Electrification of Fylde line

[Invincibles]

The Blackpool South line serves the pleasure beach and is one that has a lot of users in the summer.

For that reason I would consider summers only trains from Manchester to Blackpool South, which would continue to use diesel only routes and add capacity there as well.

This would then justify the creation of a loop I believe.

It would be brilliant to see the line electrified and used more extensively for services from Manchester/Liverpool. However, I think that is unlikely whilever the main service comes from Colne (That is something I would be inclined to do something about as well )

 

[Whistler40145]

Hi Invincibles, the South Fylde line should have a summer service to Manchester.

I have seen 142s & 150s @ Blackpool South. Are 156/158s passed for this line? Does Northern have a limit to one unit or could they send pairs of units down the branch?

At least one passing loop should be installed.

 

[driver9000]

The Blackpool South line is cleared for 156s and 158s but since the St Annes-Greenbank service ended there is no booked work for 156s on the line. 158s haven't worked on the line for several years now. All diagrams are booked to be covered by a 142, there is a Saturday diagram (the one that works the 06:42 ex-Blackpool South I think) that is strengthened with a 153 on football days but one of the problems with strengthening the trains (besides unit availability) is platform length at some stations particularly Moss Side and some stations on the East Lancs line which can't take a 4 car train, a 142+153 is a tight fit on some platforms, it has been raised in the past along with the overcrowding created by passengers heading to and from Pleasure Beach and a couple of summers ago the Saturday service was worked by 150s instead of 142s but this has since reverted to 142 operation.

Bring on a loop!

 

[umontu]

Moss side seems to have similar numbers of passengers to Salwick, yet gets more trains, just thought I'd point that out.

Driver9000 you're a Northern driver aren't you? Is there any talk of a loop in official circles?

 

[driver9000]

Moss Side's main reason for existence these days seems to be for the Guard to press the plunger for the crossing.

I'm unaware of any plans for a loop on the Blackpool South line. Without one there can't be any increase in service frequency as Kirkham-Kirkham takes around an hour.

 

[umontu]

Hmm thought so, cheers for the reply.

As has been mentioned on the Preston tram thread the Fylde needs a transport rethink.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As has been mentioned on the Preston tram thread, the Fylde area needs a transport rethink.

Who do you think should be involved in this. More importantly, where would any new finance come from. Do you envisage any European Union input to be an aid to such matters, noting that Blackpool will be part of a EU five-year study of transport that covers five peripheral areas of Western Europe, as referred to in a recent issue of Modern Railways.

 

[Buttsy]

What is really needed on this line is for it to be redoubled from Kirkham through to Lytham. It cannot go much further due to the way they have blocked the line at Ansdel. Then a loop needs to be put in at St Annes, unless when they sold of the land for the supermarket has made this impracticable.

If you look at old pictures of Ansdell station, you will see that it was once an island platform with 2 avoiding lines. With the change to the current Ansdell station, a second line could be added on the coastal side of the station and a platform built alongside the road opposite the golf course. This then allows for a Lytham-St. Annes dynamic loop which could be extended in either direction should traffic allow.

Certainly the areas the south Fylde line runs though could produce the additional traffic required for a 30 min service, particularly with better stock and destinations (156/158 Manchester/Liverpool). What I could see is that the stock would be freed up with electrification and the current Blackpool North - Liverpool services could run to South instead and not stop at all stations on the south Fylde, particularly as Wigan-Huyton electrification doesn't appear (to me) to be in the electrification plans.

 

[driver9000]

Wigan Springs Branch junction to Huyton is to be electrified.

 

[Buttsy]

Wigan Springs Branch junction to Huyton is to be electrified.

Fair enough. In that case, south Fylde should be as well and Colne trains diverted to Ormskirk...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Fair enough. In that case, south Fylde should be as well and Colne trains diverted to Ormskirk...

You ean half of them Colne-Preton is hourly, Ormskirk-Preston is every 90 mins

 

[Buttsy]

The Ormskirk one way trip time is 32-33 mins. Reason for the 90 mins frequency appears to be so it can run with one unit only. Ormskirk can be improved to hourly as units on Colne line would allow for a more intensive service, with passing taking place between Preston & Faringdon Junc.

 

[lancastrian]

If you look at old pictures of Ansdell station, you will see that it was once an island platform with 2 avoiding lines. With the change to the current Ansdell station, a second line could be added on the coastal side of the station and a platform built alongside the road opposite the golf course. This then allows for a Lytham-St. Annes dynamic loop which could be extended in either direction should traffic allow.

