Suggestions for new short-ish lines

[Bald Rick]

Absolutely no prospect of building a viaduct in the Fens. There is no solid ground to support the structure.

To be fsir there are some big viaducts in the fens, not least the new A14 near Offord.

 

[Cambus731]

A curve just east of Shenfield station. That would enable direct trains to run without reversing, from Southend on Sea to places such as Colchester, Clacton, Ipswich, Norwich, or even Cambridge or Peterborough.

 

[devon_belle]

Clifton Maybank was only for freight, so doesn't really count as a reopening.

You're good, because Clifton Maybank was North to West, predating the wartime connection between the Yeovil Town line and the Heart of Wessex. South to West had earthworks but track was never laid. I agree a valuable suggestion (as does Dorset Council, I believe).

My own, probably fanciful, chord ideas would be at Romsey and Eastleigh to send some freight (and passenger, in case of an incident/engineering) avoiding Southampton Central-St Denys. Would also need some doubling.

 

[yorksrob]

You're good, because Clifton Maybank was North to West, predating the wartime connection between the Yeovil Town line and the Heart of Wessex. South to West had earthworks but track was never laid. I agree a valuable suggestion (as does Dorset Council, I believe).

Ah thanks. I know there was a freight spur from South to West, however I might have got the name wrong !

 

[The Ham]

Ascot - Frimley line connecting to North Downs line, across the Blackwater river (and relief road!) and also North Downs Line to Aldershot North Jn.

WAO

You could probably deliver most of the benefits with a new station on the North Downs line near to Frimley station (would also be useful for the "Frimley4 Business Park" and the retail park there. It would also be slightly closer to Farnborough Sixth Form College than Farnborough North.

You could build it so the access was from ramps down from the A325 bridge over the A331/railway and you'd only need to cross one road to get between the two.

Such a short walk interchange would be useful in its own right, but could be even more useful with a new short line.

If you build a grade separated junction to allow trains to run between Ascot and Basingstoke via Farnborough Main that would make it very easy to interchange between all three lines which ruin in that area.

It would also allow some new stations to be built to create a metro service for the Aldershot Urban area (population of circa 266,000) and some of the places within its orbit.

For example, there could be stations at:
- Old Basing
- Fleet West
- Southwood
- Frimley Junction
- Watchmore Park
- Old Dean

They would likely only be served by the new trains, although you could have the Waterloo services mix and match which of the stations they call at. For example Hook to Winchfield would be served by the new trains, so them dropping to 1tph direct to Waterloo (especially if the metro services arrived at Farnborough Main 5 minutes before the fast London services so changing trains would be faster than the current direct service) wouldn't be an issue.

Whilst it wouldn't give Camberley a direct train to London, it would give an option to go via Farnborough Main rather than Ascot which could be slightly faster.

There would be a need for limited other works as the slow lines west of Brookwood can cope with 2tph without too much issue, and both lines are electrified, so these would be run by electric trains.

Even in a post Crossrail 2 situation the 2 fast and 2 slow lines aren't really all that busy so could easily absorb an extra 8tph (2tph for the metro and up to 6tph from the extra services from Waterloo). East of Woking there's an extra 8tph compared to West of Brookwood. Also, with the potential for an extra train per hour for the Basingstoke Stoppers Hook and other stations could retain 2tph direct to Waterloo.

Adding the Southern Approach to Heathrow may be a bit more of an issue, but you'd still be running fewer services than East of Woking.

You would probably need to do something at Basingstoke, however that could be reopening (on the WofE line) Oakley station (or a siding station for the leisure park) so no trains terminate at Basingstoke and fewer need to cross the lines east of the station (should be XC services and freight), which would gain some capacity before needing to make larger changes at Basingstoke.

Whilst there's no value in diversion routes, it would mean that far fewer rail replacement bus services would be needed, as any engineering works between the new junction and Clapham Junction could divert around (although probably only 1tph).

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Skelmersdale?

 

[Falcon1200]

Complete the Renfrewshire & Ayrshire Circle by linking Wemyss Bay and Largs.

 

[xotGD]

Skipton to Colne, and a cross-Bradford link, of course!

 

[A S Leib]

Neilston – Paisley – Glasgow Airport – Dalmuir.

 

[Magdalia]

Cambridge isn't the only destination in the East of England

Cambridge is the only place in the East of England that is home to one of the top ten Universities in the world, with high economic growth very specific to its location.

