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No services between Sheffield and Nottingham

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Killingworth

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I understand that Platform 1 is the 'new' Westbound platform. There is no 'wrong direction' signalled move for this and no stop signal at the Sheffield end of the platform. I'm not even sure if there is enough overlap distance to the now-staggered Dore Station Junction/(Shown as Foxlow Junction on some modern plans). With Dore South Curve remaining in use for diverted EMR services and freight in both directions it would be a far-from-ideal layout to set up temporary hand signalling.
Quite!

A missed bi-directional option that was ruled out before the public inquiry in 2016. One of the many hundreds of pages of evidence included a diagram that left enough in to suggest it was considered. If it had been kept in at least two 3 hour line blocks and consequent knock on effects could have been significantly reduced. That's in 9 months and there have been shorter blocks where it could have been useful as well as overtaking options.

When further blockades are needed for remodelling around Sheffield and electrification this may also be a useful option.

(Some might suggest activating the passive provision to reinstate MML platforms at Dore, although only northbound to allow reversal to Chesterfield. But that's a subject for a highly speculative thread.)

With so many threads wanting to reopen long closed lines and building new stations at vast expense it's a shame these more modest interventions to improve train user experience are not made.
 
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But they would still have to run a bus to serve Dronfield.
True but it would only be Sheffield to Chesterfield Bus.

I understand that Platform 1 is the 'new' Westbound platform. There is no 'wrong direction' signalled move for this and no stop signal at the Sheffield end of the platform. I'm not even sure if there is enough overlap distance to the now-staggered Dore Station Junction/(Shown as Foxlow Junction on some modern plans). With Dore South Curve remaining in use for diverted EMR services and freight in both directions it would be a far-from-ideal layout to set up temporary hand signalling.
Could Dore in its new form support a Rail Replacement Bus to train Interchange Operation though? Some stations are considered highly unsuitable for such operations?

The other thing to point out is how close is the worksite to Dore Station itself? It may be too close to use the station anyway.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Why is TPE only running Manchester-Sheffield via Huddersfield and Wakefield every 2 hours is it down to available paths or is it down to availability how many people sign the route?
Probably a mix of both. Note TPE are also suspended between Sheffield and Doncaster.

A curiosity is that, according to the National Rail site, EMR trains between Derby and Sheffield will call at Chesterfield but Cross Country ones won't, although they will all presumably be using the same "Old Road" route. Any reason for this?

@norbitonflyer See reply from @43055 posted below - post #14 above as well
Yes. More specifically the northbound Cross Country which is normally due to leave Derby at xx45 is moved forwards to leave around xx39 and then picks up its normal times from Sheffield. The Matlock service then uses the normal Cross Country path at xx46 from Derby.
 
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43055

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Why does any of that prevent them callinmg at Chesterfield, which they will be passing through anyway?
My guess is due to having to pick up the same path than normal from Sheffield/Derby. Northbound they are departing Derby 6 mins earlier but getting to Sheffield about the same time to then about 4 or 5 mins head north again on it's normal path. Southbound it is Birmingham where the departures align back to normal. In short EMR's services have an extra 10 mins added to the journey time which Cross Country don't really have.
 

Twingo37175

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Why does any of that prevent them callinmg at Chesterfield, which they will be passing through anyway?
When you look on real time trains it looks like the cross country ones are passing on the old road side (3 and no-platform) as against 1 and 2 for EMR. I assume this means the EMR are joining the Derby line North of the station as against Cross Country joining south of the station (clay cross junction).
 

norbitonflyer

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When you look on real time trains it looks like the cross country ones are passing on the old road side (3 and no-platform) as against 1 and 2 for EMR. I assume this means the EMR are joining the Derby line North of the station as against Cross Country joining south of the station (clay cross junction).
Looking at OTT, it would seem that of the four junctions, (from south to north Clay Cross, Chesterfield South, Chesterfield North and Tapton), only Chesterfield South allows parallel moves and then only between the Nottingham direction and the Sheffield direction (via the station). Tapton is a ladder in the same direction, whilst Clay Cross and Chesterfield North are ladders giving access between the "Old Road" and Derby. Trains to/from the Old Road calling at Chesterfield have to use Chesterfeld North.
 

Killingworth

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It's not going well today. Service along the Hope Valley has been disrupted due to track circuit failure, flooding and the adverse weather at various points along the long route. The bus substitute service from Sheffield to Grindleford was suspended although may now be running.

Yesterday it should be recorded that Northern ran their full emergency timetable, albeit only 2 in 3 of their normal trains.
 

Spaceship323

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Severe flooding south of Leicester means the St.Pancras to Sheffield trains via the diversion are all cancelled at the moment, Hopefully they might be running tomorrow?
 

