Thoughts on the Trump presidency

[Gloster]

As I write this we are in the last hour before insanity starts to rule: I thought that we ought to have a new thread to comment on what happens during the Trump, or Trump/Vance, presidency.

Personally, my feeling is that there will be all sorts of chaos at first with Trump trying to carry out many questionable acts and going bigly bananas when some of them are stopped. Then there will be a period of apparent calm, but all sorts of major changes will be going on behind the scenes. Eventually America and the World will be very different, to the disadvantage of us all.

As far as the UK is concerned, I think we will eventually come to a point where we can’t keep on backing down and will have to make a stand, despite the unpleasant consequences. The important point might be whether we are ahead of, behind or alongside other countries.

 

[Buzby]

My interest is in whether Trump is given Cart Blanche to visit the UK - conveniently forgetting the fact that ‘convicted felons’ on either side of the Atlantic are automatically barred from entry into either country. Will this be conveniently forgotten and result in it being swept under the carpet? If so, you can bet representations will be made to waive it for everyone.

 

[dosxuk]

conveniently forgetting the fact that ‘convicted felons’ on either side of the Atlantic are automatically barred from entry into either country.

In the words of Wikipedia - citation needed.

Convictions generally bar people from using the visa waiver schemes, but that's a different thing entirely from being barred from entry completely. Thousands, if not millions, of convicted felons travel between the US & UK each year.

 

[Buzby]

Convictions generally bar people from using the visa waiver schemes, but that's a different thing entirely from being barred from entry completely.

Visa Waiver is a side show - I have a distant relative who was convicted in 1982 and has to apply at the US Embassy as he cannot use the Visa scheme. Some 40 years on he has given up trying as the Visa scheme do not refund fees on refusal as he tried to go to Florida for a holiday. His crime was classed as ‘moral turpitude’ - unlike Trump’s rap sheet of 38 counts as well as being handed down this year.

 

[signed]

In the words of Wikipedia - citation needed.

Convictions generally bar people from using the visa waiver schemes, but that's a different thing entirely from being barred from entry completely. Thousands, if not millions, of convicted felons travel between the US & UK each year.

There is an automatic ban for anyone that have been sentence to 4 years+ imprisonment. There is also a 10 year ban (starting from end of sentence) for between 12 months and 4 years, 5 years for any other prison term and 12 months for any non-custodial sentence.

Can a US citizen with a criminal record travel to the UK?

I have a friend with a criminal record who wants to go to London with me and I'm trying to determine if that is actually a possibility. This friend was convicted of a class A misdemeanor on Dec 14...

travel.stackexchange.com

And there is also a provision to make the ban permanent if the Home Office decides the offense is serious.

However, there is absolutely no way that would apply to a diplomat as those rules are very different than for a visitor.

---

Over on the US, you can be banned for life if you commit a drug offense, a crime involving moral turpitude, or 2 (or more) crimes with a combined sentence over 5 years

INA 212

(2) Criminal and related grounds​

(A) Conviction of certain crimes​

(i) In general​

Except as provided in clause (ii), any alien convicted of, or who admits having committed, or who admits committing acts which constitute the essential elements of-

(I) a crime involving moral turpitude (other than a purely political offense) or an attempt or conspiracy to commit such a crime, or

(II) a violation of (or a conspiracy or attempt to violate) any law or regulation of a State, the United States, or a foreign country relating to a controlled substance (as defined in section 802 of title 21),



is inadmissible.

(ii) Exception​

Clause (i)(I) shall not apply to an alien who committed only one crime if-

(I) the crime was committed when the alien was under 18 years of age, and the crime was committed (and the alien released from any confinement to a prison or correctional institution imposed for the crime) more than 5 years before the date of application for a visa or other documentation and the date of application for admission to the United States, or

(II) the maximum penalty possible for the crime of which the alien was convicted (or which the alien admits having committed or of which the acts that the alien admits having committed constituted the essential elements) did not exceed imprisonment for one year and, if the alien was convicted of such crime, the alien was not sentenced to a term of imprisonment in excess of 6 months (regardless of the extent to which the sentence was ultimately executed).

(B) Multiple criminal convictions​

Any alien convicted of 2 or more offenses (other than purely political offenses), regardless of whether the conviction was in a single trial or whether the offenses arose from a single scheme of misconduct and regardless of whether the offenses involved moral turpitude, for which the aggregate sentences to confinement were 5 years or more is inadmissible.

(C) Controlled substance traffickers​

Any alien who the consular officer or the Attorney General knows or has reason to believe-

(i) is or has been an illicit trafficker in any controlled substance or in any listed chemical (as defined in section 802 of title 21), or is or has been a knowing aider, abettor, assister, conspirator, or colluder with others in the illicit trafficking in any such controlled or listed substance or chemical, or endeavored to do so; or

(ii) is the spouse, son, or daughter of an alien inadmissible under clause (i), has, within the previous 5 years, obtained any financial or other benefit from the illicit activity of that alien, and knew or reasonably should have known that the financial or other benefit was the product of such illicit activity,

 

[oldman]

Heads of state and government are protected by a form of diplomatic privilege.

 

[Buzby]

However, there is absolutely no way that would apply to a diplomat as those rules are very different than for a visitor.

