My misrecollection and Thameslink ticket

[sidharth]

You need to find out whether or not the card was accepted for travel when you touched in. Get that information directly from TfL (or work it out with information from your bank about the time they gave the Decline message to TfL and the time you know you touched in). The way the system works, it is possible that the Decline message happened DURING your journey following a successful touch in. The train company's evidence needs to address this by telling the court the TIME it was declined and confirming that the touch in actually did fail.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jan 2025 ==

You don't mention the charge, but they normally prosecute under a byelaw for BOARDING a train without a valid ticket. I.e. whether or not the touch-in was successful is critical information. We have seen cases before where cards are accepted for travel at the start of a journey but then blocked shortly afterwards but the prosecutions department doesn't understand this can happen.

Thank you. It has appeared following speaking with the bank and TFL that I may have not touched in properly. As I mentioned in the email I was rushing so I didn't pay attention. No charge was taken. My card had been declined but not at that station and for other reasons. I had had issues with that card other times. Perhaps I should say to Govia that I think I may not have touched properly due to rushing and going through a lot of stress. I know it may not matter but I was living in a refuge after escaping years of severe DV and complex PTSD causes me issues with memory. anxiety and concentration.

 

[30907]

Thanks.

First, can you confirm the exact offence alleged?

Second, your letter is far too detailed at this stage. You may need to explain all this at some stage but the staff member reading your reply won't have time to.

Unless the points made by furlong alter the circumstances, I suggest you simplify the middle section along the following lines.

...
The refuge told me that they never received any letters addressed to me.
I can supply Please, find attached their letter (Exhibit 1) confirming that. I can also supply documentation about my personal and health circumstances if required.

I only received the Single Justice Procedure Notice to my current address on 30/12/24.

I am very grateful to have the opportunity to explain what happened on 29/08/24 now after informing you that I never received your letter.

I would normally top up my Oyster Card at ****** Station, but as my son was being unruly, I knew it would be difficult for me to do so at the fare machine, so I chose to use my debit card as a reliable solution.
I normally use Oyster for travel within London, but on this occasion I used my debit card to tap in at ****** for my journey to ******** but did not notice that the payment had been declined until the inspectors told me. I have been in touch with the issuer and am still not entirely clear why it happened. I apologise and assure you I will take extra care in future to avoid accidentally offending.

Nevertheless, I am well aware that it was my responsibility to pay the fare, and that fare evasion costs the railway and taxpayer an enormous amount. I would therefore be enormously grateful if you would agree to settle this matter outside court. I am willing to pay the outstanding fare and all your administrative and legal costs in dealing with this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you.
******* *********

The attachments can come into play at a later stage - certainly if it came to court they would be mitigation for the magistrate/s to consider.

Other members may be able to improve on this - don't take it as the last word.

 

[sidharth]

Thanks.

First, can you confirm the exact offence alleged?

Second, your letter is far too detailed at this stage. You may need to explain all this at some stage but the staff member reading your reply won't have time to.

Unless the points made by furlong alter the circumstances, I suggest you simplify the middle section along the following lines.


The attachments can come into play at a later stage - certainly if it came to court they would be mitigation for the magistrate/s to consider.

Other members may be able to improve on this - don't take it as the last word.

Many thanks. The offence I am being charged with is "not producing a valid ticket entitling travel."

 

[30907]

Many thanks. The offence I am being charged with is "not producing a valid ticket entitling travel."

Which is a "strict liability" offence under the Byelaws, so you have no defence (again, subject to furlong's earlier points)..

However, you should be able to resolve this before it gets to court

 

[furlong]

Many thanks. The offence I am being charged with is "not producing a valid ticket entitling travel."

But there is no such offence!

If that's what it says, it could be challenged on the grounds that it is "duplicitous" - an invalid combination of two offences - but there is a process whereby the court may allow the prosecutor to amend it to something that's valid

There is one offence for not producing a ticket (without the word "valid"). There is a separate offence for boarding a train without a valid ticket.

The complete wording might give a clue as to which one they might pick if required to amend it.

 

[sidharth]

I immensely appreciate your help. I will send them my reply now as advised. My conscience is clear. Thank you so much!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Jan 2025 ==

Which is a "strict liability" offence under the Byelaws, so you have no defence (again, subject to furlong's earlier points)..

However, you should be able to resolve this before it gets to court

Thanks for your incredible help. I do hope so. My career path is law, and getting a criminal record would change everything. God bless you.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jan 2025 ==

Good morning. May I take this opportunity to thank the incredible people who took time out of their schedule to help me with my query.
Had it not been for you I would have had a serious mental health breakdown given my circumstances.
I was issued an out of court settlement fine by GTR that I will pay today or tomorrow. They were extremely professional and made it very clear that this must not happen again or the matter will go to court. I will make sure every time I tap or enter a train station that payment has gone through.
You have been very kind with your time and knowledge. Thanks for helping me. I am very grateful!