Caught using another persons Oyster card

[nate44]

A couple of days ago I was using an Oyster card I found on the floor (11-15). I had been using if for some time but not all the time as I only used it to get to central London. I was caught at Liverpool Street station and was reported by an inspector. I have now received a verification in which I have cooperated and have not made any excuse for. What are my next steps? How long will it take them to get back to me and sort this out as it’s giving me sleepless nights. I know what I did was wrong so there’s no point of berating.

 

[Haywain]

First, no one here is going to be berating you. Second, you will probably have to wait a few weeks to hear back and what you will get will be a summons or Single Justice Procedure Notice. That will mean you are being prosecuted for an offence. That will result in the case being heard around 4 weeks later and you will then be notified of the level of fine that has been imposed and thecosts and compensation you are required to pay on top of the fine.

You are, effectively, in the system now and there is nothing that you can do to alter the timescales and get things over with.

 

[nate44]

Is there a chance that they will just send only a penalty notice instead of going this route?

 

[Haywain]

Is there a chance that they will just send only a penalty notice instead of going this route?

No, none at all.

 

[nate44]

No, none at all.

Oh no . I don’t want this to go to court with possible criminal record ramifications. I just want to pay what I owe and move on

 

[SuspectUsual]

Oh no . I don’t want this to go to court with possible criminal record ramifications. I just want to pay what I owe and move on

Sorry, but that isn’t how TfL operates 99.99% of the time. To be blunt, if you didn’t want a criminal record you shouldn’t have repeatedly and knowingly committed a criminal offence

Sorry if that sounds harsh, but that’s how it works

 

[nate44]

Does the fact I’m cooperating and not Trying to fight it be a bit of a cushioning for the punishment? And plus what’s the extent of this being on my criminal record? How long will it no on there for?

 

[jfollows]

See https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/prosecutions and specifically https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf

A court will impose an income-based fine minus a third for an early guilty plea, plus costs as requested by TfL.

Search this forum for more, for example from

Pls help! TFL Single Justice Procedure plea FARE EVASION prosecution

Hi all, Please help/advise me I really urgently need it! On 4th November 2024, I have received a Single Justice Procedure notice (SJPN) and have until 25th November 2024 to send my plea by email or post. On the 16th of October 2024, I was running and rushing late to my university lecture and...

www.railforums.co.uk

TfL often prosecute using the Single Justice Procedure Notice. You have three choices in how to proceed:

1. Plead NOT GUILTY - you will have to attend court in person for a trial
2. Plead GUILTY but ask to appear in person. This won't change the fact that you're guilty but you can present any mitigating factors you want the court to take into account before they decide the level of punishment to impose which will be a fine.
3. Plead GUILTY - and give your mitigation in writing when youi reply. The court will consider this and write to you with details of the fine you have to pay.

If you are plead guilty (or are found guilty by the court following a trial) then you will have to pay:

- A fine based on your income
- A surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
- A contribution towards TfL's costs
- Compensation for the fares avoided

If you are found guilty then this is a criminal conviction. If you are prosecuted under the TfL Bylaws (which is what normally happens) then the conviction isn't normally recorded on the Police National Computer and won't normally appear on Basic DBS checks although we always advise people to be honest when asked if they have a conviction.
A criminal conviction for a railway ticketing matter won't normally affect future career prospects.

 

[nate44]

See https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/prosecutions and specifically https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf

A court will impose an income-based fine minus a third for an early guilty plea, plus costs as requested by TfL.

Thank you very much

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Does the fact I’m cooperating and not Trying to fight it be a bit of a cushioning for the punishment?

If you plead guilty when you get the SJPN, then you'll get the maximum reduction in the fine - but there will still be a fine to pay. If you fought the case (pleaded not guilty, went to court but were then found guilty) then you wouldn't get the reduction and would have to pay more.

And plus what’s the extent of this being on my criminal record? How long will it no on there for?

There will be people who are more expert than I am so this advice might change, but my understanding is that TfL normally prosecute under their bylaws. My further understanding is that for most purposes bylaw convictions are 'spent' either immediately or after a year - which means that for most purposes once they're spent you don't have to tell anyone about them. But there are some exceptions to offences being spent - some employers (and similar) can ask even about spent convictions if the job/volunteering opportunity/etc. is one where the person needs to be particularly trustworthy. Organisations who are allowed to ask about spent convictions will make it very clear on any form you have to fill in. And there's also an argument that this is the sort of conviction that the USA want to know about for their visa waiver scheme.

But you should be aware that on the scale of criminal activity, fare dodging is fairly low down. I'm sorry if this sounds judgemental, but it's not good that you have done it, and even less good that you did it repeatedly - but even so it's far less serious than many other offences: many employers (etc.) who you have to tell about it will consider it a simple mistake, and as long as there's nothing else on your record will not worry about it: in many cases, hiding something like this when you're required to disclose it will be seen as a more serious problem (if you hide something like this, the employer will ask themselves, what else might you hide if something goes wrong at work? They could decide that the hiding makes you untrustworthy).

