Introduction of European Entry-Exit Scheme (EES)

[eoff]

It sounds like a good way forward. It was always ambitious to do everything in one go. I am surprised it was very planned that way.



I am aware it's a very different scale and challenge but I wonder how many EU visitors go the UK from 8th April will be considering that? Especially those that are more pro border controls. People will notice they need an ETA to enter the UK but no one travelling the other way needs one. There may not even be a new launch date for ETIAs when the final phase of UK ETA launch finishes.

To me the catch with ETA is that the transit visa exemptions are not the same, So US citizens will need one just to transfer aiirside at LHR.
Perhaps there will be a lot of applications in the departure airport.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Wait, wait. I've missed that: the UK is going to demand the ETA for transit through the UK? That really is quite absurd, especially as ETIAS won't be needed for those in transit.

 

[eoff]

Wait, wait. I've missed that: the UK is going to demand the ETA for transit through the UK? That really is quite absurd, especially as ETIAS won't be needed for those in transit.

The Conservative government defended it in Febrary with...

Are ETAs needed by those transiting through the UK? If so, why?

• Strengthening our border remains one of the Government’s top priorities. The ETA scheme will give us a comprehensive understanding of those travelling to the UK and the ability to prevent the travel of those who pose a threat, including those who are transiting through UK airports.
• Requiring transit passengers to obtain an ETA stops people who may use connecting flights to avoid gaining permission to travel to the UK. We are keeping this under review as we continue to roll out the scheme.
  
  
  

  Electronic Travel Authorisation (ETA) scheme factsheet – February 2024 – Home Office in the media

  The Government’s number one priority is keeping the UK safe. To strengthen the security of our border and improve travel, the UK has launched an Electronic Travel Authorisation (ETA) scheme - an ETA is a digital permission to travel to the UK.

  homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk

I'm not aware of any changes leading up to implementation in a few days.

Not sure I even understand it, how easy is it to get into the UK when transferring between flights?

 

[stuu]

Not sure I even understand it, how easy is it to get into the UK when transferring between flights?

I would assume this is fear of asylum seekers, and the Daily Mail. Once on British soil people can claim asylum, and we can't have that

 

[eoff]

Ah I see, the floodgates were open for USA citizens to overwhelm the UK so we couldn't keep that exemption from the transit visa.

 

[cool110]

It does follow the US who don't allow transit at all and therefore full entry with an ESTA or visa.

 

[eoff]

It does follow the US who don't allow transit at all and therefore full entry with an ESTA or visa.

Sure but how many people transit from say the UK to another country via the US compared to how many transit LHR to/from the EU? If from the UK your final destination is the USA then there is no impact.
I have US work colleagues who have been asking about this forthcomming change (LHR transit) for a month or so now.

US Airports are not setup for non-entry transit in any case.

 

[Cloud Strife]

Not sure I even understand it, how easy is it to get into the UK when transferring between flights?

Not easy at all. You need to rely on an unlocked door, but this is pretty much impossible.

I have US work colleagues who have been asking about this forthcomming change (LHR transit) for a month or so now.

I strongly suspect that this will cause quite a few people to simply avoid Heathrow. It's a massive bonus for FRA, CHG, AMS, etc, as transit traffic is where a lot of money lies.

 

[eoff]

I strongly suspect that this will cause quite a few people to simply avoid Heathrow. It's a massive bonus for FRA, CHG, AMS, etc, as transit traffic is where a lot of money lies.

Seems that Heathrow is also concerned...

London Heathrow Airport (LHR) has warned that the UK government’s electronic travel authorization (ETA) scheme will make the country “less competitive and harm economic growth” if applied to transit passengers.

The government has confirmed that all visa-exempt visitors to the UK will now need to apply for digital travel authorization, with the scheme being phased in over the coming months. An ETA costs £10 ($13) and permits multiple journeys to the UK for stays of up to six months at a time over two years or until the holder’s passport expires—whichever is sooner. 

...
Starting Jan. 8, 2025, visitors from more than 40 countries and territories—including Australia, Japan, South Korea and the U.S.—will be added. The list will expand to include European Union nationals on April 2, with Irish citizens exempt. Travelers who currently need a visa to enter the UK will still be required to obtain one.

A spokesperson for LHR says that while the UK hub does not “disagree with the long-term rollout of the scheme,” it argues that the inclusion of airside transit passengers will reduce the UK's competitiveness and negatively impact economic growth.

