Stagecoach South & South East

[Class450/4DES]

A lot of Tridents running around Hampshire and Surrey over the last few days (including the 1 in Aldershot). It almost feels like a mini running event around here. Meanwhile, both Aldershot, Winchester and Basingstoke depot's have a considerable number waiting for entry into traffic - I note though, as per usual, the nicer new MMCs have all migrated to Chichester.

Yeah, I have noticed as well!

 

[alex397]

Another round of cuts coming in January at South East.

Route 3 will be withdrawn, leaving just the hourly X3 (Maidstone-Canterbury) on the Faversham-Canterbury corridor. The X3 will be diverted to serve the villages currently served by the 3. There will still peak extra peak journeys though. The passengers from the villages won’t notice much difference (apart from some slightly longer journeys with extra villages being served), but this makes the service less attractive. There is an hourly train service between Faversham and Canterbury, but this is only useful if the start/end points are fairly near the stations, whereas the bus serves more areas.

Route 5 (Canterbury-Seasalter) will have its last two Mon-Fri journeys removed, meaning the last bus from Canterbury will be 5.45pm. Again, making the service less attractive and just for people who don’t have much choice. The last two journeys arn’t exactly busy, but they’ve often carried a good handful whenever I’ve seen or travelled on these journeys. Probably not commercially viable, but still useful.

Canterbury local route 25 will no longer operate after 8.20pm, but a positive is that 22 to London Road Estate will have an increase on Sundays from hourly to half-hourly.


https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promo...ces-in-the-canterbury-and-the-north-kent-area

Changes to bus services in the Canterbury, Herne Bay, Whitstable, Faversham, Sittingbourne and Maidstone areas​

From Sunday 12th January, we’re making changes to some local bus services in and around Canterbury and the north Kent area. Most of the changes will involve retiming bus journeys to help improve reliability and timekeeping. There will be more extensive changes to the 3/X3 service linking Canterbury and Faversham.
You can find more detail below.


Routes 3/3A/X3
Unfortunately, passenger numbers between Faversham and Canterbury are not currently high enough to be able to sustain the half hourly daytime frequency on this corridor. Therefore, route 3 buses (between Faversham and Canterbury) will no longer run during off-peak times. There will be no change to the number of peak- or school-time buses.

• The X3 will continue to provide an hourly service, with all journeys re-routed to serve Dunkirk and Boughton in addition to Upper and Lower Harbledown. This will give Dunkirk and Boughton a direct link to Sittingbourne and Maidstone for the first time.
• Bus times have been adjusted to take into account the opening of the new M2 junction 5 improvements at Stockbury.

View the new 3/X3 timetable here.


Route 5
There will be some minor changes affecting school-time journeys and evening buses.

• The 15:10 bus from Barton Court School will be renumbered 915 to match the morning service.
• The 15:50 bus from Simon Langton Boys School will be renumbered 914 to match the morning service.
• We regret that the 18:25 and 19:10 buses from Canterbury to Seasalter will no longer run due to low useage. For the same reason, the Seasalter to Millstrood Road short bus journeys at 18:36, 18:51, 19:14, 19:25, and 20:51 will also no longer run.

View the new route 5 timetable here.

Route 22
We’re doubling the frequency of route 22 buses on Sundays and Bank Holidays! Buses will run every 30 minutes instead of hourly.

• The 08:37 schoolday bus journey will no longer run. Customers that use this bus can use the 953 or the earlier route 22 bus at 08:27.
• On Sundays and Bank Holidays the frequency of buses will increase to every 30 minutes.

View the new route 22 timetable here.

Route 23
Sunday bus times will be adjusted.
View the new route 23 timetable here.

Route 25
The daytime service will remain unchanged, however buses will no longer operate after 8.20pm in the evenings.
View the new route 25 timetable here.

Route 36
There will be some changes to bus times to help improve reliability.
View the new route 36 timetable here.

Routes 600/601
There will be a new timetable to help improve journey times and reliability.
View the new route 600/601 timetable here.

Route 602/603
All route 602 buses will serve via Altira Retail Park. In response to local feedback, some 603 schoolday only journeys between Canterbury and Herne Bay will operate everyday. There will also be some minor changes to school-time buses.
View the new route 602/603 timetable here.

Schoolday route 908
Due to low useage, the afternoon journey will no longer operate. You can instead catch the 955 bus to Canterbury city centre then a 600/601/602/603 service to Herne, Broomfield or Hillborough.

Schoolday route 955
The afternoon bus will start from St Anselm’s School layby at 1540.

