Prosecution for short fare - Transport Investigations Ltd

[abab156]

Hello,

I made the stupid decision to pay for a short fare for my train journey into Cardiff Central. Essentially, I arrived at my starting station running late and did not have a ticket, the gates were open so I boarded the train without purchasing one. No ticket inspectors were on board, but when leaving Cardiff central, there were people checking tickets. I panicked thinking I may be fined for not having one, so purchased one quickly and, trying to save some money, bought a short fare, which they detected on their machines.
I know this was a stupid decision, as mentioned, but I was not thinking about my consequences at the time, and did not know they could be so severe.

I was taken aside by the person checking my ticket and they took my details. I was with my partner at the time, I also paid for their short fare ticket. They were taken aside separately but when they noticed they were not from the UK, they made them pay the correct train fare and left it at that.

I received a letter from TIL saying they were taking on my case, which could result in prosecution. I responded to them asking them to settle this administratively, as per attached, and they have responded saying they see no reason not to take this to court (also attached). I understand why they have chosen this, however I am terrified of prosecution. I am currently applying for a role in the police and in the future may want to move country to live with my partner, both of which prosecution could prevent. It’s upsetting to know my whole future could be impacted based on this decision.
I am at a loss of what to do at this stage and am please asking for any advice on how to move forward.

 

[notmyrealname]

Hi.

I expect the rail experts will answer you later. I'm not one of them but I know that it can take three times of writing to TIL for them to grant you a settlement if they're minded to. All is not lost at the moment.

And the experts will explain about Byelaw offences and what the impact could be.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello,

I made the stupid decision to pay for a short fare for my train journey into Cardiff Central. Essentially, I arrived at my starting station running late and did not have a ticket, the gates were open so I boarded the train without purchasing one. No ticket inspectors were on board, but when leaving Cardiff central, there were people checking tickets. I panicked thinking I may be fined for not having one, so purchased one quickly and, trying to save some money, bought a short fare, which they detected on their machines.
I know this was a stupid decision, as mentioned, but I was not thinking about my consequences at the time, and did not know they could be so severe.

I was taken aside by the person checking my ticket and they took my details. I was with my partner at the time, I also paid for their short fare ticket. They were taken aside separately but when they noticed they were not from the UK, they made them pay the correct train fare and left it at that.

I received a letter from TIL saying they were taking on my case, which could result in prosecution. I responded to them asking them to settle this administratively, as per attached, and they have responded saying they see no reason not to take this to court (also attached). I understand why they have chosen this, however I am terrified of prosecution. I am currently applying for a role in the police and in the future may want to move country to live with my partner, both of which prosecution could prevent. It’s upsetting to know my whole future could be impacted based on this decision.
I am at a loss of what to do at this stage and am please asking for any advice on how to move forward.

Yes, TIL who act as contractor on behalf of certain rail operators do seem to push back hard on this and we have seen this before in other threads.

I would think that with most other train operators the wording of your letter would have done the trick to secure an out of court settlement.

So, all you can do is write again making the same or similar points, focus on trying to convince them this was not about deliberately evading the fare due. Your actions of buying a short fare have not helped in this regard but you need to say you realise this was a 'serious error of judgment' and will never happen again.

Might be an idea to put draft of your next letter up here for people to check before you send it.

as an aside the other person not from the UK may have bene given the benefit of the doubt on the basis that they might not know how things worked in the UK ref buying train fares, when you are expected to know, but more likely simply because the Inspector reckons getting someone who might randomly leave the country at any time to go to their home outside UK, into a court, is a lot less easier than getting you, for example, into court - so getting them to pay up then and there might have been the pragmatic choice to at least get some money from that passenger. It's kind of how I'd hope to be treated if say I was caught with wrong ticket in a foreign country.

 

[abab156]

Yes, TIL who act as contractor on behalf of certain rail operators do seem to push back hard on this and we have seen this before in other threads.

I would think that with most other train operators the wording of your letter would have done the trick to secure an out of court settlement.

So, all you can do is write again making the same or similar points, focus on trying to convince them this was not about deliberately evading the fare due. Your actions of buying a short fare have not helped in this regard but you need to say you realise this was a 'serious error of judgment' and will never happen again.

Might be an idea to put draft of your next letter up here for people to check before you send it.

as an aside the other person not from the UK may have bene given the benefit of the doubt on the basis that they might not know how things worked in the UK ref buying train fares, when you are expected to know, but more likely simply because the Inspector reckons getting someone who might randomly leave the country at any time to go to their home outside UK, into a court, is a lot less easier than getting you, for example, into court - so getting them to pay up then and there might have been the pragmatic choice to at least get some money from that passenger. It's kind of how I'd hope to be treated if say I was caught with wrong ticket in a foreign country.

