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East-West Rail (EWR): Oxford-Bletchley construction progress

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Nicholas43

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I imagine they would challenge the basic idea that that more rail services need to exist. If it comes down to a choice between keeping the road open or EWR existing, they'll pick the road.
The EWR company will exist as long as there is lots of money to be made from new houses between Bedford and Cambridge. The questions are, how many trains will various companies under Great British Rail run through Bicester Town in, say, 2035, will it really be more than (for example) Portslade now, and could they run them, accurately, to a timetable such that they crossed at London Road, this optimising sharing the planet with the car-dependent?
 
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swt_passenger

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There have been quite a few short discussions in this thread already about the possible closure of Bicester Level Crossing, and the problems it might cause if a bridge can’t be built. Everyone seems to agree it’s a significant issue, but it is something for the consultation process to sort out. It’s not really about current construction progress?
 

Nicholas43

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There have been quite a few short discussions in this thread already about the possible closure of Bicester Level Crossing, and the problems it might cause if a bridge can’t be built. Everyone seems to agree it’s a significant issue, but it is something for the consultation process to sort out. It’s not really about current construction progress?
Indeed so. Maybe we need a new speculative thread about resolving car/train competition at Bicester London Road. Meanwhile, I think the only new train services we'll get till 2035 (at the earliest) are the 2 ph Oxford<>Milton Keynes, and the only construction still required is opening up the footbridge to Bletchley High Level.
 

The Planner

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I don’t think it has been mentioned yet but as part of the latest consultation announced on 14 November, East West Rail are proposing to construct two new loops for freight in the Up direction around Steeple Claydon and near Islip. It would mean there would be 3 loops in total in the up direction towards Oxford but only one in the down direction. Presumably this is reflecting that more freight is expected in that direction - it will be easier to find paths for freight heading south at Denbigh Hall Jn and at Oxford North Jn due to there being fewer crossing moves than when going north.

Also being proposed is closure of Bicester London Road level crossing. This is without a suitable alternative for motorised vehicles being provided. There would be either a subway or ramped bridge for pedestrians and cyclists at London Road.

As such it will mean longer journeys around the existing ring road etc for motorists and bus users. The road system is regularly congested even now without the additional traffic flows that closing the level crossing will cause.

It is fair to say that this proposal has not gone down well locally and is being challenged.
I genuinely dont see the need for one at Islip. Its too close to Bicester. There are some big assumptions that a load of paths through Northampton to Denbigh Hall will be there as well.

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I've mentioned before that the existing loops at Claydon and Bicester are bi-directional so to say there would be 'only one in the down direction' is not correct. Down direction trains would have to cross the Up line to access the loops but they can still be recessed in the Down direction. I assume any new loops proposed would also be bi-directional.
Chances of them being used in that manner is slim, you can do that at Fenny Compton, Dorridge etc but its once in a blue moon.
 

fishwomp

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I genuinely dont see the need for one [up passing loop] at Islip. Its too close to Bicester. There are some big assumptions that a load of paths through Northampton to Denbigh Hall will be there as well.
I think it makes it easier to thread through Oxford - somewhere to hold a freight and let terminating services overtake and use their dedicated path to platform 1/2. The southbound at Oxford can get pretty congested as they thread fast XC / GWRs through not just 2-track to Didcot but also thinking ahead for east of Didcot. Today they sometimes hold back southbound containers from Banbury direction just north of Oxford North Junction. As it currently stands, they don't have any way to do that for things coming off Bicester route.
 

The Planner

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I think it makes it easier to thread through Oxford - somewhere to hold a freight and let terminating services overtake and use their dedicated path to platform 1/2. The southbound at Oxford can get pretty congested as they thread fast XC / GWRs through not just 2-track to Didcot but also thinking ahead for east of Didcot. Today they sometimes hold back southbound containers from Banbury direction just north of Oxford North Junction. As it currently stands, they don't have any way to do that for things coming off Bicester route.
They have the loop at Bicester MOD, it seems very odd to need a loop within 6 miles.
 

