What does TFL Rail Only mean on a PTAC oyster?

[martin2345uk]

Just after some clarification here. If a PTAC oyster ID card is marked “TFL Rail Only”, what modes should that be valid on..?

 

[ThameslinkUser]

It is ill-advised to be basing your legal opinion regarding discounted fares on RailUKForums. You really ought to be looking at your employer's internal policies.

 

[martin2345uk]

Not basing anything on anything, just after people’s views.

 

[Ralph Ayres]

Just after some clarification here. If a PTAC oyster ID card is marked “TFL Rail Only”, what modes should that be valid on..?

All services on rails run by Transport for London except the (Croydon) trams, so Underground, Overground, DLR and Elizabeth line throughout, but inconveniently not other operators' services running on the same lines or between the same stations. As referred to above, you should have been given (and signed for) full details when you were given the card so be careful as misuse is a disciplinary offence.

 

[martin2345uk]

All services on rails run by Transport for London except the (Croydon) trams, so Underground, Overground, DLR and Elizabeth line throughout, but inconveniently not other operators' services running on the same lines or between the same stations. As referred to above, you should have been given (and signed for) full details when you were given the card so be careful as misuse is a disciplinary offence.

Indeed this was my view, the only reason I’m asking is my partner who’s card is also marked TFL rail only was advised by a lady at Tottenham Court Road that TFL rail only means it’s NOT valid on the tube or the Elizabeth Line…

 

[ThameslinkUser]

"Govia Thameslink Railway, London North Eastern Railway and Eurostar PTAC

• Issued to staff employed by GTR, LNER and Eurostar

• Also issued to Eurostar staff partners and dependants

• Allows Priv rate pay as you go travel on Tube, London Overground and Elizabeth line services"

Book 3, page 65 in:

FOI request detail

FOI request detail

tfl.gov.uk

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jan 2025 ==

Book 3, page 64 also states:

Priv TfL Rail:

• For dependent children of staff who joined TfL after 1 April 1996 for travel on TfL's rail services, including the Elizabeth line, only

 

[martin2345uk]

Thanks, I shall of course be clarifying with my work also.

 

[Surreytraveller]

What dies the lady at Tottenham Court Road think it's valid on, then?

 

[martin2345uk]

Overground apparently?!

 

[Surreytraveller]

Surely it works the barriers? So no need to interact with her anyway?

 

[martin2345uk]

So it was his first time trying to use it, and he was tapping the yellow photocard rather than the actual Oyster card (I know…)

 

[Surreytraveller]

Does it not say on it where it's valid? Mine specifically says Including Elizabeth Line and London Overground, as Rail Staff Travel print it on there now as TfL staff cannot be trusted to be competent

 

[martin2345uk]

His (and mine) say only:

This Card may be used for Privilege rate Oyster Pay As You Go on services operated by TfL Rail services.

 

[hkstudent]

TfL Rail services means all rail based services run by TfL which means all LU, LO, Elizabeth and DLR services.

Tram is deemed as similar to bus so not counted as rail. But TOC staff priv gives free travel on tram anyway.

Anyway, training on the fine details on revenue is deemed difficult to quite some TfL frontline staffs.

 

[Joe Paxton]

His (and mine) say only:

This Card may be used for Privilege rate Oyster Pay As You Go on services operated by TfL Rail services.

Is that verbatim? If so, it's a slightly odd formulation of words.

 

[martin2345uk]

Is that verbatim? If so, it's a slightly odd formulation of words.

Yes I copied and pasted that

 

[Nottingham59]

TfL Rail services means all rail based services run by TfL which means all LU, LO, Elizabeth and DLR services.

This Card may be used for Privilege rate Oyster Pay As You Go on services operated by TfL Rail services.

Transport for London today use on their website the phrase "TfL Rail" to refer to the bits of the Elizabeth Line beyond Paddington and Liverpool Street. It is possible that the wording on the Oyster Card refers to that, and is now out of date.

Given the consequences of getting it wrong, it might be wise to check and get the response in writing.

