Why does Liverpool Central have despatchers on the platform?

[dannypye9999]

Or any other Central Liverpool station.

These stations have a lot in common with London underground stations which don't have despatchers so why does Liverpool need them? Liverpool Central isn't a busy station when you compare to London Victoria tube station or any other Central London stop and they seem to cope ok without someone on the platform making announcements or despatching trains. Just seems like a waste of resources to me. On the platform at Liverpool today I knew exactly my train as it was arriving. It's destination was perfectly displayed in big orange font with in carriage displays too showing the destination. The calling points scrolling neatly across the display on both the platform and train and there is even a large map on the wall of the platform that faces me showing me where my train calls and where it's headed.

And yet somebody is stood on the platform making manual announcements and despatching the trains something London doesn't have. Have they always had despatchers on the platforms at Liverpool tube stations?

 

[WirralLine]

They don't dispatch the trains, that's entirely down to the guards to commence, they just make announcements and keep people away from the train as it departs. I think this was another of Merseyrails over the top solutions to prevent a reoccurrence of the James Street fatality. I have seen them "act" as dispatchers at Central Northern line platforms though, usually with a 6 or 8 car.

The only times Merseyrail use dispatchers is on busy event days such as the grand national at Aintree.

They're usually busy answering questions in between trains, one at Central in the summer was letting little kids announce the next trains destination as it was pulling in, "West Kirby train"! Which caused a few smiles. My 8 year old was offered but wasn't brave enough!

 

[Travelmonkey]

By law all physically underground stations need 2 staff members (inc Glasgow Subway & Tyne Metro too) on shift and its better to have them where the passenger can engage rather than hiding in a office or huddled at the gateline. Less of a issue now with the 777s but the old stock they would have been more active with passenger assist. Also London Underground does have staff on busy platforms to make announcements, plenty of videos online of the the funny ones. Merseyrail is quite a heavily staffed TOC but if they are helpful it's worth it.

 

[Krokodil]

After a fatality at James Street in 2011 and an incident at Hamilton Square in 2015 inevitably Merseyrail are going to want to avoid a reoccurrence.

 

[Horizon22]

By law all physically underground stations need 2 staff members (inc Glasgow Subway & Tyne Metro too) on shift and its better to have them where the passenger can engage rather than hiding in a office or huddled at the gateline. Less of an issue now with the 777s but the old stock they would have been more active with passenger assist. Also London Underground does have staff on busy platforms to make announcements, plenty of videos online of the the funny ones. Merseyrail is quite a heavily staffed TOC but if they are helpful it's worth it.

I was going to say it’s almost certainly sub-surface fire requirements so they have staff they can help evacuate the station quickly enough in an emergency. Can’t hurt that they also do customer service too and the long shadow of the James Street incident.

 

[gray1404]

What annoys me is when alighting from a 8 car (or 6 car train on the old stock) is when the said staff put up a barrier roughly half way down the platform at Liverpool Central and insist you use a particular escalator up to ground level.

This all sounds very noble until you are prevented getting to the escalator going down to the Wirral line platform.

 

[childwallblues]

What annoys me is when alighting from a 8 car (or 6 car train on the old stock) is when the said staff put up a barrier roughly half way down the platform at Liverpool Central and insist you use a particular escalator up to ground level.

This all sounds very noble until you are prevented getting to the escalator going down to the Wirral line platform.

i I use the underground stations both on the Wirral and Northern Lines on a regular basis. I have a walking stick and often a member of staff will approach me and ask whether I would like to use the lift. They are always polite and willing to help.
Your complaint about Liverpool Central seems unjustified. On the Northern Line platform there are two escalators, one at each end and go go up to the same single exit to the station. Staff are using crowd control for your benefit. Exiting the Wirral Line platform there is only one set of escalators from which you change half way up to a second set up to the station exit.

 

[cool110]

On the Northern Line platform there are two escalators, one at each end and go go up to the same single exit to the station.

There's a third escalator that goes directly down to the Wirral Line platform.

 

[Fokx]

These stations have a lot in common with London underground stations which don't have despatchers so why does Liverpool need them?

Liverpool Central isn't a busy station when you compare to London Victoria tube station or any other Central London stop and they seem to cope ok without someone on the platform making announcements or despatching trains.

Liverpool Central is the busiest station on the network and the Northern line platform tends to become overcrowded due to the position of the escalator and pillars, as well as the stopping position of the trains. The majority of passengers will exit onto either the side wall of the escalators/lift or the foot of the main escalator, which creates conflict of movement between passengers on what is essentially an extremely narrow platform in the area that’s used for 4 car trains.

The Wirral line platform whilst not narrow, can also get quite busy and passengers tend to congregate near the entrance areas (where the 4 car trains stop) unlike London Underground where the length of the train generally fills the platform, so people are less inclined to spread out due to fear of missing their less frequent (than London) service

Just seems like a waste of resources to me. On the platform at Liverpool today I knew exactly my train as it was arriving. It's destination was perfectly displayed in big orange font with in carriage displays too showing the destination. The calling points scrolling neatly across the display on both the platform and train and there is even a large map on the wall of the platform that faces me showing me where my train calls and where it's headed.

