Cable theft at Bolton 28 December 2024

[Meole]

How large is this amount of cable ?

 

[warwickshire]

Then again at the location in question, should common sense not have prevailed.
Ie Network rail should have provided Security guards to guard the site, to stop the Theft and put up Cctv and warning signs etc.

Ie cheaper to spend, a little more for protection to stop Theft, rather than a lot more in the long run after Theft took place??

 

[Thornaby 37]

I do wonder whether the scope for this sort of thing happening could be reduced if engineering projects were carried out in-house by Network Rail rather than using subcontractors
As for when the wires were due to be energised, there are certain items of information that should only appear in Traffic Notices, staff briefings etc

 

[Annetts key]

Really the notices and public information should say that the system will be powered up in stages without giving details of when each section will become live.

That would then reduce the number of people who known for certain with sections are dead and which are live.

 

[Towers]

What do you do? Have police out each night watching?

If it’s the fourth consecutive night of thefts from the same vicinity? Yes!

 

[Railsigns]

When the East Coast Main Line was being electrified up to Edinburgh, a theft alarm system using mercury switches was attached to the unenergised catenary, which gave an alarm at the BT Police HQ at Cowcaddens when activated.

 

[Mugby]

What do the thieves do with the cable after they get it away? Surely it's a criminal offence for any metal dealers to accept anything which is known or thought to be stolen?
Is the cable degraded into an unrecognisable state or is it easy to find places where no questions are asked?

 

[Towers]

What do the thieves do with the cable after they get it away? Surely it's a criminal offence for any metal dealers to accept anything which is known or thought to be stolen?
Is the cable degraded into an unrecognisable state or is it easy to find places where no questions are asked?

Almost certainly the latter.

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

To be fair to who ever people are blaming, hilariously many people believe its Northern Rail themselves who took the cable as an excuse to the terrible service! Conspiracy deepens

I've certainly heard tales of mysterious fires affecting building projects the day before they were due to be handed over but hadn't been completed, thus neatly sidestepping penalty clauses in contracts...

However, I think this is one conspiracy we can discount, as there's no chance Northern could organise something like this on time or over Christmas

 

[Harpo]

……hilariously many people believe its Northern Rail themselves who took the cable……

Nah. This needed a far higher level of skill and organisation.

 

[Signal Head]

That rather sounds like a monumental failure of NR and the authorities to catch the perpetrators! Open goal or what…

You wouldn't necessarily immediately know the lights belonged to unauthorised persons, and once they're away off site, how do you identify/catch them?

This happened many years ago in the Manchester area, during the ASLEF strikes (82?). About 200m of 20pr telecoms cable cut out overnight. Cable replaced, gone again the next morning, at one end neatly cut about a foot from the 'submarine' joint installed the previous day.
While this was being repaired again, they were obviously busy elsewhere as when finished it was noticed that a signal in the distance didn't seem to be lit - it had been when we arrived on site. That patch belonged to the neighbouring Division, so nothing we could do but report it.

Rail staff (especially these days) aren't going to tackle a gang of thieves prepared to use who-knows-what level of violence to avoid capture, and you can't have BTP everywhere at once.

 

[dgl]

I suppose a cheap solution would be for any high value lengths of cable that are not live to have a small voltage applied to them that can be detected by an alarm, any break in the cable would then set off the alarm. Do it cleverly and the resistance of the cable could be measured by the system making bypassing it more difficult.

Of course if it's an inside job then a lot of security measures probably won't work as they'll know about them and probably how to defeat them.

 

[AverageJoe]

Metrolink trams don’t run Xmas and I think potentially Boxing Day but they keep the lines electrified specifically because of previous cable theft.
I believe someone has to work in the control centre over those days in case an emergency shut down is needed.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Metrolink trams don’t run Xmas and I think potentially Boxing Day

Normally it's just Christmas Day that sees no service on Manchester Metrolink. Boxing Day is a 7 a.m. until midnight service on most, if not all, lines, albeit with a slightly thinned out every 15 minutes service frequency.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I've certainly heard tales of mysterious fires affecting building projects the day before they were due to be handed over but hadn't been completed, thus neatly sidestepping penalty clauses in contracts...