Certainly the areas the south Fylde line runs though could produce the additional traffic required for a 30 min service, particularly with better stock and destinations (156/158 Manchester/Liverpool). What I could see is that the stock would be freed up with electrification and the current Blackpool North - Liverpool services could run to South instead and not stop at all stations on the south Fylde, particularly as Wigan-Huyton electrification doesn't appear (to me) to be in the electrification plans.

Well that seems reasonable to me, as long as both Lytham and St. Annes, have both platforms in use. I also agree that if that is done, it would be helpful to electrify the South Fylde line, so that would give oppotunity to receive summer services from Manchester and Liverpool. By the way Huyton to Wigan is in the plans.

 

[umontu]

Who do you think should be involved in this. More importantly, where would any new finance come from. Do you envisage any European Union input to be an aid to such matters, noting that Blackpool will be part of a EU five-year study of transport that covers five peripheral areas of Western Europe, as referred to in a recent issue of Modern Railways.

I have no easy way to answer that I'm afraid. You've quite rightly stated "where would any new finance come from." and this would be a problem at the moment as no one has money. I just think that any transport plans for the Fylde area, as I live in it, should be thought of in an integrated manner rather than adding to what is already there; though I except this is impractical and costly for both time and money.

And in reference to other posters talking about Ansdell remember the former trackbed on the up line is now part of the disabled access to the station it might be more difficult to reopen this. And to lancastrian, there is talk of the disused platform at St Annes being built on so that might set back that idea.

 

[lancastrian]

And in reference to other posters talking about Ansdell remember the former trackbed on the up line is now part of the disabled access to the station it might be more difficult to reopen this. And to lancastrian, there is talk of the disused platform at St Annes being built on so that might set back that idea.

Typical that they are planning to build in the disussed platform at St. Annes. When will local councils wake up and realise once they destroy these transport assetts, the cost of replacing them will be astronomical. :roll:

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Typical that they are planning to build in the disussed platform at St. Annes. When will local councils wake up and realise once they destroy these transport assetts, the cost of replacing them will be astronomical. :roll:

Not to put too fine a point on it, if St. Annes was on the Brighton to Portsmouth coastal line, would it have been allowed to find itself in the condition it is now? I very much doubt it.

 

[umontu]

Typical that they are planning to build in the disussed platform at St. Annes. When will local councils wake up and realise once they destroy these transport assetts, the cost of replacing them will be astronomical. :roll:

Quite frankly, never. <Sarcasm> Of course it's not their fault that they made a decision affecting the railways when they had no understanding of how it works.
</Sarcasm>

However as a result of the potential work at St Annes there is talk of the PWRS getting some of the masonry, from the disused platform, to use at Thornton.

 

[boing_uk]

Of course, it is only one businessmans idea. No planning submission has yet been made and I should imagine that the land is owned by NR or BRBR and not in private ownership?

Of course, I should expect that the local/structure plan would preclude further encroachment on the railway given the very real aspirations of both the local authorities and NR to provide some sort of loop on the line, even if no funding streams have been identified.

 

[Buttsy]

And in reference to other posters talking about Ansdell remember the former trackbed on the up line is now part of the disabled access to the station it might be more difficult to reopen this. And to lancastrian, there is talk of the disused platform at St Annes being built on so that might set back that idea.

Having used the station recently, I do know that the disabled access is over the old up platform, however, there is sufficient room opposite the current platform for a line over the route of a former avoiding line, and sufficient space to have a staggered platform layout if the platform is added closer to Blackpool by Arundel Road. The only problem with this being that the entrance to this platform would not necessarily be near the current entrance (certainly not for disabled access). This should link to a aerial view of the station - http://www.bing.com/maps/?FORM=MMRE...3NDA2Nzg2ODU2NzI5JTdlLTIuOTk3MTU5MzI4MzAyODg=

 

[bluenoxid]

Would the line be better as a tram train operation. Dual voltage tram trains can operate to Preston with a 25kV/750DC changeover happening near Kirkham. It allows for Blackpool trams to serve further south than they do now and the route to be cheaper to improve. Would the Colne service be better sent to Blackpool North then as they stay out of the way of Preston's platforms.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Would the line be better as a tram train operation. Dual voltage tram trains can operate to Preston with a 25kV/750DC changeover happening near Kirkham. It allows for Blackpool trams to serve further south than they do now and the route to be cheaper to improve. Would the Colne service be better sent to Blackpool North then as they stay out of the way of Preston's platforms.

Have a look at the posting on #44 and its answer, that if successful, may cover part of your query.