How do you think they support the bridges over the river?

Bridges are short, viaducts are long. Variations in ground movement can be managed on a short bridge much more easily than on a long viaduct. Even then many Fenland railways have significant issues, necessitating temporary or permanent speed restrictions. This recent discussion about electrification in the Fens covers some of the issues:

Cambridge to King's Lynn Electrification - Gathering Resources

Hello, I am interested in gathering some resources on the existing Electrified Cambridge to King's Lynn route: I have noticed that there are significant sections of the route where two-track portals have been used, such as between Newmarket Road / Dimmocks Cote and Holt Fen Level Crossings...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[PedroHav]

Eastleigh curve so that trains from Fareham can turn directly to Southampton Parkway without reversing at Eastleigh.

 

[Magdalia]

To be fsir there are some big viaducts in the fens, not least the new A14 near Offord.

Offord isn't in the Fens, it is a river flood plain.

 

[stuu]

Bridges are short, viaducts are long. Variations in ground movement can be managed on a short bridge much more easily than on a long viaduct. Even then many Fenland railways have significant issues, necessitating temporary or permanent speed restrictions. This recent discussion about electrification in the Fens covers some of the issues:

The A142 viaduct south of Chatteris is still there, and that's very much in the fens. You need very long piles, it's an engineering and especially a financial problem but it is soluble

 

[Magdalia]

The A142 viaduct south of Chatteris is still there, and that's very much in the fens. You need very long piles, it's an engineering and especially a financial problem but it is soluble

At Ely very very long piles. See this report about the Ely Southern bypass:

Delayed Ely Southern Bypass in £13m overspend

Costs have spiralled due to "tricky conditions", including building on a floodplain, the county council says.

www.bbc.co.uk

The cost of a bypass for the Fenland city of Ely has spiralled to £13m over its initial budget and completion will be delayed by several months.

Work began on the £36m Ely Southern Bypass in January 2017 and the road was expected to open by late summer 2018.

However, the county council said "tricky conditions" including a floodplain and working near a "national heritage site" meant costs spiralled.

A spokesman added: "The depth of the foundations for the river viaduct is two thirds the height of the cathedral - much more than expected.

"Also, as Ely Cathedral is a national heritage site, a unique, specially-designed viaduct needed to be created which has given the team significant challenges."

A short viaduct built 7 years ago ended up costing almost £50m.

Then there is the ongoing saga of the Ralph Butcher bridge at Kings Dyke:

Bridge lane closure in Peterborough a nightmare, says residents

The King's Dyke Bridge connects the Fenland town of Whittlesey to Peterborough.

www.bbc.co.uk

Traffic around a town has been described as a "nightmare" by residents who "fear the worst" if the partial closure of a £32m bridge was not restored.

The King's Dyke bridge, which connects Peterborough and Whittlesey over the Peterborough-Ely railway line, was opened in 2022 to ease traffic caused by a level crossing.

Yet two years after it opened, it was partially closed in June after cracks were spotted in the westbound carriageway.

 

[yorksrob]

At Ely very very long piles. See this report about the Ely Southern bypass:

Hopefully there's a cream for that !

 

[zwk500]

No reopenings. They've been done to death. Especially that one!

Uckfield to Glynde (and onto Lewes) via Ringmer - would be 95%+ a new alignment, serving a village rapidly becoming a town as well as connecting the weald to Brighton without reversal and avoiding a National Park to boot.

 

[The Planner]

Whitacre curve. 300m of track. Would allow Birch Coppice freight access to the WCML without the magical mystery tour of the West Mids. Could also send the empty Kingsbury tanks back via Leicester.

 

[Nottingham59]

Bridges are short, viaducts are long. Variations in ground movement can be managed on a short bridge much more easily than on a long viaduct.

Do the Ely Capacity Enhancement project team know about this?

Round 2 (part 2) – Queen Adelaide level crossings:

• Option 2 Northern bypass. A new road (2188m long) with a 1215m long viaduc
• Option 3 Long Southern Bypass. A new 2040m long road with a 1000m long viaduct

https://democracy.cambridge.gov.uk/documents/s57504/Network%20Rail%20EACE%20North%20Area%20Committee%20presentation.pdf

 

[zwk500]

Do the Ely Capacity Enhancement project team know about this?

https://democracy.cambridge.gov.uk/documents/s57504/Network%20Rail%20EACE%20North%20Area%20Committee%20presentation.pdf

Given Option 1 has no bridge at all and Option 4 has a 360m long viaduct, it's fair to say they do. However the project will be required to present a range of options to be evaluated, which includes things that are not as easy but provide a greater overall benefit.