So overall it would be good if you weren't here - but given that you are here, it's not the end of the world. Your plan of pleading guilty as soon as TfL write to you sounds like a good one.

 

[nate44]

So moving forward what advice would you give me to put me in the best place in terms of the proceedings

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If you plead guilty when you get the SJPN, then you'll get the maximum reduction in the fine - but there will still be a fine to pay. If you fought the case (pleaded not guilty, went to court but were then found guilty) then you wouldn't get the reduction and would have to pay more.

There will be people who are more expert than I am so this advice might change, but my understanding is that TfL normally prosecute under their bylaws. My further understanding is that for most purposes bylaw convictions are 'spent' either immediately or after a year - which means that for most purposes once they're spent you don't have to tell anyone about them. But there are some exceptions to offences being spent - some employers (and similar) can ask even about spent convictions if the job/volunteering opportunity/etc. is one where the person needs to be particularly trustworthy. Organisations who are allowed to ask about spent convictions will make it very clear on any form you have to fill in. And there's also an argument that this is the sort of conviction that the USA want to know about for their visa waiver scheme.

But you should be aware that on the scale of criminal activity, fare dodging is fairly low down. I'm sorry if this sounds judgemental, but it's not good that you have done it, and even less good that you did it repeatedly - but even so it's far less serious than many other offences: many employers (etc.) who you have to tell about it will consider it a simple mistake, and as long as there's nothing else on your record will not worry about it: in many cases, hiding something like this when you're required to disclose it will be seen as a more serious problem (if you hide something like this, the employer will ask themselves, what else might you hide if something goes wrong at work? They could decide that the hiding makes you untrustworthy).

So overall it would be good if you weren't here - but given that you are here, it's not the end of the world. Your plan of pleading guilty as soon as TfL write to you sounds like a good one.

Thank you very much for that

 

[notmyrealname]

I'm not sure there is much you can do in terms of easing things, apart from co-operating. The process seems very black and white with TfL.

Something that is important is to pay the correct fare from now on, so you don't come to their attention again.

 

[Pushpit]

So moving forward what advice would you give me to put me in the best place in terms of the proceedings

For completeness, there are 2 types of cases that seem to get a Final Warning rather than a court summons. And straight up I can't see how this helps you given what you have said so far. The first type is when there is some very substantial mitigation for your actions - for example longstanding, well documented health issues. Secondly those who spend £500 to £1,000 on a specialist solicitor, who then delves into your background to find the best possible mitigation for you. Given what you had said, I doubt even a solicitor could get you out of this, but there again solicitors are experts in finding things out.

Unless there is some other factor you haven't mentioned (and there is no need to mention here) I would expect this to result in a SJP summons or an in person court summons. TfL take 200 to 500 people to court every week.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Transport for London take misuse of Zip Oyster cards very seriously and a prosecution under the TfL Bylaws is the usual outcome.

What happens next is TfL will send you a Verification Letter, normally within a couple of weeks. The letter will ask you to confirm or deny the incident and ask you to give any mitigating circumstances which you would like them to take into account when deciding how to proceed.

I suggest you mention the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and TfL's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

TfL do not offer out of court settlements although in some very limited circumstances they have been known to issue a final warning instead of prosecution. Prosecutions are normally done through what is called a Single Justice Procedure Notice. This means that if you plead guilty it is not necessary to attend court in person (unless you choose to do), you simply return the form to the court with any mitigation you want them to take into account and they will write to you with the details of the fine you have to pay.

If you are prosecuted and plead guilty (or are found guilty by the court) then you will have to pay:

- A fine based on your income (normally discounted by a third if you plead guilty at the earliest opportunity)
- A surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
- A contribution towards TfL's costs
- Compensation for the fares avoided

If you are found guilty then this is a criminal conviction. If you are prosecuted under the TfL Bylaws (which is what normally happens) then the conviction isn't normally recorded on the Police National Computer and won't normally appear on Basic DBS checks although we always advise people to be honest when asked if they have a conviction.

Here's a link to TfL's Revenue Enforcement & Prosecutions Policy which you might find worth reading:

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf

 

[SuspectUsual]

If you are prosecuted under the TfL Bylaws (which is what normally happens) then the conviction isn't normally recorded on the Police National Computer and won't normally appear on Basic DBS checks although we always advise people to be honest when asked if they have a conviction.

And also we normally advise you to check your contract of employment (if appropriate) as it may have a clause requiring you to disclose any conviction. Many people more experienced than me have said that not disclosing when required to, and then being found out, can have far worse consequences than simply letting your employer know if that's what they expect

 

[nate44]

And also we normally advise you to check your contract of employment (if appropriate) as it may have a clause requiring you to disclose any conviction. Many people more experienced than me have said that not disclosing when required to, and then being found out, can have far worse consequences than simply letting your employer know if that's what they expect

will travel to America through esta be impacted by this?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

will travel to America through esta be impacted by this?