What we do

TfL is responsible for the day-to-day running of the capital's transport system.

tfl.gov.uk

The Elizabeth line brought together two sections of railway running as TfL Rail with a new section under central London in 2022. The new section with its 10 new stations was built by Crossrail Ltd.

 

[martin2345uk]

Transport for London today use on their website the phrase "TfL Rail" to refer to the bits of the Elizabeth Line beyond Paddington and Liverpool Street. It is possible that the wording on the Oyster Card refers to that, and is now out of date.

Given the consequences of getting it wrong, it might be wise to check and get the response in writing.

What we do

TfL is responsible for the day-to-day running of the capital's transport system.

tfl.gov.uk

This has crossed my mind; I have emailed our travel perks office to confirm.
If that were to be the case then a LOT of staff have been using the Oyster incorrectly for a very long time!

 

[Nottingham59]

This has crossed my mind; I have emailed our travel perks office to confirm.
If that were to be the case then a LOT of staff have been using the Oyster incorrectly for a very long time!

If the wording had been "This Card may be used for Privilege rate Oyster Pay As You Go on services operated by TfL rail services", without the capital letter, then if would be fair to interpret that as "rail services" operated by TfL.

The capital R in Rail makes me think that they really did mean services operated by "TfL Rail". Funny how a single capital letter changes the meaning so much.

 

[James H]

'TfL Rail' was an interim brand before the the Elizabeth line central section opened. It's not a brand in current use since the start of through-running on the EL.

 

[Joe Paxton]

'TfL Rail' was an interim brand before the the Elizabeth line central section opened. It's not a brand in current use since the start of through-running on the EL.

Agreed, "TfL Rail" was an interim branding measure that lasted somewhat longer than originally intended, as the opening of Crossrail / the Elizabeth line got put back.

Meanwhile "...services operated by TfL Rail services" - whether with or without a capital 'R' - is a slightly ambiguous phrase either way.

 

[Haywain]

There is unhelpful ambiguity in the thread title and opening post. PTAC cards are issued by TfL to their own safeguarded staff to allow priv rate travel on National Rail services. PAYG Oyster is a different thing and can gave an assortment of discounts applied to it. It seems it is probably the latter that is being discussed here, although the term "oyster ID card" suggests a photocard issued by TfL, such as staff nominee cards.

 

[martin2345uk]

There is unhelpful ambiguity in the thread title and opening post. PTAC cards are issued by TfL to their own safeguarded staff to allow priv rate travel on National Rail services. PAYG Oyster is a different thing and can gave an assortment of discounts applied to it. It seems it is probably the latter that is being discussed here, although the term "oyster ID card" suggests a photocard issued by TfL, such as staff nominee cards.

I’m not sure what’s ambiguous..? The photo card associated with the oyster says PTAC on it..? And does for all staff of our TOC..?

 

[Haywain]

I’m not sure what’s ambiguous..? The photo card associated with the oyster says PTAC on it..? And does for all staff of our TOC..?

If you named the TOC you might get clearer answers! TOC arrangements with TfL vary quite a lot.

 

[martin2345uk]

Fair point, it’s Eurostar, I’d honestly be surprised if they are still giving their staff discounted oysters that can only be used on the outer parts of the Elizabeth Line..?

 

[Surreytraveller]

Fair point, it’s Eurostar, I’d honestly be surprised if they are still giving their staff discounted oysters that can only be used on the outer parts of the Elizabeth Line..?

Sorry, I thought you worked for TfL. TfL Rail means Overground, Elizabeth Line, Underground and DLR.
You also get National Rail only, which is everything except Underground and DLR (but includes Elizabeth Line and Overground, as they're part of National Rail), and you get All Rail, which is everything.

 

[martin2345uk]

Ah sorry I should have mentioned that from the start!

 

[Surreytraveller]

Ah sorry I should have mentioned that from the start!

Which is what confused me, as I thought surely TfL staff get a TfL pass, and don't need a TfL Rail PTAC!