 

[fgwrich]

Just came across this last year from Steven Knight Media - did South manage gain any funding from Zebra round two?

 

[LUYMun]

Not sure if Zebra related but Aldershot depot has been promised about seven ADL EV400s for the route 20 funded by Hampshire CC, expecting to enter service in 2026.

In other news, Aldershot’s new Solo SR 48203 has entered service today on local route 15 (Tices Meadow - North Town).

 

[TEW]

Not sure if Zebra related but Aldershot depot has been promised about seven ADL EV400s for the route 20 funded by Hampshire CC, expecting to enter service in 2026.

In other news, Aldershot’s new Solo SR 48203 has entered service today on local route 15 (Tices Meadow - North Town).

42802 is in service too on the same route. Neither are tracking on Bus Times yet.

 

[Man of Kent]

Just came across this last year from Steven Knight Media - did South manage gain any funding from Zebra round two?

Of those shown, only the Liverpool City Region bid was successful.

 

[Class450/4DES]

Just came across this last year from Steven Knight Media - did South manage gain any funding from Zebra round two?

By the looks of it, no. Also the Hoverbus is now a First route so its out of date.

Not sure if Zebra related but Aldershot depot has been promised about seven ADL EV400s for the route 20 funded by Hampshire CC, expecting to enter service in 2026.

I did see this though.⬆️ Although I am not a fan of electric buses (aside from trolleys), it will be interesting to see the branding on them if they have it.

 

[fgwrich]

Not sure if Zebra related but Aldershot depot has been promised about seven ADL EV400s for the route 20 funded by Hampshire CC, expecting to enter service in 2026.

In other news, Aldershot’s new Solo SR 48203 has entered service today on local route 15 (Tices Meadow - North Town).

Surprising that it’s the 20 getting the new vehicles and not the 1 - traditionally a route which has always received the upgrades first, not least since becoming a Gold route.

Of those shown, only the Liverpool City Region bid was successful.

Cheers, disappointingly I thought as much. Whilst I was surprised Stagecoach put Basingstoke down for new vehicles under Zebra 2, having received around 30 E200 MMCs in 2019, we’ve since lost a number of those round here.

By the looks of it, no. Also the Hoverbus is now a First route so its out of date.

I did see this though.⬆️ Although I am not a fan of electric buses (aside from trolleys), it will be interesting to see the branding on them if they have it.

That’s why I said last year It interesting though that whilst the Portsmouth fleet is relatively new, First lead the way in Portsmouth with Electric vehicles.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Surprising that it’s the 20 getting the new vehicles and not the 1 - traditionally a route which has always received the upgrades first, not least since becoming a Gold route.

Another rumour doing the rounds is that Aldershot's expected allocation is 22 Yutong deckers. The 1's current 12 min frequency requires eleven vehicles and the 20's current 20 min frequency requires six vehicles, so a combined off-peak total of 17/22 vehicles. There is talk of the 20 having its quarter-hourly frequency restored though, which would require eight vehicles, so a combined off-peak total of 19/22. Sadly I can't provide any hard evidence though, so it has to be labelled 'rumour' until the future shows us if there's any substance to any of it!

 

[LUYMun]

It appears that one of Stagecoach South East's recently-cascaded Manchester 'Tridentviros' have caught fire after working an 80A bus this morning at Eastry, this being 19413.

 

[alex397]

It appears that one of Stagecoach South East's recently-cascaded Manchester 'Tridentviros' have caught fire working an 80A bus this morning at Eastry, this being 19413.

It should be noted that this was not in service, it was heading back to the depot after working the 80A. It is believed the driver is ok.

This seems to have been 19413’s second day in service at South East.

 

[Trainguy34]

It should be noted that this was not in service, it was heading back to the depot after working the 80A. It is believed the driver is ok.

This seems to have been 19413’s second day in service at South East.

According to photos on Flickr, it was at least it's 3rd day

 

[fgwrich]

It appears that one of Stagecoach South East's recently-cascaded Manchester 'Tridentviros' have caught fire after working an 80A bus this morning at Eastry, this being 19413.

From what I’ve been reading elsewhere, this cascade doesn’t appear to have been the successful move that Stagecoach had hoped, with a number of displaced Tridentviro’s falling apart or failing in service already. But then again, if you’re replacing tired 06 plate Tridents with equally tired 08 plate Enviro’s it’s hardly surprising.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

if you’re replacing tired 06 plate Tridents with equally tired 08 plate Enviro’s it’s hardly surprising.