This is rather a grey area as how the Americans describe crimes in their laws is different from how the UK does. But realistically I would expect that even if you have to go to the embassy for a visa you will be admitted to the USA - and since you are London based, getting to the embassy shouldn't be too difficult.

 

[nate44]

This is rather a grey area as how the Americans describe crimes in their laws is different from how the UK does. But realistically I would expect that even if you have to go to the embassy for a visa you will be admitted to the USA - and since you are London based, getting to the embassy shouldn't be too difficult.

I would assume they are more stricter than the UK

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Are they most likely to charge me under bylaws?

 

[furlong]

First off, we should just check that you are indeed older than 18? (Some answers may be different if you are younger)

 

[nate44]

First off, we should just check that you are indeed older than 18? (Some answers may be different if you are younger)

I am 24

 

[furlong]

I am 24

So all you've really got left to rely on is remorse.

If you co-operate with them, TfL normally prosecutes you only for a single byelaw offence when they caught you rather than something more serious like fraud (which they could do if they chose to - presenting someone else's pass as if it was your own). If the Oyster Card records show a pattern of similar journeys, then they invite you to attend court in person and admit to making those journeys too - they send you a list of them where you can indicate which ones you did actually make. The court orders you to pay all the fares that should have been paid before, as well as a fine and other costs and charges, but leaves you with just one low-grade criminal conviction.

Some people pay for solicitors to try to persuade TfL not to prosecute. This is expensive but sometimes it is successful. Other times it isn't and just leaves you with a much larger total bill.

 

[nate44]

So all you've really got left to rely on is remorse.

If you co-operate with them, TfL normally prosecutes you only for a single byelaw offence when they caught you rather than something more serious like fraud (which they could do if they chose to - presenting someone else's pass as if it was your own). If the Oyster Card records show a pattern of similar journeys, then they invite you to attend court in person and admit to making those journeys too - they send you a list of them where you can indicate which ones you did actually make. The court orders you to pay all the fares that should have been paid before, as well as a fine and other costs and charges, but leaves you with just one low-grade criminal conviction.

Some people pay for solicitors to try to persuade TfL not to prosecute. This is expensive but sometimes it is successful. Other times it isn't and just leaves you with a much larger total bill.

Thank you very much. This has made me feel a little bit easier because I checked and apparently bylaws don’t show up on DBS’ and PNC’s. I am still deterred from trying this again.

 

[Spaceship323]

Although a bylaw conviction won't normally show up on a DBS check you still need to see whether your employment contract requires you to tell your employer about any convictions. Remember that non disclosure can be more serious than the actual offence.

 

[nate44]

I know a lot of people say TFL do not normally settle but would it be worth while to mention the possibility of settling outside of court in my SJPN

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I know a lot of people say TFL do not normally settle but would it be worth while to mention the possibility of settling outside of court in my SJPN

I don't think that would work in terms of the mechanics: if you settle 'out of court' then that's a private arrangement between you and TfL. But the SJPN paperwork goes back to the court, and they're not interested in what happens out of court.

To allow time for an out of court settlement, you would need to play the court process for time, which would mean pleading 'not guilty': that would provide time in that the court would then have to arrange a trial date which you would be expected to attend unless you had managed to get TfL to agree to settle out of court before the trial date. But there's a downside to this: as you've noticed, TfL do not normally settle out of court. If they don't agree to settle then you will have to go to trial - and because you won't have pleaded guilty at the earliest point that you could, you won't get the full discount on the fine.

So asking for an out of court settlement might well make things take longer, and might well cost you more - and you would still end up with a criminal record.

I know you've asked people to not berate you as you know what you did was wrong, but part of doing something wrong is accepting the punishment for getting caught. Unless TfL act very differently from how we expect, you now need to accept the punishment for fare dodging.

 

[nate44]

I have received an update. Is that normal?

 

[Pushpit]

Yes, it's normal, it's an elaborate way of saying they have received your comments and that they are considering their next steps. I wouldn't read anything more into it.

 

[nate44]

Hello Guys

Update.

I’ve been served with the SJPN

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Hello Guys

Update.

I’ve been served with the SJPN

If I were to plead guilty would it show on my criminal record or police computers?

 

[notmyrealname]

Hi.

Could you show us a redacted version of the form please? It's always useful to see.

Other people will tell you about the criminal record question but you could also look at a site that's often mentioned here, Unlock, who have helpful information.

 

[Pushpit]

If I were to plead guilty would it show on my criminal record or police computers?

You would have a criminal record, which would be regarded as "spent" after a year. In most situations you won't then need to declare it after a year. But for sensitive roles then maybe you will have to declare convictions even though it is spent. So healthcare, education, finance, law related job applications. It won't go on the Police National Computer, as a byelaw offence, but that's not particularly indicative, since convictions are a public record anyway. Moreover if someone has a legitimate reason to ask you, then failure to be honest will get you into another mess, greater than this one.