I'm surprised these clauses don't include: "...including any delays for repairs to any damage or theft caused by a lapse of security or internal negligence..."

 

[Towers]

Almost certainly the latter.

You wouldn't necessarily immediately know the lights belonged to unauthorised persons, and once they're away off site, how do you identify/catch them?

This happened many years ago in the Manchester area, during the ASLEF strikes (82?). About 200m of 20pr telecoms cable cut out overnight. Cable replaced, gone again the next morning, at one end neatly cut about a foot from the 'submarine' joint installed the previous day.
While this was being repaired again, they were obviously busy elsewhere as when finished it was noticed that a signal in the distance didn't seem to be lit - it had been when we arrived on site. That patch belonged to the neighbouring Division, so nothing we could do but report it.

Rail staff (especially these days) aren't going to tackle a gang of thieves prepared to use who-knows-what level of violence to avoid capture, and you can't have BTP everywhere at once.

I would have hoped that NR might have developed sufficient resilience to be able to do something like deploy a drone or two in areas which are under repeated attack on successive days. This isn’t a particularly outlandish - or indeed expensive, in the grand scheme of things - tactic, and doesn’t require more than a handful of staff to form the approriate team and the cooperation of the BTP (and/or indeed the local force if appropriate). They do/did use helicopters, after all! It sounds very much as though NR’s response to cable thefts it to turn up the next day, replace it and hope it doesn’t get nicked again, which is a rather lacklustre approach in this day and age. Thieves returning to the same strecth of track several days in a row and cutting fresh sections of cable to steal, within sight of the teams relaying the bits they stole yesterday, really ought not to be outside the capabilities of a half decent response.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Was the actual theft location nearer to Lostock, rather than Bolton? What lines are affected? Is it just Bolton to Preston via Lostock and Chorley? (Bolton to Wigan Wallgate was meant to be bustituted today, wasn't it?)

Was an actual location determined? It was the top story on the BBC local news in the North West yesterday, but the reporter only seemed to do a piece to camera outside Bolton station and the main focus seemed to be that train services to Manchester Airport were badly affected.

 

[Trackman]

Was an actual location determined? It was the top story on the BBC local news in the North West yesterday, but the reporter only seemed to do a piece to camera outside Bolton station and the main focus seemed to be that train services to Manchester Airport were badly affected.

BTP has said it's a from a project site at Lostock. I imagine some sort of works compound, poss Lostock junction so nearer to Lostock than Bolton, if you get my drift as Lostock is in Bolton.

https://www.btp.police.uk/news/btp/news/england/theft-at-lostock-engineering-works-site/

British Transport Police was made aware of the theft of a high-value electrical cable from a project site at Lostock, Bolton during the Christmas period which was due to be used as part of Network Rail’s plan to electrify the line between Wigan and Bolton.


The cable that was stolen provides power to the overhead line equipment, which in turn powers electric trains across the tracks.


Drone patrols will be in operation at the site in the days and weeks to come to aid the investigation and deter further criminal activity.

 

[GraphitProjekt]

Was an actual location determined? It was the top story on the BBC local news in the North West yesterday, but the reporter only seemed to do a piece to camera outside Bolton station and the main focus seemed to be that train services to Manchester Airport were badly affected.

I could be wrong but I've heard it was newly installed feeder cables at Lostock SATS (sectioning autotransformer (sub)station). To me this reeks of insider information because the equipment there has been supplying the Bolton line in normal service for years now and would therefore have live components in the way until a scheduled switch-off at some point around Christmas. I don't know the specifics of the site so maybe all the new stuff was just hanging out in the open. But if the thieves had to wait around for the Bolton line to be de-energised in order to safely reach the stolen cables, they surely would have had insider info to be able to be at the location at a window of time when no staff/contractors were about AND the supply switched off. But this is just my speculation.

 

[TheSel]

Is the theft of power cable just another facet of Northern's ongoing conductor shortage?!?


[I'll get me coat ...]