More pertinently, if you're winding down an operation and there's a lot going on, might also have an impact.

 

[alex397]

I had a look to see how many passengers were on the last journey of the day on South East’s route 5, the 19.15 from Canterbury which will be cut after today. Just 5 people on board as it left the outskirts of Canterbury. I was hoping to see more - unfortunately I haven’t noted numbers on this journey in the past so can’t really compare it, though I do wonder if today’s cold weather may have impacted numbers. So, probably far from commercially viable. It would be interesting to know what those 5 people will do next week, and if it may stop them using the service altogether.
I did not get to see how many were on the 18.25, which will also be cut, leaving the 17.45 as the last bus of the day.
The last journey on Saturdays will remain at 18.20.

 

[Aaron Ashton]

Just a question, how reliable are the WA59 E300s that have the Cummins refits?

 

[baza585]

From what I’ve been reading elsewhere, this cascade doesn’t appear to have been the successful move that Stagecoach had hoped, with a number of displaced Tridentviro’s falling apart or failing in service already. But then again, if you’re replacing tired 06 plate Tridents with equally tired 08 plate Enviro’s it’s hardly surprising.

Agreed. The surviving Tridents are the better examples in the fleet; the dogs have long since been disposed of.

Based on the history of the 190xx cascades from Manchester, albeit some years ago, I have doubts about whether all of the recent cascades will prove better than the existing 18xxx Tridents.

I recognize the need to get buses out of Manchester for practical reasons but I'm not sure South will have been well served if it disposed of all its existing Tridents just yet.

 

[Surreyman]

Agreed. The surviving Tridents are the better examples in the fleet; the dogs have long since been disposed of.

Based on the history of the 190xx cascades from Manchester, albeit some years ago, I have doubts about whether all of the recent cascades will prove better than the existing 18xxx Tridents.

I recognize the need to get buses out of Manchester for practical reasons but I'm not sure South will have been well served if it disposed of all its existing Tridents just yet.

Presumably one plus is that the ex Manchester E 400s have all been upgraded to Euro 6 exhaust standards, so on paper at least, they can claim an improvement to emissions in Kent, Surrey, East & West Sussex and Hampshire.
The Tridents and older E400s are only Euro 3 (I think a few of Portsmouth older E400s were upgraded).

 

[baza585]

Presumably one plus is that the ex Manchester E 400s have all been upgraded to Euro 6 exhaust standards, so on paper at least, they can claim an improvement to emissions in Kent, Surrey, East & West Sussex and Hampshire.
The Tridents and older E400s are only Euro 3 (I think a few of Portsmouth older E400s were upgraded).

Very true. As far as I know only Portsmouth has a Clean Air Zone in the South operating area. Farlington is almost entirely Euro 6 but as Chichester no longer operate to Pompey, their fleet doesn't need to be Euro 6.

As you say, a benefit on paper. What those 08 plate E400 actually chuck out of the exhaust pipe we will never know.....

 

[TrainBoy98]

Very true. As far as I know only Portsmouth has a Clean Air Zone in the South operating area.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jan 2025 ==

I think Brighton too? But again, Chi don't operate to Brighton either

 

[inklin]

I wonder what is going on with the Audio/Visual next stop announcements on South East, they have become increasingly unreliable to the point that I would say they are non functional on 95% of the vehicles that support it. Seeing as it is a regulatory requirement for post 2019 vehicles now, then how come it is being brushed over currently?

I have been on various 2024 Solo SR's and 2020/23 E400 MMC's and as of late it is either turned off entirely on most of them, or, if it is somewhat functioning, then one of either Display or Audio Announcements, but not both.

Often if the display is working it will display route number but not the next stop and instead just has a generic message to refer to the timetables on the website, though it worked mostly fine when the rules changed back in October.

 

[alex397]

I wonder what is going on with the Audio/Visual next stop announcements on South East, they have become increasingly unreliable to the point that I would say they are non functional on 95% of the vehicles that support it. Seeing as it is a regulatory requirement for post 2019 vehicles now, then how come it is being brushed over currently?

I have been on various 2024 Solo SR's and 2020/23 E400 MMC's and as of late it is either turned off entirely on most of them, or, if it is somewhat functioning, then one of either Display or Audio Announcements, but not both.

Often if the display is working it will display route number but not the next stop and instead just has a generic message to refer to the timetables on the website, though it worked mostly fine when the rules changed back in October.

