Manchester 13/14 Shoutiness Spreading across the Pennines

[Allwinter_Kit]

I got off the Northern York - Leeds shuttle on platform 7 the other evening, which then involves a bit of a schlep down Platform 8 to get to the ticket gates. Platform 8, as usual, had all sorts of bins, electric buggies, benches, people, etc. and so most people were walking on the train-side half of the platform, although (from my viewpoint) all were behind the yellow line.

This didn't satisfy the LNER dispatcher for the Kings Cross service, who had clearly learnt their craft on Platforms 13/14 at Manchester. Loud shouting "GET CLEAR! CLEAR THE TRAIN! GET BACK! GET BACK!" Repetitively as we all dondered down towards the gate. It was really aggressive and - given everyone appeared to be well clear of the platform edge - deeply unnecessary.

Was this just a one off or is the aggro-Manchester approach to platform pasenger control happening elsewhere too?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Was this just a one off or is the aggro-Manchester approach to platform pasenger control happening elsewhere too?

Yes, totally ineffective, angry shouting if people are half an inch over the yellow line now pervades, with nothing done about changing the layout of stuff on platforms that causes this to happen.

It was done in response to genuine concerns, but it doesn't ever work, because people don't tune in to random, barely audible shouting.

 

[Western 52]

You should hear it at Cardiff Central! Platforms can get very congested as they are narrow in places. Platform staff can be heard yelling at people who have few options in terms of where to wait. When a 10 car 800 is in the platform they shout telling people to use the full length of the platform, but its too congested to move.

 

[STINT47]

Just ignore the staff in situations like this. I don't aim to go near the platform edge but if it's unavoidable to get where I need to go then I go about my business and treat the shouts as annoying background noise.

 

[coxxy]

The staff on 13 and 14 and the constant barage of announcements are horrific tbh. Csnt help anyone.

 

[northernchris]

The LNER platform staff at Leeds are quite vocal, more so than Northern and the contractors TPE use. There's one who is quite unpleasant, but I think it's mostly down to how busy the platforms are at Leeds that they need to be a bit more forceful. LNER staff at Wakefield aren't anywhere near as shouty!

 

[Keithheller]

Crewe can be just as bad with the Avanti dispatchers. Had to laugh last Saturday. Punters mistook the newbie dispatcher for his arm waving to get behind the yellow line to be waving. So they waved back. Even some train crew flap at yellow line crossers! Unfortunately PTI is a big thing. Remember you may get sucked off by the train!!!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

You should hear it at Cardiff Central! Platforms can get very congested as they are narrow in places. Platform staff can be heard yelling at people who have few options in terms of where to wait. When a 10 car 800 is in the platform they shout telling people to use the full length of the platform, but its too congested to move.

The Cardiff Central dispatchers are notoriously rude. I used to see their bad manners on a daily basis.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Crewe can be just as bad with the Avanti dispatchers. Had to laugh last Saturday. Punters mistook the newbie dispatcher for his arm waving to get behind the yellow line to be waving. So they waved back. Even some train crew flap at yellow line crossers! Unfortunately PTI is a big thing.

PTI is indeed a big thing, but the railway is just failing to realise that shouting is not working as a solution to having people the wrong side of the line.

Remember you may get sucked off by the train!!!

Only at Penrith

 

[LowLevel]

Crewe can be just as bad with the Avanti dispatchers. Had to laugh last Saturday. Punters mistook the newbie dispatcher for his arm waving to get behind the yellow line to be waving. So they waved back. Even some train crew flap at yellow line crossers! Unfortunately PTI is a big thing. Remember you may get sucked off by the train!!!

Crewe have had a number of near misses reported by drivers with people alighting from trains, walking out to the edge of the adjacent platform and nearly being caught by electric trains approaching behind them with things like back packs slung out whilst they have earphones in.

Consequently I understand the management line is quite stern on the yellow line there and that feeds through to the staff as they will get into trouble if they are not seen to be complying with the instructions.

 

[bleeder4]

Dispatchers at Preston are shouty as well. No respect whatsoever. Many times I've seen them shouting at elderly people using walking aids as one part of the walking aid is on the yellow line.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Crewe have had a number of near misses reported by drivers with people alighting from trains, walking out to the edge of the adjacent platform and nearly being caught by electric trains approaching behind them with things like back packs slung out whilst they have earphones in.

Consequently I understand the management line is quite stern on the yellow line there and that feeds through to the staff as they will get into trouble if they are not seen to be complying with the instructions.