Heathrow Warns On Competitiveness If ETA Scheme Is Applied To Transit Passengers | Aviation Week Network

London Heathrow, named as the world's most connected airport, warns a new UK travel scheme will harm competitiveness if applied to transit passengers.

aviationweek.com

 

[Chester1]

Wait, wait. I've missed that: the UK is going to demand the ETA for transit through the UK? That really is quite absurd, especially as ETIAS won't be needed for those in transit.

I think the issue is that they intend to use UK ETA to remove visa requirements for some countries that currently require visas. They tried with Jordan in last year but had to remove them from ETA after a couple of hundred people used it to claim asylum in Republic of Ireland. They probably don't care enough about transit revenue to have two tiers within the system. It's unlikely they would be happy with the most high risk nationalities transiting through the UK without any checks.

 

[Cloud Strife]

I think the issue is that they intend to use UK ETA to remove visa requirements for some countries that currently require visas.

There's really no reason why they couldn't have two tiers in the system, or at least make it so that the ETA could be issued for transit purposes for free for those from low risk countries. It seems like a revenue grab to try and transfer the cost of the ETA system onto travellers, nothing more.

One interesting exception to the rule is that you won't need an ETA if you're coming from Ireland for onwards transit. So yet again, there's a gaping hole in the system as EU citizens will (still) be able to fly to Ireland and then onwards to the UK without checks.

 

[TheWierdOne]

There's really no reason why they couldn't have two tiers in the system, or at least make it so that the ETA could be issued for transit purposes for free for those from low risk countries. It seems like a revenue grab to try and transfer the cost of the ETA system onto travellers, nothing more.

One interesting exception to the rule is that you won't need an ETA if you're coming from Ireland for onwards transit. So yet again, there's a gaping hole in the system as EU citizens will (still) be able to fly to Ireland and then onwards to the UK without checks.

Ireland is not part of Schengen so travellers would still be subject to checks upon leaving Schengen and entering the Common Travel Area

 

[Cloud Strife]

Ireland is not part of Schengen so travellers would still be subject to checks upon leaving Schengen and entering the Common Travel Area

EU citizens are only subject to minimal checks. Ireland doesn't routinely scan the ID cards or passports of EU citizens, it's often just a visual check.

 

[berneyarms]

EU citizens are only subject to minimal checks. Ireland doesn't routinely scan the ID cards or passports of EU citizens, it's often just a visual check.

Based on my frequent enough experience returning home, Irish immigration officials do scan them.

 

[Chester1]

Ireland keeps coming up in these threads. If the government didn't think the CTA could be adequately policed it would help situation by not treating flights arriving from Ireland as domestic. Yes there would still be other ways but they are not even bothered to match Ireland (who don't really have a Domestic flight process and passengers from UK go through border at airports but not land or sea). That indicates the surveillance of inter CTA travel must be pretty good by both countries.

 

[eoff]

Didn't last long...

Electronic Travel Authorisation (ETA) factsheet – January 2025 – Home Office in the media

News and updates from Home Office Media

homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk

Are ETAs needed by those transiting through the UK? If so, why?

• Following feedback from the aviation industry, the government has agreed a temporary exemption for passengers who transit airside, and therefore do not pass through UK border control, from needing an ETA. The exemption will be kept under review.

 

[Chester1]

Didn't last long...

Next time a nationality is upgraded from needing a visa to only needing an ETA there will be a problem. Hopefully they decide before switching categories that those nationalities need ETA for transit or it will be abused. As @Cloud Strife has said, two tiers of nationalities within ETA should be fine. By the "aviation industry" I assume they mean Heathrow and the airlines that use it. I doubt regional airports care at all!

 

[Cloud Strife]

Glad to see that common sense has prevailed here. There really was no reason whatever to require it from those in transit, especially as the UK has the infrastructure needed to accommodate airside transit anyway.

 

[island]

The latest update from http://europa.eu/ees is that EES is now expected to commence in October 2025.

 

[popeter45]

The latest update from http://europa.eu/ees is that EES is now expected to commence in October 2025.

so expect a delay announcement in September?

 

[Howardh]

so expect a delay announcement in September?

It's getting really frustrating now. Obviously I never wanted this in the first place being anti-Brexit.

But now it's coming - and yes, once established I can see the benefits IF it makes processing through immigration faster, and he chances are it certainly won't (!), I just want to get processed and on the system, not least because my passport expires next year so it's better if I get a new one shortly, then I'll only need two or possibly three EES/ETIAS protocols during it's life.

Add to that - I was thinking I wouldn't need the more expensive passport but with more pages as stamping is being phased out.

Also if it came in this autumn, there shouldn't be the hold-ups that will naturally occur if it comes in next summer, even though it's now to be "staged".

 

[island]

so expect a delay announcement in September?