Hopefully as buses with audio/visual become more commonplace in the fleet, there will be more effort to maintain and fix the issues. Though the audio/visual on the Thanet Loop service which has been active for years continues to be hit and miss on whether it will work properly or not.
I share your observations on the new vehicles at South East being hit and miss, including the new Solos and E400s. It would be interesting to know what the issues are - next stop audio/visual on vehicles in places like Belgium, Germany, Poland etc tend to be very reliable (and tend to be a full screen rather than outdated LED) and work properly for the whole journey. Though as those countries have had these systems for longer, maybe they have managed to iron out most issues by now. Hopefully the same occurs in the UK.

On another topic, I travelled on the Uni1 service in Canterbury today. Interestingly, the vast majority of students were buying single tickets rather than using a Unirider season ticket. Perhaps most of the Sunday users are those who only travel on the weekends to pop into Canterbury city centre, rather than regular users. Though it certainly made the journey feel long !

On the Invicta bus newsgroup, a photographer has stated that the Scania OmniCity types used in passenger service (so, not the trainers) are to be withdrawn imminently. I like these vehicles, and they add variety to the ever-homogenous fleet, so will be a shame to see these go if this is true. These are mostly used on the Canterbury Uni services, though regularly work other routes.

 

[Class 466]

On the Invicta bus newsgroup, a photographer has stated that the Scania OmniCity types used in passenger service (so, not the trainers) are to be withdrawn imminently. I like these vehicles, and they add variety to the ever-homogenous fleet, so will be a shame to see these go if this is true. These are mostly used on the Canterbury Uni services, though regularly work other routes.

What's replacing them?

 

[alex397]

What's replacing them?

I can only speculate really, but presumably the influx of ex-Manchester vehicles would replace them, either directly or indirectly.

 

[SeveerYeliab]

I can only speculate really, but presumably the influx of ex-Manchester vehicles would replace them, either directly or indirectly.

Yes , the YN67 Scania 400mmcs are moving from Eastbourne/ Hastings to Herne Bay - replaced with 20 plate 400mmcs.

 

[SeveerYeliab]

More changes are coming from 3rd March at Stagecoach South East, this time for Ashford area.

Judging by notices and proceedings, the lettered town routes A, B,C,D will be renumbered to 501, 502 etc. and route 10X will be renumbered 510.

Routes 2,2A,10 and 14 have been completely de registered. However, it has been confirmed by a local driver that KCC have tendered a replacement for the 10 (which will be interesting to see the provision as the PVR is currently 4, which is a lot higher than most KCC supported routes ). I imagine route 2A will be saved likewise, however the future of routes 2 and 14 are definitely under threat.

 

[RDP]

Routes D and G have also been deregistered. There also appear to be some changes affecting the Dover/Folkestone/Romney Marsh area (routes 63 and 102-5) although these may be of a minor nature but as no details have yet been published we must wait and see.

 

[alex397]

I thought bus operators liked to avoid having three-digit numbers for routes? instead preferring easier-to-remember single/double digit numbers or, in Ashford’s case, letters.
East Kent of course gradually renumbered the NBC era route numbers, for example 603 to 3, 558 to 18 etc. Seems counter-productive to me to go back on that, if this is indeed the case.

It is sad to see the potential for more route cuts again, as car usage and traffic seems to be continually rising in east Kent.

 

[aswilliamsuk]

Routes D and G have also been deregistered. There also appear to be some changes affecting the Dover/Folkestone/Romney Marsh area (routes 63 and 102-5) although these may be of a minor nature but as no details have yet been published we must wait and see.

I cannot imagine the likely changes to the 10 going down well in Hythe - particularly as many hospital appointments from here are at the William Harvey in Ashford (which the 10 of course serves).

The 102-105 group appear to be somewhat more reliable since the changes - and loadings have been strong on the 102/103 by observation, particularly. I'd be very surprised indeed if there were significant changes to the routes again! (A 2300 departure from Folkestone towards Hythe would be very welcome to be reinstated, mind).

 

[Man of Kent]

Routes D and G have also been deregistered. There also appear to be some changes affecting the Dover/Folkestone/Romney Marsh area (routes 63 and 102-5) although these may be of a minor nature but as no details have yet been published we must wait and see.

The D survives as part of the (commercial) 501. The G is being tendered.

However, it has been confirmed by a local driver that KCC have tendered a replacement for the 10 (which will be interesting to see the provision as the PVR is currently 4, which is a lot higher than most KCC supported routes ). I imagine route 2A will be saved likewise, however the future of routes 2 and 14 are definitely under threat.

All being tendered as per the current timetables (which is not to say that they will be awarded as such).