So a classic "pin it on the staff" rather than starting a programme of research into proper solutions? Figures. That's very railway.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Crewe have had a number of near misses reported by drivers with people alighting from trains, walking out to the edge of the adjacent platform and nearly being caught by electric trains approaching behind them with things like back packs slung out whilst they have earphones in.

Consequently I understand the management line is quite stern on the yellow line there and that feeds through to the staff as they will get into trouble if they are not seen to be complying with the instructions.

The only time I’ve been alarmed by the swirl of wind from a passing train while walking along a platform was at Nuneaton, some sections of the fast line platforms (125mph) are seriously narrow and the buildings / canopies act like a wind tunnel. Can’t say I recall anyone shouting at me tbh!

 

[mirodo]

You should hear it at Cardiff Central! Platforms can get very congested as they are narrow in places. Platform staff can be heard yelling at people who have few options in terms of where to wait. When a 10 car 800 is in the platform they shout telling people to use the full length of the platform, but its too congested to move.

Do they shout multilingually as per the automated announcements?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Yes, totally ineffective, angry shouting if people are half an inch over the yellow line now pervades, with nothing done about changing the layout of stuff on platforms that causes this to happen.

It was done in response to genuine concerns, but it doesn't ever work, because people don't tune in to random, barely audible shouting.

I completely concur!

 

[Western 52]

Do they shout multilingually as per the automated announcements?

No, English only!

 

[Russel]

The only time I’ve been alarmed by the swirl of wind from a passing train while walking along a platform was at Nuneaton, some sections of the fast line platforms (125mph) are seriously narrow and the buildings / canopies act like a wind tunnel. Can’t say I recall anyone shouting at me tbh!

Funny you should mention Nuneaton, I got off an Avanti from London just before Christmas and there was platform staff and Avanti train crew screaming at some poor guy just prior to departure, who, from what I could see, had one foot just over the yellow line.

Not only is it ineffective, it must have also been humiliating for the gent in question, if he shouted back at the staff in the way they had to him, I'm sure the BTP would have been called...

 

[43066]

It was done in response to genuine concerns, but it doesn't ever work, because people don't tune in to random, barely audible shouting.

On the occasions I’ve seen it (London Bridge mostly) it’s always fully justified, and seems to work extremely well.

If only people could follow simple instructions there would be no need for any shouting, of course, but that’s seemingly too much to hope for these days.

Even some train crew flap at yellow line crossers!

It’s worth keeping in mind that they may well have witnessed, and been traumatised by, the aftermath of what happens when someone ends up under the wheels of a train.

If people are too close I just tend to just lean on the loud-high horn tone. That always works wonders on a crowded platform as people seem to jump about twenty feet into the air!

 

[scotlass]

Southampton Central platform 1. +/- intercom

 

[J-2739]

Has anyone ever been ejected from a station, or prevented from travelling, for crossing the yellow line?

 

[Krokodil]

So a classic "pin it on the staff" rather than starting a programme of research into proper solutions? Figures. That's very railway.

They did switch the Chester shuttle to platform 12 for a while. The issue was trains arriving in platform 9, passengers going around the assembled crowd and nearly getting clobbered from behind by the Liverpool-Birmingham arriving in platform 6. Obviously platform 12 is inconvenient for the passengers, 10 would have been fine. Looks like services are using 9 again now.

 

[LittleRedTrain]

Saw a member of dispatch shouting at some train crew from the same TOC earlier, yelling that they should know better!

I've recounted before on here that I've seen dispatchers shout at anyone with so much as a toe across a yellow line, then proceed to walk between it and the platform edge with their back to traffic, sometimes chatting to a colleague, as if the hi-vis offers them protection from approaching trains.

Also a member of staff at Cardiff shouting at people trying to get a clear photo of a railtour, then stepping across the yellow line to get her own photo, blocking everyone else's view in the process!

 

[nanstallon]

No, English only!

Welsh speakers are more safety aware, and don't need shouting at?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Welsh speakers are more safety aware, and don't need shouting at?

Probably more the fact that pretty much every Welsh speaker will know enough English to understand what they're saying.