In all likelihood yes.

ETIAS is similarly postponed to Q4 2026.

I am sitting here with my Irish passport awaiting a popcorn refill (sorry)

 

[Cloud Strife]

so expect a delay announcement in September?

Actually, this time, no. Now that the EU is allowing for common sense to be used in the EES rollout, it's likely that we'll see it implemented where Schengen states won't expect major problems with it, so it can be tested properly 'in action' before being deployed at scale. For instance, I'd expect Poland to deploy it straight away, as they already systematically record entries and exits. On the other hand, countries like Spain may well phase it in so that they can see how much manual intervention will be required.

The big question for me is what's going to happen when it comes to various bilateral agreements. For instance, Americans aren't subject to the 90 in 180 days limit in Poland, they can simply leave after any amount of days (up to 90) and then come straight back, but they are illegally in Schengen after 90 days. They can still come to/from Poland across the Schengen border, but they can't go to any of the neighbouring Schengen countries.

 

[Chester1]

It's getting really frustrating now. Obviously I never wanted this in the first place being anti-Brexit.

But now it's coming - and yes, once established I can see the benefits IF it makes processing through immigration faster, and he chances are it certainly won't (!), I just want to get processed and on the system, not least because my passport expires next year so it's better if I get a new one shortly, then I'll only need two or possibly three EES/ETIAS protocols during it's life.

Add to that - I was thinking I wouldn't need the more expensive passport but with more pages as stamping is being phased out.

Also if it came in this autumn, there shouldn't be the hold-ups that will naturally occur if it comes in next summer, even though it's now to be "staged".

It's very much a "first world problem"! If you are not sure then get the larger passport!

It definitely will speed things up once it's fully rolled out. Remember its not just Brits that will be sped up to close to pre brexit times, it's citizens of nearly 60 other countries too.

Actually, this time, no. Now that the EU is allowing for common sense to be used in the EES rollout, it's likely that we'll see it implemented where Schengen states won't expect major problems with it, so it can be tested properly 'in action' before being deployed at scale. For instance, I'd expect Poland to deploy it straight away, as they already systematically record entries and exits. On the other hand, countries like Spain may well phase it in so that they can see how much manual intervention will be required.

The big question for me is what's going to happen when it comes to various bilateral agreements. For instance, Americans aren't subject to the 90 in 180 days limit in Poland, they can simply leave after any amount of days (up to 90) and then come straight back, but they are illegally in Schengen after 90 days. They can still come to/from Poland across the Schengen border, but they can't go to any of the neighbouring Schengen countries.

Won't the situation stay the same but with EES being programmed to identify people using national visas or visa exemptions?

 

[Howardh]

will we eventually only have to show our iris and fingerprint instead of our passport even though we would probably still have to carry one?

 

[Chester1]

will we eventually only have to show our iris and fingerprint instead of our passport even though we would probably still have to carry one?

There is provision to allow people to leave Schengen using this if they have lost their passport. It's probably a long way off being able to use it for regular entry.

 

[alholmes]

will we eventually only have to show our iris and fingerprint instead of our passport even though we would probably still have to carry one?

There’s a membership scheme at Schiphol airport called Privium which only relies on iris scans. I was part of the original trial in the early-2000s and was a member for many years. Never had a problem with it and meant I could skip the queues, which was very useful as I was travelling every week through Schiphol at the time.

 

[Howardh]

There is provision to allow people to leave Schengen using this if they have lost their passport. It's probably a long way off being able to use it for regular entry.

There’s a membership scheme at Schiphol airport called Privium which only relies on iris scans. I was part of the original trial in the early-2000s and was a member for many years. Never had a problem with it and meant I could skip the queues, which was very useful as I was travelling every week through Schiphol at the time.

I would have thought that your iris/fingerprint* is more secure than a passport anyway; not sure these days but in the past false passports were a thing? Would be even better than what we had pre-Brexit if all you did was walk to a gate, look at a camera while your finger is on a pad. No fiddling around trying to find your passport, then the right page, then putting it in the slot wrong-way round!

*Of course there's always a situation that they have your fingerprint/scan and then something happens such as losing or burning that finger in an accident; and the whole process has to go through again?

 

[signed]

not sure these days but in the past false passports were a thing?

Fake documents are still a thing, though with the ePassports much less of course. But we hear some from 3rd world countries without ePassports (mainly India, but not for long) being faked

 

[cool110]

I would have thought that your iris/fingerprint* is more secure than a passport anyway; not sure these days but in the past false passports were a thing?

Not so much these days. Fingerprints are easier to copy than forging a valid biometric passport chip, unless it's an inside job.