 

[Magdalia]

Do the Ely Capacity Enhancement project team know about this?

I am very sceptical about the prospects for the Ely Capacity enhancement because I can't see any of the long viaduct options ever happening.

However, terra firma on the Isle of Ely itself is not far away to the west, and one of the few bits of the Isle that hasn't been covered in houses yet. The B1382 road through Queen Adelaide crosses 4 railways, and the only bridge is the most westerly, over the avoiding line. Chettisham is firmly on the Isle and the A10 has a bridge over the March line there.

I think there is a solution, but it isn't in the current options, and is off topic here!

 

[Doctor Fegg]

• 1km South-East chord at Manton Junction to allow services between Oxford and Peterborough without reversing, connecting the South Midlands and the Eastern side of the country. It would support maybe one tenth of the benefit of East-West Rail from Bedford to Cambridge, at around one fiftieth of the cost. So better value for money.

A south<–>east chord at Manton would also free up paths through Leicester by enabling the cement trains between St Pancras (Churchyard) and Ketton to go via Corby.

I like the idea of a passenger service, but I suspect the only way it could wash its face is if you could magic up a bunch of local passengers for Corby/Kettering–Peterborough journeys.

 

[Nottingham59]

I like the idea of a passenger service, but I suspect the only way it could wash its face is if you could magic up a bunch of local passengers for Corby/Kettering–Peterborough journeys.

I don't know. Peterborough is the eleventh most popular destination out of Leicester, with 111 passengers a day. If with a direct service Peterborough was the eleventh destination out of Kettering, then that particular station pair would generate 12 passengers a day.

A Manton S-E chord would only work if it enabled passenger connections across a wider area, and as you say, relieved freight congestion in the Leicester area.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Hopefully there's a cream for that !

Hey, that's rude! And you're normally polite!

 

[yorksrob]

Hey, that's rude! And you're normally polite!

I always think that the old ones are the best

 

[YorksLad12]

Skipton to Colne, and a cross-Bradford link, of course!

Yer barred!

Then again, I was waiting for someone to suggest a dedicated curve for the former Midland route into Leeds from the south, or possibly a Leeds Avoiding Line in the east (come off after Neville Hill via the existing line), demolish half of Hunslet with two curves NW and SE, and freight won't need paths through Leeds.

 

[Oxfordblues]

Askam-in-Furness to Millom with a new Duddon Viaduct, as originally proposed before the Furness Railway ran out of money (it would have cost only £37k in 1843!)

 

[65477]

One that has been suggested many times in the years I have known the area is an extension of the Central Line to Harlow.

 

[A S Leib]

One that has been suggested many times in the years I have known the area is an extension of the Central Line to Harlow.

Stansted to Braintree or Chelmsford and (possibly? I'm not quite sure if it's under 15 miles) Crossrail 2, sticking with lines which would benefit Harlow.

 

[brad465]

Two chords in Somerset: one to bypass Castle Cary for trains to/from Yeovil, another to bypass Taunton between Langport and Bridgwater. If combined with other Heart of Wessex upgrades further south (that allow new services in addition to the via Bath/Westbury ones), this would provide an additional route to Bristol from Yeovil and Weymouth, that also connects the large towns of Bridgwater and Weston-super-Mare, plus acts as a diversionary route during closures like the current Westbury one. Should stations at Langport and/or Somerton also reopen, services doing this could help serve them, and allow for an alternative interchange to Castle Cary if any services between Taunton and east of Castle Cary call too.

 

[quantinghome]

At Ely very very long piles. See this report about the Ely Southern bypass:

Delayed Ely Southern Bypass in £13m overspend

Costs have spiralled due to "tricky conditions", including building on a floodplain, the county council says.

www.bbc.co.uk

A short viaduct built 7 years ago ended up costing almost £50m.

Then there is the ongoing saga of the Ralph Butcher bridge at Kings Dyke:

Bridge lane closure in Peterborough a nightmare, says residents

The King's Dyke Bridge connects the Fenland town of Whittlesey to Peterborough.

www.bbc.co.uk

Geotechnical engineers have saying - you always pay for a decent ground investigation, whether you do one or not!