Hi.

I expect the rail experts will answer you later. I'm not one of them but I know that it can take three times of writing to TIL for them to grant you a settlement if they're minded to. All is not lost at the moment.

And the experts will explain about Byelaw

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Dec 2024 ==

Hi.

I expect the rail experts will answer you later. I'm not one of them but I know that it can take three times of writing to TIL for them to grant you a settlement if they're minded to. All is not lost at the moment.

And the experts will explain about Byelaw offences and what the impact could be.

Thanks for your response. That’s helpful to know, gives me a tiny bit more hope …

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Dec 2024 ==

Yes, TIL who act as contractor on behalf of certain rail operators do seem to push back hard on this and we have seen this before in other threads.

I would think that with most other train operators the wording of your letter would have done the trick to secure an out of court settlement.

So, all you can do is write again making the same or similar points, focus on trying to convince them this was not about deliberately evading the fare due. Your actions of buying a short fare have not helped in this regard but you need to say you realise this was a 'serious error of judgment' and will never happen again.

Might be an idea to put draft of your next letter up here for people to check before you send it.

as an aside the other person not from the UK may have bene given the benefit of the doubt on the basis that they might not know how things worked in the UK ref buying train fares, when you are expected to know, but more likely simply because the Inspector reckons getting someone who might randomly leave the country at any time to go to their home outside UK, into a court, is a lot less easier than getting you, for example, into court - so getting them to pay up then and there might have been the pragmatic choice to at least get some money from that passenger. It's kind of how I'd hope to be treated if say I was caught with wrong ticket in a foreign country.

Yes, TIL who act as contractor on behalf of certain rail operators do seem to push back hard on this and we have seen this before in other threads.

I would think that with most other train operators the wording of your letter would have done the trick to secure an out of court settlement.

So, all you can do is write again making the same or similar points, focus on trying to convince them this was not about deliberately evading the fare due. Your actions of buying a short fare have not helped in this regard but you need to say you realise this was a 'serious error of judgment' and will never happen again.

Might be an idea to put draft of your next letter up here for people to check before you send it.

as an aside the other person not from the UK may have bene given the benefit of the doubt on the basis that they might not know how things worked in the UK ref buying train fares, when you are expected to know, but more likely simply because the Inspector reckons getting someone who might randomly leave the country at any time to go to their home outside UK, into a court, is a lot less easier than getting you, for example, into court - so getting them to pay up then and there might have been the pragmatic choice to at least get some money from that passenger. It's kind of how I'd hope to be treated if say I was caught with wrong ticket in a foreign country.

Yes, TIL who act as contractor on behalf of certain rail operators do seem to push back hard on this and we have seen this before in other threads.

I would think that with most other train operators the wording of your letter would have done the trick to secure an out of court settlement.

So, all you can do is write again making the same or similar points, focus on trying to convince them this was not about deliberately evading the fare due. Your actions of buying a short fare have not helped in this regard but you need to say you realise this was a 'serious error of judgment' and will never happen again.

Might be an idea to put draft of your next letter up here for people to check before you send it.

as an aside the other person not from the UK may have bene given the benefit of the doubt on the basis that they might not know how things worked in the UK ref buying train fares, when you are expected to know, but more likely simply because the Inspector reckons getting someone who might randomly leave the country at any time to go to their home outside UK, into a court, is a lot less easier than getting you, for example, into court - so getting them to pay up then and there might have been the pragmatic choice to at least get some money from that passenger. It's kind of how I'd hope to be treated if say I was caught with wrong ticket in a foreign country.

Hi, thanks so much for your response. Paying the short fare does indeed make it difficult to emphasise I did not mean to evade the fare, and I'm not sure there's anything I can say to make it seem this way. I imagine they don't want to hear "sob stories" so am thinking it's probably not useful to include my reasons for being worried about prosecution, as in my original post. So i assume the only angle I can really take is just to reiterate that I'm in the wrong and, as you said, really express that it won't happen again.

I’ve attached my drafted letter, if you or anyone else could take the time to read this and give me any pointers, I would be incredibly grateful.

I don’t know if it’s worth adding some detail on the reasons I didn’t pay for the full fare, there are some feeble excuses I can provide, but ultimately I did decide to pay for the incorrect ticket, so not sure if it’s worth leaving this out…

 

[WesternLancer]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Dec 2024 ==


Thanks for your response. That’s helpful to know, gives me a tiny bit more hope …

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Dec 2024 ==




Hi, thanks so much for your response. Paying the short fare does indeed make it difficult to emphasise I did not mean to evade the fare, and I'm not sure there's anything I can say to make it seem this way. I imagine they don't want to hear "sob stories" so am thinking it's probably not useful to include my reasons for being worried about prosecution, as in my original post. So i assume the only angle I can really take is just to reiterate that I'm in the wrong and, as you said, really express that it won't happen again.

