughts on the Trump presidency

[najaB]

It was no salute. He was grabbing his heart and flinging it to everybody (not literally of course) as per what he said in the seconds beforehand.

Granting that for argument's sake, it just goes to show how odd he is then. Anyone else making that gesture would have used both arms.

And, again, where is his full-throated clarification that he wasn't making a fascist gesture and rejection of support from neo-Nazis?

 

[SuspectUsual]

It was no salute. He was grabbing his heart and flinging it to everybody (not literally of course) as per what he said in the seconds beforehand.

Really?!?

"Flinging" would be palm up, surely?

Look at his facial expression too - aggressive and hard - is that the expression of a man sharing the love?

 

[Speed Whiskers]

The jacket made him do it - a low armhole prevented full arm movement

x.com

twitter.com

(Sorry, I can't work out how to quote the tweet rather than post a link)

 

[ainsworth74]

And, again, where is his full-throated clarification that he wasn't making a fascist gesture and rejection of support from neo-Nazis?

That's the thing for me. I could just about accept it was a mistake in the heat of the moment, a gesture gone wrong, particularly in the context of what he was saying just before the gesture:

"I just want to say thank you for making it happen"

I can see how you'd want to do a gesture from your heart towards the crowd as a visual sign of that appreciation. But, that's not the gesture that he made. I cannot personally interpret that as anything other than a Nazi/fascistic salute. But perhaps it was just a mistake in the heat of the moment, his hands did the wrong thing (twice). However, if that was the case, where is the clarification/apology? Where is the renunciation of the the support shown by neo-Nazis as as result?

If it was me and I cocked up like this I would have been straight on Twitter and some sort of legacy media to say I ballsed up, it was a mistake, I was trying to convey my appreciation to the audience and any neo-Nazis that think I'm their friend are wrong.

 

[SuspectUsual]

If it was me and I cocked up like this I would have been straight on Twitter and some sort of legacy media to say I ballsed up, it was a mistake

Musk 101 - never apologise

 

[ainsworth74]

Of course the brilliance of this whole thing is that we, and much of the rest of the media and commentators, are focussing on this and ignoring all the Executive Orders that came out yesterday and will have a much bigger impact more immediately than whatever Elon was up to last night at this rally. Though I doubt Trump is pleased that Elon is again grabbing the limelight on his special day

 

[dcbwhaley]

Luckily we can still move to a forward liberal country on our doorstep - Ireland.

And a wealthier one

 

[bspahh]

Of course the brilliance of this whole thing is that we, and much of the rest of the media and commentators, are focussing on this and ignoring all the Executive Orders that came out yesterday and will have a much bigger impact more immediately than whatever Elon was up to last night at this rally. Though I doubt Trump is pleased that Elon is again grabbing the limelight on his special day

David Allen Green has written that "a flurry of Executive Orders may be little different from a flurry of Press Releases"

Like the Truss legal letter recently examined on this blog, what you have here are media-political devices disguised in the form of legal documents.

But it is a mask, and what we are seeing is essentially a masquerade.

*

This is not to say that some – maybe many – of these Executive Orders are not going to have adverse effects for somebody – especially in the short term.

Indeed, given the many partisan conservative judges now on the federal bench, there will be energetic judicial exertions to give effect to otherwise shoddy Executive Orders.

But what it does mean is that we should be careful not to accept everything at face value.

For a flurry of Executive Orders may be little different from a flurry of Press Releases.

And we should be mindful that we are dealing with con-artist conjurers.

 

[David M]

I was rather disturbed by Trump's declaration that there are only two genders. I fear for anyone who identifies as being trans or non-binary; this essentially gives carte-blanche to discriminate.

Is he not correct? If someone feels they are non-binary, they are allowed to keep it to themselves - who would know?

 

[dangie]

Granting that for argument's sake, it just goes to show how odd he is then. Anyone else making that gesture would have used both arms.

And, again, where is his full-throated clarification that he wasn't making a fascist gesture and rejection of support from neo-Nazis?

You see this is people making it to be what they want it to be. He goes through the motions of putting his right hand on his chest and flings his arm out with outstretched hand saying ‘My heart goes out to you. Then he does the same again. I personally think it was a gesture not a salute. But there again critics will believe what they want to believe.

 

[najaB]

Of course the brilliance of this whole thing is that we, and much of the rest of the media and commentators, are focussing on this and ignoring all the Executive Orders that came out yesterday and will have a much bigger impact more immediately than whatever Elon was up to last night at this rally.

Trust me, I've not ignored that in the slightest!

Is he not correct? If someone feels they are non-binary, they are allowed to keep it to themselves - who would know?

No, he isn't correct. Gender exists on a spectrum.

And why is someone's gender something that they should have to "keep to themselves"? Does that mean that they should dress and present themnselves in accordance with the sex they were assigned at birth? We're not talking about sexual orientation or activity which I could agree aren't something that anyone else needs to know about, but rather someone's gender - fundamenally who they are. Why should they have to pretend to be something that they're not.

Give what you wrote a moment's thought and I hope you'll realise how truly repugnant it was.

I personally think it was a gesture not a salute. But there again critics will believe what they want to believe.

Regardless of what the intention was, literal Nazis have said that it was a seig heil and he hasn't told them that they're wrong. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, the duck party says "Hello fellow duck" and it doesn't say that it's not a duck...

 

[westv]

Really?!?

"Flinging" would be palm up, surely?

Look at his facial expression too - aggressive and hard - is that the expression of a man sharing the love?