The announcements are made because Merseyrail do not use automatic announcements for services unlike the national rail network or London Underground where you might get something like “Piccadilly Line, the next train to Cockfosters will arrive in 2 minutes”.

Have they always had despatchers on the platforms at Liverpool undergound stations?

There has always been a staff presence, but staffed platforms and announcements came into effect after the James Street incident around ten years ago

 

[Djgr]

Liverpool Central isn't a busy station when you compare to London Victoria tube station or any other Central London stop

Really?

 

[Tetchytyke]

These stations have a lot in common with London underground stations which don't have despatchers so why does Liverpool need them?

London Underground stations have platform staff doing exactly the same job the staff at Liverpool Central do.

As for why, Liverpool Central has 13 million people going through it a year.

 

[urbophile]

Liverpool Central isn't a busy station when you compare to London Victoria tube station or any other Central London stop and they seem to cope ok without someone on the platform making announcements or despatching trains.

I haven't checked the passenger figures but Central is surely among the busiest nationwide. Yes many central London stations are busier but they are better designed to cope with crowds. The Northern line platforms were, arguably poorly, adapted from their former use as the Wirral line terminus. There is an emergency exit at the southern end, which could be transformed into a general entry/exit point with additional escalators*, which would have the effect of evening out the crowding on the platform. So would the extension of more trains towards Hunts Cross, or a more frequent service generally, which would mop up many of the waiting passengers.

Another factor compared with London is that, although many tube lines split off into different branches, the core routes through the city centre are longer and most passengers don't need to know the ultimate destination of a train. That is not the case with Merseyrail as most passengers need to know which branch their train is taking. Hence the potential for confused and lost-looking people.

*although the platform is a bit narrow at that point which might be too hazardous.

 

[gray1404]

There's a third escalator that goes directly down to the Wirral Line platform.

Exactly. Thus no need to go upstairs if transfering from the Northern to the Wirral line at Liverpool Central. Which is why it is annoying when this is hindered.

 

[Fokx]

Exactly. Thus no need to go upstairs if transfering from the Northern to the Wirral line at Liverpool Central. Which is why it is annoying when this is hindered.

But if you wait the train to depart and the platform to clear, it’s reopened when it’s safe to do so and you can carry on as normal.

Usually this can be less than a minute if it’s the Ormskirk - Hunts Cross running through

It’s no different to London Underground closing access at the likes of Oxford Circus to prevent platform overcrowding

 

[gray1404]

But if you wait the train to depart and the platform to clear, it’s reopened when it’s safe to do so and you can carry on as normal.

Usually this can be less than a minute if it’s the Ormskirk - Hunts Cross running through

It’s no different to London Underground closing access at the likes of Oxford Circus to prevent platform overcrowding

I tend to get off the arrival from Southport so it can last a bit longer. When the Southport line ran through to Hunts Cross it was quicker at reopening.

Every minute counts sadly when making an unofficial (under 10 minutes) connection onto the Wirral line.

I've also noticed the staff direct me to the lift and insist I use the manned/wider ticket barriers on Merseyrail when I have a small suitcase (the size I can take on the plane as hand carry into the overhead locker) with me despite it being very easy to have it behind me on the escalator.

 

[Spekejunction]

Interesting to read this thread..
In the Post War years I used Central in the rush hour.
At the base of the steps gates were closed just before trains departed stopping the last minute dash..
This of course is not possible when escalators are used..
Sounds like a one way system could fit the bill by constructing a mezzanine over the platform with escalators positioned to take incoming passengers up to this level.

There was a sort of mezzanine over the platform back in the day with a lift..

 

[yorkie]

Or any other Central Liverpool station.

These stations have a lot in common with London underground stations which don't have despatchers so why does Liverpool need them? ...

LU does have staff who perform the same role you observed on Merseyrail, at some stations.

 

[Travelmonkey]

I was going to say it’s almost certainly sub-surface fire requirements so they have staff they can help evacuate the station quickly enough in an emergency. Can’t hurt that they also do customer service too and the long shadow of the James Street incident.

Well that's what LU staff are meant to do, @Blindtraveler treas on another page shows that's not quite always the case,

 

[43066]

Well that's what LU staff are meant to do, @Blindtraveler treas on another page shows that's not quite always the case,

In many cases that’s because LU staff are spread very thinly due to destaffing over the years. Unfortunately that’s where the viewpoint expressed in the OP, that staff are a “waste of resources”, can lead.

It sounds as though the Merseyrail staff being discussed provide a useful service.

 

[gray1404]

I don't think the additional staff at Liverpool Central are required. It looks more like a job creation scheme. It is overstaffing and quite honestly pointless and is not value for money. Furthermore some of us line to travel independently without needless interactions.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It sounds as though the Merseyrail staff being discussed provide a useful service.

I personally find them more likely to cause an obstruction. They may have been needed if DOO had happened, but with "guards" who are basically acting as dispatchers they are not particularly useful in my eyes.