True - we normally expel them and put them on a plane. The issue here appears the conviction will be forgotten about because his sentence has been put in abeyance for 4 years.

 

[najaB]

Personally, my feeling is that there will be all sorts of chaos at first with Trump trying to carry out many questionable acts and going bigly bananas when some of them are stopped. Then there will be a period of apparent calm, but all sorts of major changes will be going on behind the scenes. Eventually America and the World will be very different, to the disadvantage of us all.

This outlines their plans: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_47

It's enough to say that if they even manage 20% of it, the world is in for a wild ride.

 

[brad465]

Will be interesting to see his health decline on full show. He got away with it in the campaign because Biden's took centre stage and Trump could cover up some of his own gaffes. However now all the cameras will be on him, which combined with the demands and stress of the job, can't be a good recipe for being physically sound at his age. I wouldn't be surprised also if for this reason he tries to duck out of as many commitments as possible, focusing only on the can't afford to miss ones (like major world summits).

 

[Jon_jpwh]

Will be interesting to see his health decline on full show. He got away with it in the campaign because Biden's took centre stage and Trump could cover up some of his own gaffes. However now all the cameras will be on him, which combined with the demands and stress of the job, can't be a good recipe for being physically sound at his age. I wouldn't be surprised also if for this reason he tries to duck out of as many commitments as possible, focusing only on the can't afford to miss ones (like major world summits).

He's got to allow for the time he needs to spend on the golf course.

 

[dangie]

Well that was a good start. The audio failed.
Interesting to see Clinton laughing

 

[1D54]

I listened to that speech and was totally and utterly blown away. What the hell have we done to deserve the spineless inept lunatics that lead us from one disaster to the next. I'd take 4 years of being the 51st state right now if it was possible. I'm jealous as hell.

 

[Pete_uk]

Musk looked high

 

[ScotsRail]

Just waiting on my call up papers for the invasion of Panama.

 

[dangie]

It's enough to say that if they even manage 20% of it, the world is in for a wild ride.

I remember some years ago when ex-president Barack Obama joined Bear Grylls on one of his walks, he said that when he became president he had a list of things he wanted to accomplish. When he left office eight years later he said he hadn’t managed to succeed in any of them. Fingers crossed history repeats itself.

 

[najaB]

I remember some years ago when ex-president Barack Obama joined Bear Grylls on one of his walks, he said that when he became president he had a list of things he wanted to accomplish. When he left office eight years later he said he hadn’t managed to succeed in any of them. Fingers crossed history repeats itself.

For much of Obama's presidency the GOP had control of the house and/or senate and so blocked most that he tried to do. The GOP currently has control of both houses, the presidency and a conservative majority on the Supreme Court. There is literally nobody who can stop them doing what they want to do, other than themselves.

 

[adc82140]

His crime was classed as ‘moral turpitude’

Isn't that something you use to wash out paint brushes?

 

[Buzby]

Isn't that something you use to wash out paint brushes?

I find adding ice cubes to it makes a smashing aperitif…..

 

[MotCO]

I think I can safely say that the next four years will not be as boring as the last four

 

[najaB]

I think I can safely say that the next four years will not be as boring as the last four

Unfortunately, that's not a good thing. When it comes to international relations I'm all for boring!

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Yes, those who look to world politics primarily for ‘entertainment’ quite frankly need their heads examining.

 

[dangie]

‘Drill….baby……drill….’

 

[Trackman]

Just waiting on my call up papers for the invasion of Panama.

I'm waiting for the invasion of Greenland.
A NATO member invading a NATO country.
That would be interesting with Article 5.

 

[brad465]

If you're not in a good mood about today, I recommend this video, which not only has a top at Trump (and also Biden's age), but really takes the mick out of the USA from a UK perspective:

 

[najaB]

‘Drill….baby……drill….’

Which, as a mantra, ignores that US oil production is at an all-time high. (As are global ocean temperatures).

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Which, as a mantra, ignores that US oil production is at an all-time high. (As are global ocean temperatures).

...and it also provides the immediate potential clash in that at the same time has having the electric car promoter in chief in his government, he is proposing to boost the oil industry and presumably also internal combustion engine cars and other vehicles.

That might not take long to boil over?

 

[najaB]

he is proposing to boost the oil industry and presumably also internal combustion engine cars and other vehicles.

Not presumably. To quote from the Wiki link provided earlier in the thread, they propose to:

"save America's auto industry from Joe Biden's radical Green New Deal policies", by terminating all of Biden's policies regarding emission regulations, fossil fuels, and electric vehicles, specifically the "mandates designed to force Americans into expensive electric cars", subsidies for "electric cars for rich people", and "DOUBLED CAFÉ standards".

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Not presumably. To quote from the Wiki link provided earlier in the thread, they propose to:

Musk will definitely not like that...!!!

 

[najaB]

Musk will definitely not like that...!!!

No, Herr Musk is not going to be amused.

 

[Springs Branch]

I think I can safely say that the next four years will not be as boring as the last four

Isn't there a famous Chinese curse along the lines of "May you live in interesting times"?


[EDIT] According to Wikipedia, the Chinese provenance of the phrase is a myth (Fake News??) - but the gist is unchanged.