 

[Bald Rick]

Not to put too fine a point on it, if St. Annes was on the Brighton to Portsmouth coastal line, would it have been allowed to find itself in the condition it is now? I very much doubt it.

As a regular up there, if St Annes was on the Brighton to Portsmouth coastal line it would of course be in much better nick. Entirely because Blackpool wouldn't be just down the road.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As a regular up there, if St Annes was on the Brighton to Portsmouth coastal line it would of course be in much better nick. Entirely because Blackpool wouldn't be just down the road.

What if the famous J R Taylor store got their hands on the station. You would soon see an upgrade to keep the station up to the image that they always seem to aspire to.

St Annes has always wished that it could have been situated somewhere rather nicer, like the next stop along the line from Prestbury (or Alderley Edge).

 

[boing_uk]

And in reference to other posters talking about Ansdell remember the former trackbed on the up line is now part of the disabled access to the station it might be more difficult to reopen this.

I would think the dwellings on the other side of the bridge might be more of an obstacle

 

[PR1Berske]

The Ormskirk one way trip time is 32-33 mins. Reason for the 90 mins frequency appears to be so it can run with one unit only. Ormskirk can be improved to hourly as units on Colne line would allow for a more intensive service, with passing taking place between Preston & Faringdon Junc.

There should be a station/halt at the point where the Colne line and the Ormskirk line "meet" (that is, where the former starts to go "higher" than the latter, you can tell I'm not in the industry).

I've always considered that this "Farington Halt" would be on benefit to the population near-by. Get on in Ormskirk, change for Blackburn, or get on at Lostock Hall, change for Rufford, and all without the need to travel all the way to Preston.

Will never happen, obvz. :cry:

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I've always considered that this "Farington Halt" would be on benefit to the population near-by. Get on in Ormskirk, change for Blackburn, or get on at Lostock Hall, change for Rufford, and all without the need to travel all the way to Preston.

Was there once a DIRECT Liverpool to Blackburn service that did not call at Preston run by the L.M.S. ?

 

[PR1Berske]

Was there once a DIRECT Liverpool to Blackburn service that did not call at Preston run by the L.M.S. ?

If there was (I don't know...), would that have used the spur off what is now the WCML which runs adjacent to Lostock Hall?

Would be popular I suspect. Liverpool --> St Helens --> Wigan --> Leyland --> Bamber Bridge --> Blackburn.

 

[WestCoast]

As a regular up there, if St Annes was on the Brighton to Portsmouth coastal line it would of course be in much better nick. Entirely because Blackpool wouldn't be just down the road.

As a local, and a regular on this line, I have to disagree about the Blackpool bit. The pretensions about the place are irrelevant here. St. Annes has the best station on the whole of the South Fylde Line, it has a part-time ticket office, a small waiting room with vending machines and a car park. All the other stations have little more than a shelter with a bench!

In my opinion, St Annes isn't all that premier as some would have you believe, the pier and promenade facilities are rather neglected. Most of St Annes isn't all that affluent either, only the parts towards Lytham and Ansdell are.

In general, stations in the North of England have received less investment overall. From what I have observed, stations in SE England have, on average, been maintained to a higher standard. That arguably reflects their higher usage.

The exception to this seems to be PTE areas, which have had money spent on their stations, with notable exceptions.

Its very common to not see PIDs and ticket offices/machines at smaller stations in the North of England. Neglected bus stop style old shelters pass for facilities. Look at the condition of some of the stations on the Mid-Cheshire line and that area is generally considered as being “posh”. Fylde Council is distinctly separate from Blackpool, which is a unitary authority. The owners of the station aren't prepared to do much, so that leaves the councils. Fylde (or Lancs CC) can't spend the money on making vast improvements and that is it.

 

[yorksrob]

As a regular up there, if St Annes was on the Brighton to Portsmouth coastal line it would of course be in much better nick. Entirely because Blackpool wouldn't be just down the road.

Although it has to be said, many of the stations on the East Coastway line did fall into a state of disrepair (culminating in the inexcusable demolition of the old Southern Railway's booking hall at Hastings a few years ago). Southern has done a rather good job of restoring the rest of these though, a good example being Bexhill Central.

 

[umontu]

http://www.lythamstannesexpress.co....-and-rural/platform_for_homes_plans_1_3481687

Looks like the plans are out there.

Would anyone like to see squires gate better connected to the airport? There was talk of runway 28 being extended over the line. This was a while back when they had money. considering their recent closure of 25 this may not happen.

Also Blackpool airport being on the border with fylde and blackpool there could be some issues.