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I do wonder whether the scope for this sort of thing happening could be reduced if engineering projects were carried out in-house by Network Rail rather than using subcontractors

All major electrification projects, even under BR, were delivered by contractors (eg the predecessors of Balfour Beatty).
BR might have done the civils part, and the resignalling, but supplying and installing the OHLE route was a contractor task.

 

[43066]

Is the theft of power cable just another facet of Northern's ongoing conductor shortage?!?


[I'll get me coat ...]

Very good!

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I would have hoped that NR might have developed sufficient resilience to be able to do something like deploy a drone or two in areas which are under repeated attack on successive days.

For a moment when reading that I thought you were saying NR should have attack drones to prevent theft (definitely one counter to trespassing).

Is the theft of power cable just another facet of Northern's ongoing conductor shortage?!?

Both of them were cancelling trains on Sunday!

 

[Wychwood93]

Almost certainly the latter.

The right answer.

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

Is the theft of power cable just another facet of Northern's ongoing conductor shortage?!?


[I'll get me coat ...]

This is a shocking allegation...

 

[RichardAsh1981]

There was a significant reduction in metals theft (which also affects the electricity transmission/distribution industry, church roofs ...) a number of years ago when all scrap metal dealers were obliged to make payments via a traceable system (cheque / BACS), because investigators could follow the money. The problem is now getting worse again, so either the value of scrap metal has gone up (relative to other things which could be stolen), or ways round the payment rules have been found.

I wonder if this is partly an indirect consequence of better security in other fields, e.g. stealing and selling cars is now a lot harder as many of the high value ones are GPS tracked in real time ...

 

[Towers]

There was a significant reduction in metals theft (which also affects the electricity transmission/distribution industry, church roofs ...) a number of years ago when all scrap metal dealers were obliged to make payments via a traceable system (cheque / BACS), because investigators could follow the money. The problem is now getting worse again, so either the value of scrap metal has gone up (relative to other things which could be stolen), or ways round the payment rules have been found.

I wonder if this is partly an indirect consequence of better security in other fields, e.g. stealing and selling cars is now a lot harder as many of the high value ones are GPS tracked in real time ...

I’m sure there is a healthy supply & demand on the black market, as with most things. You can have as many rules & requirements as you like of course, but it won’t stop unscrupulous dealers buying tipper loads of iffy metal for cash off the books.

 

[RichardAsh1981]

I’m sure there is a healthy supply & demand on the black market, as with most things. You can have as many rules & requirements as you like of course, but it won’t stop unscrupulous dealers buying tipper loads of iffy metal for cash off the books.

I'm sure there is a black market, but it is a bit more complex for most cable. By the time it has been stolen, it is more or less useless as cable (and I don't think Network Rail are desperate enough to be be buying it back on the dark side, so who else would it be sold to?). Instead it has to be recycled as metal scrap, which means machinery to process it (removing insulation) and ultimately a route back into the supply chain. Or maybe (like everything else we don't want, and quite a few stolen cars) it gets exported now? If it is being processed in the UK, it should be reasonably hard to hide a factory of any any scale (with associated workforce, buildings, energy supply ...) - assuming the resources exist to go looking for it.

 

[Towers]

I'm sure there is a black market, but it is a bit more complex for most cable. By the time it has been stolen, it is more or less useless as cable (and I don't think Network Rail are desperate enough to be be buying it back on the dark side, so who else would it be sold to?). Instead it has to be recycled as metal scrap, which means machinery to process it (removing insulation) and ultimately a route back into the supply chain. Or maybe (like everything else we don't want, and quite a few stolen cars) it gets exported now? If it is being processed in the UK, it should be reasonably hard to hide a factory of any any scale (with associated workforce, buildings, energy supply ...) - assuming the resources exist to go looking for it.

That’s a very insightful post, thank you - very interesting to hear some evidently more informed thoughts than my own! Perhaps it all ends up in a container then, that sounds plausible!

 

[Efini92]

If it’s the fourth consecutive night of thefts from the same vicinity? Yes!

You’d think they’d have anticipated cable theft. When the atherton line was resignalled in 2014 thieves nicked all the cable. Clifton got that bad for cable thefts NR installed multiple cctv cameras for a stretch of line.