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

There seems to be an epidemic of shouting breaking out around the country. One issue is that you'll get one member of staff screaming at you to "move along, use the full length of the platform" except the only way to do that is to cross the yellow line to walk past the people and luggage that have blocked the platform behind the yellow line, and the minute one foot goes over the line, another staff member is screaming at you " stay behind the yellow line". This is especially infuriating when they then proceed to saunter down the space themselves, usually backwards while shouting and gesticulating at someone else. Either it's a risk and nobody should be there except during dispatch or it isn't a risk and is only there for a clear view when dispatching.

It's not calculated to make for a peaceful and relaxing journey for anyone...

Only at Penrith

Penrith town centre gets some interesting signs at times - made of the correct materials,with the correct fonts, that you wouldn't look at twice until you stop and read them. I suspect it's a joker at the local highway depot, although they do usually raise a smile.

 

[43066]

One issue is that you'll get one member of staff screaming at you to "move along, use the full length of the platform" except the only way to do that is to cross the yellow line to walk past the people and luggage that have blocked the platform behind the yellow line, and the minute one foot goes over the line, another staff member is screaming at you " stay behind the yellow line". This is especially infuriating when they then proceed to saunter down the space themselves, usually backwards while shouting and gesticulating at someone else. Either it's a risk and nobody should be there except during dispatch or it isn't a risk and is only there for a clear view when dispatching.

I’ve seen similar comments to this before on here, so I don’t mean to single you out, but with all due respect, surely it’s obvious why these aren’t equivalent situations?

It isn’t for passengers to worry about what the staff are doing. However the staff are trained and are being paid to take responsibility for operating the station safely, which includes monitoring and controlling what passengers are up to. Part of that is ensuring that nobody is too close to the platform edge.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jan 2025 ==

Saw a member of dispatch shouting at some train crew from the same TOC earlier, yelling that they should know better!

Well, they absolutely should. No fault found.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I’ve seen similar comments to this before on here, so I don’t mean to single you out, but with all due respect, surely it’s obvious why these aren’t equivalent situations?

It isn’t for passengers to worry about what the staff are doing. However the staff are trained and are being paid to take responsibility for operating the station safely, which includes monitoring and controlling what passengers are up to. Part of that is ensuring that nobody is too close to the platform edge.

While technically you're right, telling someone to do something then doing something different comes across as hypocritical and is thus much less effective than demonstrating safe actions to the public. "Do as I say, not as I do" is a very poor method of teaching; teaching by example works much better.

Therefore, when not actually dispatching, staff should remain behind the yellow line themselves, and only cross it where this is actually necessary for safety. And non operational staff who have no role in dispatch such as security and cleaners should ALWAYS be behind the line unless actually boarding or alighting.

 

[43066]

While technically you're right, telling someone to do something then doing something different comes across as hypocritical and is thus much less effective than demonstrating safe actions to the public. "Do as I say, not as I do" is a very poor method of teaching; teaching by example works much better.

Station staff members aren’t there to “model” expected behaviour, though. The reason they wear uniform is because of they are supposed to be identifiable authority figures who can give instructions where necessary. “Do as I say, not as I do” is surely par for the course in that situation?

In just the same way, if you saw me jumping onto the tracks as a PTS trained staff member, that wouldn’t make it acceptable, or any less or a criminal offence, for you to follow suit.

For the record, I’m deeply uncomfortable with the example upthread, of a staff member ordering people back and then taking a photo themselves, for exactly the same reasons. That smacks of someone misusing the authority their job gives them in order to indulge their personal interests.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Station staff members aren’t there to “model” expected behaviour, though?

I think they are when it comes to safety, except where their job specifically requires otherwise.

The reason they wear uniform is because of they are supposed to be identifiable authority figures who can give instructions where necessary. “Do as I say, not as I do” is surely par for the course in that situation

It's ineffective. Just like shouting is.

Just as I could jump onto the tracks if necessary, because I’m a PTS trained staff member. That wouldn’t make it acceptable, or any less or a criminal offence, for you to do it.

But you presumably wouldn't do that unless you had a specific reason to do so - you'd not just jump down and wander down the line to avoid a crowd on the platform. Whereas some staff saunter down the wrong side of the yellow line just because they can, and that is terrible optics.

If their role, such as dispatch, requires them to be on the other side of the line, then it requires that. But once that's complete they should step back to the safe side. Many don't.

For the record I’m deeply uncomfortable with the example upthread, of a staff member ordering people back and then taking a photo themselves, for exactly the same reasons. That looks like someone misusing the authority their job gives them to indulge their personal interests.

Agreed.

 

[Fokx]

Is it really that difficult to just not stand/walk behind the yellow safety line in the first instance?