I’ve attached my drafted letter, if you or anyone else could take the time to read this and give me any pointers, I would be incredibly grateful.

I don’t know if it’s worth adding some detail on the reasons I didn’t pay for the full fare, there are some feeble excuses I can provide, but ultimately I did decide to pay for the incorrect ticket, so not sure if it’s worth leaving this out…

Looks generally OK to me as a next step message to send them - perhaps wait 24 hours or so before sending it to see if others comment on the content / suggest any alterations.

 

[John R]

Rather than “proposing the possibility”, I would make it a more explicit very nice request. Eg “I would be extremely grateful if you would consider the possibility…”

 

[MotCO]

Rather than “proposing the possibility”, I would make it a more explicit very nice request. Eg “I would be extremely grateful if you would consider the possibility…”

Agree with this, and maybe add your reference / case number so it is easier for TIL to match your response to your case.

 

[abab156]

Rather than “proposing the possibility”, I would make it a more explicit very nice request. Eg “I would be extremely grateful if you would consider the possibility…”

Okay thanks for the tip

 

[Hadders]

Transport Investigations Limited generally play 'hard ball' when it comes to giving out of court settlements. You normally have to write to them a couple of times - it's as though they want you to beg for one!

There was nothing wrong with your initial reply, essentially send something similar to them again and I'd be surprised if you're not offered a settlement.

Do let us know how you get on.

 

[AlterEgo]

I’ve suspected for a while that TIL invoice the train company separately for each piece of correspondence they handle, which is why they reject everyone first time - generating even more correspondence.

 

[abab156]

Hi all,

I sent another email as advised. I have today received the attached letter. I am again not sure where to go from here, can anyone please offer advice? It looks like they’re pushing for a court date… I am very scared. Should I be getting a lawyer at this stage??

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jan 2025 ==

 

[AndroidBango]

Is this your second attempt at contacting TIL? It often takes a third for them to offer a settlement figure.

 

[abab156]

Is this your second attempt at contacting TIL? It often takes a third for them to offer a settlement figure.

Yes this is after my second time contacting them. There is no mention of me needing to respond further in their most recent letter so wasn’t sure if I could still ask them for an out of court settlement

 

[Haywain]

wasn’t sure if I could still ask them for an out of court settlement

You can ask, and probably should. The worst that can happen is they say no again.

 

[Hadders]

Yes this is after my second time contacting them. There is no mention of me needing to respond further in their most recent letter so wasn’t sure if I could still ask them for an out of court settlement

You'ne nothing to lose by asking if they will settle out of court.

 

[abab156]

Thanks for your responses. I will contact them and ask them again. Is this typically the kind of steps they take? As mentioned above, they haven’t asked for further comment and are now talking of a court date, so this time seems more decisive I guess.

Additionally, if anyone can advise the kind of things I should include in my response I would be grateful
I know I need to apologise and ensure them this won’t happen again etc, but should I go further and discuss my worries for my future, or would this seem too much like begging?
Also should I include that I initially intended to pay on the train but there was no inspector present or is this more incriminating in a way? Any tips are welcomed, thanks.

 

[furlong]

Yes, it's not unusual - cynics suspected they got paid more for their work if they stretched out the process to involve additional letters...
If you covered all the bases before, just write the same thing again in slightly different words.
The big clue is that it was a generic response that had not been customised, as it should have been, to address specifically what you wrote to them.

 

[gray1404]

I’ve suspected for a while that TIL invoice the train company separately for each piece of correspondence they handle, which is why they reject everyone first time - generating even more correspondence.

I suspect so too. Not only is this treating people unfairly but given TfW is a public body, TIL are abusing public funds. I wonder if a FOI request to TfW about the amount of money and arrangements between them and TIL would expose some dirt and bring to light once and for all the TIL scandal. They surely are on borrowed time!

 

[JordR]

I suspect so too. Not only is this treating people unfairly but given TfW is a public body, TIL are abusing public funds. I wonder if a FOI request to TfW about the amount of money and arrangements between them and TIL would expose some dirt and bring to light once and for all the TIL scandal. They surely are on borrowed time!

Unfortunately most or all of that would likely be rejected under the commercially sensitive exception. You might be able to get a redacted copy of the contract that reveals or hints at the pricing mechanism if not the amounts.

 

[Hadders]

Moderator Note - discussion about whether TIL are abusing public funds and FOIing TfW about commercial arrangements between them is off-topic for this thread and further discussion should take place in a new thread.

 

[Krokodil]

I’ve suspected for a while that TIL invoice the train company separately for each piece of correspondence they handle, which is why they reject everyone first time - generating even more correspondence.