Worth noting that the new lift has made issues worse by blocking even more of the platform. The place needs ripping out and doing again more like St Pancras Low Level, ideally before anything expensive is built on top.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jan 2025 ==

I don't think the additional staff at Liverpool Central are required. It looks more like a job creation scheme. It is overstaffing and quite honestly pointless and is not value for money. Furthermore some of us line to travel independently without needless interactions.

I find Merseyrail grossly overstaffed in general, to be honest. It hasn't always been like that, and as it's a massive subsidy pit (not sure about now but for a long time it was the highest subsidy per passenger mile other than Island Line) it really doesn't sit well with me.

Metrolink of course is the other extreme and so suffers from antisocial behaviour, but there really could be a sensible middle ground to find.

 

[Blackpool boy]

I don't think the additional staff at Liverpool Central are required. It looks more like a job creation scheme. It is overstaffing and quite honestly pointless and is not value for money. Furthermore some of us line to travel independently without needless interactions.

It looks like those who are in charge of the station feel like they do need the extra staff and from reading other posts on here people do find them useful.

And there's nothing wrong with job creation, especially if it gives others

But lets hope that you never need any assistance in the future at liverpool central from these people on the platform

 

[Tetchytyke]

I don't think the additional staff at Liverpool Central are required. It looks more like a job creation scheme. It is overstaffing and quite honestly pointless

A station which has 13,000,000 passengers a year doesn't need platform staff?

Hmm.

 

[43066]

But lets hope that you never need any assistance in the future at liverpool central from these people on the platform

This is a point those wishing away platform staff often ignore, and they may feel different if one day they are needing to use a wheelchair, or are less mobile due to an injury or medical condition. If the staff do go the fares won’t be going down, that’s for sure!

Many of the current assistance issues network wide are due to those remaining staff members being run ragged and spread too thinly. It’s also interesting to note that Merseyrail and London Overground both operate a model employing more staff than most operators, and both score consistently highly in performance and satisfaction surveys.

 

[Blackpool boy]

It’s also interesting to note that Merseyrail and London Overground both operate a model employing more staff than most operators, and both score consistently highly in performance and satisfaction surveys.

No surprises there really is there?

 

[Travelmonkey]

This is a point those wishing away platform staff often ignore, and they may feel different if one day they are needing to use a wheelchair, or are less mobile due to an injury or medical condition. If the staff do go the fares won’t be going down, that’s for sure!

As someone who uses passenger assist Platform staff are always good to see, even if they have to run for the ramp,

 

[Bletchleyite]

Many of the current assistance issues network wide are due to those remaining staff members being run ragged and spread too thinly. It’s also interesting to note that Merseyrail and London Overground both operate a model employing more staff than most operators, and both score consistently highly in performance and satisfaction surveys.

But not on cost of operation. If it could be made less of a money pit, other aspects of the area's public transport might be improved. Or they might just manage to afford to paint some of the station ironwork before it rusts to nothing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jan 2025 ==

This is a point those wishing away platform staff often ignore, and they may feel different if one day they are needing to use a wheelchair, or are less mobile due to an injury or medical condition. If the staff do go the fares won’t be going down, that’s for sure!

The gateline is overstaffed enough that for the rare occasion when level boarding and a guard isn't enough (must be single figures of times a day) they could send someone down.

Many of the current assistance issues network wide are due to those remaining staff members being run ragged and spread too thinly.

Largely because they waste staff time issuing tickets that should be contactless, e-ticket or from TVMs. The whole thing exists in about 1960 at times.

I'm not saying it should be like Metrolink but it is easy to see within 5 minutes of entering the system ways in which a small fortune could be saved without significantly downgrading the fundamental service.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jan 2025 ==

A station which has 13,000,000 passengers a year doesn't need platform staff?

Hmm.

It never had them in the past, and now guards are effectively just on board dispatchers it doesn't need them now either. Dispatch doesn't need three pairs of eyes, two is quite enough. And there is absolutely no need for the London Underground style running commentary.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jan 2025 ==

As someone who uses passenger assist Platform staff are always good to see, even if they have to run for the ramp

No ramp needed on Merseyrail - full level boarding now!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

LU does have staff who perform the same role you observed on Merseyrail, at some stations.

They certainly do during the evening rush hour. But I can't recall ever noticing LU staff performing that role at other times. (Other than that, for the Elizabeth line, round about the time of the final late night trains, I've seen staff on the platform warning people that there will be no more trains)

 

[childwallblues]

I tend to get off the arrival from Southport so it can last a bit longer. When the Southport line ran through to Hunts Cross it was quicker at reopening.

Coming from Southport on a regular basis means that you are familiar with the layout of Central and therefore should ensure that you get into the part of the train that stops in the area that you wish to alight.

 

[158756]

Really?

Latest annual passenger numbers:

Liverpool Central 12.6m
Victoria (LU) 59.6m

There are over 40 tube stations busier than Liverpool Central. The closest to Liverpool Central's usage is Covent Garden, where the platforms can only be accessed by lifts or a staircase with 193 steps.