RailWonderer

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Is there a reason Northern and TPE can't run Manchester - Chesterfield? With a huge frequency reduction, even if some passengers go for rail replacement options you still have an hourly service of 2 and 3 car 158s and 170s which will probably be full and standing all the way. I'm not looking forward to my trip to Edale this week (well Edale itself I am but not the EMR portion of the trip).
 

Mat17

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Is there a reason Northern and TPE can't run Manchester - Chesterfield? With a huge frequency reduction, even if some passengers go for rail replacement options you still have an hourly service of 2 and 3 car 158s and 170s which will probably be full and standing all the way. I'm not looking forward to my trip to Edale this week (well Edale itself I am but not the EMR portion of the trip).
Manchester to Chesterfield via Sheffield and the Old Road will be pathing issues.

Via Dore Curve, neither crews sign it.
 

bunnahabhain

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Is there a reason Northern and TPE can't run Manchester - Chesterfield? With a huge frequency reduction, even if some passengers go for rail replacement options you still have an hourly service of 2 and 3 car 158s and 170s which will probably be full and standing all the way. I'm not looking forward to my trip to Edale this week (well Edale itself I am but not the EMR portion of the trip).
Their crew don't have route knowledge that way and there aren't enough paths in and out of Sheffield via Beighton to accomodate them. Hence Northern aren't running Sheffield to Nottingham.
 

norbitonflyer

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Severe flooding south of Leicester means the St.Pancras to Sheffield trains via the diversion are all cancelled at the moment, Hopefully they might be running tomorrow?
According to EMR's website the flooding is in the Long Eaton area, preventing anything running there and Derby. It seems to also be preventing London-Sheffield trains going via the Erewash valley route.
 

RailWonderer

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Their crew don't have route knowledge that way and there aren't enough paths in and out of Sheffield via Beighton to accomodate them. Hence Northern aren't running Sheffield to Nottingham.
I suppose engineering works around there is quite rare otherwise Northern or TPE would sign it for diversions like other parts only used during diversionary engineering. If I remember right, TPE signs to Castleford and does one train a day there ECS or in passenger service to keep route knowledge for engineering, they do the Calder Valley as well for diversions, or I could be completely wrong.
 

LowLevel

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I suppose engineering works around there is quite rare otherwise Northern or TPE would sign it for diversions like other parts only used during diversionary engineering. If I remember right, TPE signs to Castleford and does one train a day there ECS or in passenger service to keep route knowledge for engineering, they do the Calder Valley as well for diversions, or I could be completely wrong.
Sheffield crews at Northern do sign via Beighton, there just isn't the capacity for their not very efficient 195s to warrant taking up the paths - Nunnery is very busy!
 

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TPE signs to Castleford and does one train a day there ECS or in passenger service to keep route knowledge for engineering, they do the Calder Valley as well for diversions, or I could be completely wrong.
TPE run a near hourly service via Castleford these days
 

Killingworth

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It seems that if travellers try to book between Sheffield and Manchester they'll find their quickest journeys show as hourly on EMR via a change at Grindleford. Possibly not too good an idea? It doesn't point out the 600m steep (possibly icy) walk between the train and the main road near the Maynard Arms at Grindleford, or the minimal facilities for shelter on the station or by the road. It's not a good situation for anyone with heavy luggage or disability.

Second quickest is 2 hourly on the direct TPE bus substitute.

The alternating 2 hourly direct TPE train via Wakefield and Swinton takes longer and may not even appear in a search.

Feedback suggests there may be a lady stationed on the main road at Grindleford to direct people down to the station. There are no prominent notices (or any notices?) on the station directing people up to the main road, let alone warning how far it is. Maybe the lady goes down when a train is due but the report I had was that people were waiting by the station until regular station users told them they needed to go up to the road.

Apparently TPE's coach is good and probably the best option.
 
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bunnahabhain

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It seems that if travellers try to book between Sheffield and Manchester they'll find their quickest journeys show as hourly on EMR via a change at Grindleford. Possibly not too good an idea? It doesn't point out the 600m steep (possibly icy) walk between the train and the main road near the Maynard Arms at Grindleford, or the minimal facilities for shelter on the station or by the road. It's not a good situation for anyone with heavy luggage or disability.

Second quickest is 2 hourly on the direct TPE bus substitute.

The alternating 2 hourly direct TPE train via Wakefield and Swinton takes longer and may not even appear in a search.

Feedback suggests there may be a lady stationed on the main road at Grindleford to direct people down to the station. There are no prominent notices (or any notices?) on the station directing people up to the main road, let alone warning how far it is. Maybe the lady goes down when a train is due but the report I had was that people were waiting by the station until regular station users people told them they needed to go up to the road.