Surely it just gets added to the costs the OP will be charged (either in court or by means of a settlement).

 

[abab156]

I am about to send a response to TIL, as per the attached image. If anyone could please have a look and let me know if this is okay I would be so grateful. I’m worried it might be too long and sound too much like I am begging, but at this stage I kind of am…

 

[Hadders]

I would make some changes to this letter, if you haven't already sent it, to try and make it sound a little less desperate.

I would make the following points:

- That you realise what you did was wrong
- What you have learned and any action you have taken since the incident
- Ask again if they will consider TfW will consider settling out of court if you pay the outstanding fare and their admin costs in dealing with the matter

You could also refer to TfW's Revenue Protection Policy that says

The letter you have been sent is s standard response from TIL. It doesn't say you will be prosecuted it says you may be prosecuted. I can't be 100% certain but I think what TIL do next is refer to TfW for them to decide what happens. I still think there's a reasonable chance they will offer you a settlement.

 

[abab156]

I would make some changes to this letter, if you haven't already sent it, to try and make it sound a little less desperate.

I would make the following points:

- That you realise what you did was wrong
- What you have learned and any action you have taken since the incident
- Ask again if they will consider TfW will consider settling out of court if you pay the outstanding fare and their admin costs in dealing with the matter

You could also refer to TfW's Revenue Protection Policy that says

The letter you have been sent is s standard response from TIL. It doesn't say you will be prosecuted it says you may be prosecuted. I can't be 100% certain but I think what TIL do next is refer to TfW for them to decide what happens. I still think there's a reasonable chance they will offer you a settlement.

Thanks for the tips. I’m not too sure what to include in regard to their RPP, I’ve had a look on their website which states that they can offer a failure to purchase notice when first flagged by them. However it states further down that short fares are most likely to result in prosecution, which is what I was reported for, so not sure if this point would be valid.

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for the tips. I’m not too sure what to include in regard to their RPP, I’ve had a look on their website which states that they can offer a failure to purchase notice when first flagged by them. However it states further down that short fares are most likely to result in prosecution, which is what I was reported for, so not sure if this point would be valid.

Apologies, I meant to delete the bit about the revenue protection policy. I was checking the policy as I was writing that post and was hoping it said something different to what it actually says.

In my defence it was very late last night….

 

[abab156]

Apologies, I meant to delete the bit about the revenue protection policy. I was checking the policy as I was writing that post and was hoping it said something different to what it actually says.

In my defence it was very late last night….

No worries! I did wonder if you missed something off…

I’ve drafted a new response below, would you, or anyone else, mind having a quick read if you have the time and let me know if it sounds a bit better?

“I again sincerely apologise for making the decision to purchase a short fare ticket for my journey. I did this at a time when I had low funds and selfishly bought the ticket with only the thought of saving myself some money in mind. It was not intended as a malicious or thought-out act to harm TFW. I am young and naïve and did not consider what I was doing or how it would contribute to the larger scale detriments to TFW.

I have reflected upon my actions and can now appreciate how wrong they were. I fully understand how unfair it is to other train users to pay the incorrect fare, and how much revenue loss this can result in for the train companies. For this I am incredibly sorry.

I have travelled once via train since this incident, and purchased the correct ticket for my journey in line with TFW’s Buy Before You Board policy. I can assure you I will never do this again and will always pay the full and correct fare that is due of me before boarding the train on all future train journeys I may take.

I am again asking if TFW would kindly consider accepting my offer to settle this matter with an out of court settlement. I am willing to pay the full outstanding fare and the admin costs incurred from dealing with this matter.

I await your response and thank you for taking the time to read my letter.”

 

[30907]

I think you could cut most of the first paragraph, leaving just the first sentence - cheating is still cheating, even if you didn't think it through

Rather than "accepting my offer" I would say "offering" - you are not in a position to offer, only they can do that.

Good luck.

 

[Hadders]

I agree with the amendments suggested by @30907 Please do keep us updated.

 

[abab156]

For those interested, I received an out of court settlement today! Thanks to everyone who offered help and advice, you’ve made navigating this a lot easier and it’s greatly appreciated.
It’s been a very expensive lesson learnt!

 

[WesternLancer]

For those interested, I received an out of court settlement today! Thanks to everyone who offered help and advice, you’ve made navigating this a lot easier and it’s greatly appreciated.
It’s been a very expensive lesson learnt!

Thanks for the feedback - TIL are notoriously difficult to deal with so I think you have done well to achieve that outcome, even tho I know it will seem harsh.

Don't feel you have to, but if you were able to share some idea of the settlement (eg cost of new ticket for example without detailing the price if you don't wish to do so) and the 'admin' they charged it might help future people who have this issue to deal with regarding TfW services, and what to expect.