Yes, really.
Palm up or palm down makes no difference. And if you were trying to fling it as far as possible wouldn't you try to put s much energy in as possible.
I really don't like the guy but do we all really think he meant to do a Nazi salute? Let's have some common sense here.

 

[najaB]

I really don't like the guy but do we all really think he meant to do a Nazi salute? Let's have some common sense here.

Again, even taking that as fact, where is his denouncement of statements of support from literal Nazis?

 

[dangie]

….Regardless of what the intention was, literal Nazis have said that it was a seig heil and he hasn't told them that they're wrong...

Why should he need to defend his actions if he hasn’t done anything wrong. Surely it’s up to his accusers to prove he’s done something wrong.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Why should he need to defend his actions if he hasn’t done anything wrong. Surely it’s up to his accusers to prove he’s done something wrong.

When literal neo-Nazi groups start commending him for what he did, it's time to clarify. For a normal person at least

 

[dangie]

When literal neo-Nazi groups start commending him for what he did, it's time to clarify. For a normal person at least

Are you on the side of Neo Nazi’s? I think they are definitely adding 2 plus 2 to make 5. Anything to promote their beliefs.

 

[AlterEgo]

Is he not correct? If someone feels they are non-binary, they are allowed to keep it to themselves - who would know?

Certainly, non-binary people are allowed to keep it to themselves, but it doesn't mean they should legally have to.

Intersex people are caught in the crossfire here as always.

 

[najaB]

Why should he need to defend his actions if he hasn’t done anything wrong. Surely it’s up to his accusers to prove he’s done something wrong.

At this point it's not about the wave/saulute/whatever. There are literal neo-Nazis publicly saying that he's one of them and he has said nothing to counter that.

 

[jon0844]

That was a fairly obvious Nazi salute. I will refuse to believe any pathetic attempts to portray it as anything else.

Oh come on, how can you jump to such a conclusion?

He's autistic. Autistic people are giving Nazi salutes all the time.

And you'd have to believe that he'd be talking of white replacement theories, global cabals, restoring access to lots of pro-Nazi accounts on X when buying Twitter, and speaking to the leader of a far-right German political party with strong links to Nazi views - as well as telling the world that only a far-right German political party with strong links to Nazi views is the only way to save Germany.

If all of those things were true then, yes, anyone sane would accept it was a Nazi salute.

But otherwise it was just him stretching his arm because he'd probably had a long day and was a bit tired.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jan 2025 ==

PS surely Trump is more Mussolini than any other fascist leader

Those speaking of it being a Roman salute seem to forget that it was adopted by Mussolini and then Hitler, so it's not quite the defence people think it is. And in any case, why are 50% of Musk simps saying one thing, and 50% the other? I mean, even they can't seem to agree - so perhaps the answer is that it was a Nazi salute?

 

[studio_two]

Musk will definitely not like that...!!!

The 50% EV manufacturing rule won't be an issue for Tesla. His association with Trump might be more damaging.

 

[jon0844]

Granting that for argument's sake, it just goes to show how odd he is then. Anyone else making that gesture would have used both arms.

And, again, where is his full-throated clarification that he wasn't making a fascist gesture and rejection of support from neo-Nazis?

Elon only has time to send about 100 Tweets/Xcrements per day, so perhaps he's just been too busy to clarify.

 

[Harpo]

Elon only has time to send about 100 Tweets/Xcrements per day, so perhaps he's just been too busy to clarify.

The international froth about Manbaby Jnr’s antics show how much airtime he gets, even when saying nothing.

Manbaby Snr isn’t going to be happy about sharing that much of the limelight.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Are you on the side of Neo Nazi’s? I think they are definitely adding 2 plus 2 to make 5. Anything to promote their beliefs.

Of course I'm not, and I'm stunned you could think I am. The point, as others have made, is that any normal person in Musk's situation now would be doing all they can to disassociate themselves from these people. And he's not

He's autistic. Autistic people are giving Nazi salutes all the time

Not sure if that's a joke or not

 

[DarloRich]

He's autistic. Autistic people are giving Nazi salutes all the time.

or as I saw this morning: he is autistic and that gesture is how autistic people show thier love to a crowd!

 

[alex397]

Not sure if that's a joke or not

I’m not sure either. Would be good for some clarification on that (some clarification from Musk about his salute would also be welcomed)

 

[Giugiaro]

(...) Xcrements (...)

Holy moly, that's the best name I've found so far for a tweet post-X!!!

 

[najaB]

Not sure if that's a joke or not

Read along with the rest of the post it's quite clearly sarcasm.

 

[trainswitheddy]

Hopefully related but if not feel free to say. Anyone else extremely concerned with the idea that disaster aid should be withheld to California and that conditions should be met before it is sent ? Was this not the EXACT thing Trump was accusing Biden of doing during the Florida Hurricanes?

 

[alex397]

Read along with the rest of the post it's quite clearly sarcasm.

To be fair, sarcasm can sometimes be difficult to read online. Especially for the likes of me who tend to see things as ‘black and white’ a bit too much.

 

[ainsworth74]

Hopefully related but if not feel free to say. Anyone else extremely concerned with the idea that disaster aid should be withheld to California and that conditions should be met before it is sent ? Was this not the EXACT thing Trump was accusing Biden of doing during the Florida Hurricanes?

Oh yeah it's picking at the very fabric of the Union. Particularly as, as far as I'm aware, the Representatives from Democrat states didn't try to withhold or place conditions on Republican states getting Federal aid following things like hurricane Helene. So for those Republican Representatives to do that to California starts to undermine the Union itself.