Apparently TPE's coach is good and probably the best option.
This is what happens when people believe apps and don't try to find alternative sources of information. I'd never direct anybody to do that.
 

ChrisC

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It seems that if travellers try to book between Sheffield and Manchester they'll find their quickest journeys show as hourly on EMR via a change at Grindleford. Possibly not too good an idea? It doesn't point out the 600m steep (possibly icy) walk between the train and the main road near the Maynard Arms at Grindleford, or the minimal facilities for shelter on the station or by the road. It's not a good situation for anyone with heavy luggage or disability.

Second quickest is 2 hourly on the direct TPE bus substitute.

The alternating 2 hourly direct TPE train via Wakefield and Swinton takes longer and may not even appear in a search.

Feedback suggests there may be a lady stationed on the main road at Grindleford to direct people down to the station. There are no prominent notices (or any notices?) on the station directing people up to the main road, let alone warning how far it is. Maybe the lady goes down when a train is due but the report I had was that people were waiting by the station until regular station users told them they needed to go up to the road.

Apparently TPE's coach is good and probably the best option.
Access to Grindleford Station, especially in these icy conditions is not good, but at least the road down to the station is better surfaced and lit than it was in the past.

Around 35 years ago, in the early days of the hourly Liverpool-Norwich service, when they were Class 156 operated, I was travelling between Manchester and Alfreton on a very wet Saturday evening in early November. There were engineering works between Hathersage and Grindleford and we were due to board a replacement bus between those two stations. The train was very heavily loaded and I remember that there were a number of families returning to Sheffield, complete with pushchairs etc, from a day out in Blackpool as it was the last weekend of the illuminations. It had become obvious to the guard that the number of passengers on the train far exceeded the capacity of the replacement bus and so the train stopped at Edale where this was reported at the signal box.

On arrival at Hathersage, by then in pouring rain, the double decker bus was filled to capacity and I can remember standing with many others on the very crowded lower deck. On arrival at Grindleford, I remember everyone having to make their way down a very dark heavily potholed track to the station. There was just one member of staff who had a torch to help people with children and pushchairs to the waiting train. I often wondered how that would work today with health and safety to consider.
 

YorkshireBear

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I note the direct Huddersfield Wakefield service is withdrawn and replaced by buses to allow for the Sheffield to Manchester services yet I cannot for the life of me see it mentioned anywhere.

Poor show really.
 

ricoblade

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Affected me today as I was looking to travel to Chesterfield. Looed like one an hour via the Old Road from Sheffield or a replacement bus taking over an hour (!), then looking at service buses, they still take over an hour...how?
 

duffield

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Affected me today as I was looking to travel to Chesterfield. Looed like one an hour via the Old Road from Sheffield or a replacement bus taking over an hour (!), then looking at service buses, they still take over an hour...how?
The EMR services take about 20-25 minutes from Sheffield to Chesterfield via the old road. Don't know where you got an hour from.

There's only one per hour and they were disrupted today with some cancellations, but that's another matter...

Edit: I misread the post quoted above as "over an hour via the old road" when it actually reads "one an hour via the old road", which of course is correct.

I think my head's going, I read that post three times and each time misread it in exactly the same way. o_O
 
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Dr Hoo

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There is a significant limit to the number of possible diversions via the Old Road, bearing in mind the need to inter work with freight and Sheffield-Retford services; plus congestion at the north end of Sheffield station generally.
 

johnnychips

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I think @ricoblade questioned why the rail replacement bus was so slow compared with the service bus. The X17 takes about 40 minutes, but it runs via Dronfield by-pass, whereas I assume the replacement bus has to serve the station.
 

Killingworth

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I think @ricoblade questioned why the rail replacement bus was so slow compared with the service bus. The X17 takes about 40 minutes, but it runs via Dronfield by-pass, whereas I assume the replacement bus has to serve the station.
It does. Some of the Manchester and Nottingham links from Sheffield are/were shown via Dronfield
 

ALEMASTER

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I think @ricoblade questioned why the rail replacement bus was so slow compared with the service bus. The X17 takes about 40 minutes, but it runs via Dronfield by-pass, whereas I assume the replacement bus has to serve the station.
The X17 isn't that fast at peak times although it is a decent bus!

The rail replacement bus was indeed designed to serve Dronfield station rather than run fast and direct - there were trains via the old road for those passengers - until EMR cancelled some of their London services due to flooding further south
 

Discuss223

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I suppose engineering works around there is quite rare otherwise Northern or TPE would sign it for diversions like other parts only used during diversionary engineering. If I remember right, TPE signs to Castleford and does one train a day there ECS or in passenger service to keep route knowledge for engineering, they do the Calder Valley as well for diversions, or I could be completely wrong.
TPE now run some services to and from Castleford and direct to York (avoiding Leeds).
 
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