Mikey C

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Seems like the definition of NIMBYism. "I won't be using the new service so I disagree with it / don't see why we need it". They are unable to see the bigger picture / wider benefit to society and instead focus on themselves being inconvenienced.
It's hardly Nimbyism to be concerned about a crucial road you use being chopped in two. This isn't a quiet country lane, it's a an important route through the town and the ONLY road crossing of the railway inside the bypass. London Road is the former route of the A41.

What doesn't make sense is to have this conversation about closing the level crossing now. Surely it's one of the decisions which should have been decided before the scheme was authorised.
 

67018

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London Road is a key access route for east-side residents and businesses alike.
I cannot see how east-destined commercial traffic benefits from being routed along the bypass then down the existing narrow roads such as Church Street and Market Square.

I was a Bicester resident Jan 1991 until Dec 1993 - prior to Sheep Street commerce was ruined from pedestrianisation (I was on the local Chamber Of Commerce objecting to that act of vandalism); and a few years before redevelopment of the old Tesco site (now a Sainsburys and cinema).
Commercial traffic is unlikely to use Church Street and Market Square. It'll access the centre via St John's Street or Launton Road.

It is however, much more of an issue for residents that find themselves the wrong side of the tracks and facing a journey two or three times as long as it currently is. Although, in reality they have that already given how often the crossing seems to fail and block the road for extended periods of time. I would also expect that the increase in rail traffic from the current test/training runs means the barriers are down for so long that the route is virtually unusable.

This has been a bone of contention for years as there seems no realistic solution for replacing the crossing with an alternative for road traffic and no available diversionary route - Gavray Drive is the obvious one but they'd have to knock down Aldi. However the rail authorities haven't done themselves many favours by appearing to tell the locals they'll just have to lump it.

(As an aside, as a current resident of Bicester I am very glad that your objections to pedestrianisation were ignored so we can now enjoy a civilised traffic free town centre!)

(And shouldn't this discussion all be in the thread related to future consultation not current construction?!)
 

Sun Chariot

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(As an aside, as a current resident of Bicester I am very glad that your objections to pedestrianisation were ignored so we can now enjoy a civilised traffic free town centre!)
It was still a relatively quiet market town in 1991, with ample independent shops along Sheep Street being a key source of our day-to-day needs. "Park up, pop in and purchase".
Bicester's population in 1991 was 17,500. It's passed 40,000 and it's projected to reach 50,000 by 2030. Quiet it will never again be.
 

yorkie

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Just a gentle reminder, this thread is an infrastructure updates thread to discuss progress relating to the EWR Oxford-Bletchley construction.

Thanks :)
 

12LDA28C

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Chances of them being used in that manner is slim

I'm sure this is correct however the installation of bi-di signalling during construction, providing access to the loops from either end suggests that somebody somewhere considered that would be a useful facility which had some value.

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I would also expect that the increase in rail traffic from the current test/training runs means the barriers are down for so long that the route is virtually unusable.

Since the majority of the training runs pass over the crossing at, or close to line speed, the barriers are down for rather less time than they are for trains which actually stop at Bicester Village so claiming that 'the route is virtually unusable' is some way from the truth.

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Is all construction activity at Winslow station complete then? I thought some finishing off was still ongoing - but that was a little while ago.

I believe there is still some fitting out of the main station building to complete. The platforms appear finished, indeed there are already functioning information screens on each platform, proclaiming 'Welcome to Chiltern Railways. For service information please check timetables'!
 
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absolutelymilk

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Since the majority of the training runs pass over the crossing at, or close to line speed, the barriers are down for rather less time than they are for trains which actually stop at Bicester Village so claiming that 'the route is virtually unusable' is some way from the truth.
Presume that will change once the route opens though?
 

Andyjs247

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I'm sure this is correct however the installation of bi-di signalling during construction, providing access to the loops from either end suggests that somebody somewhere considered that would be a useful facility which had some value.

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Since the majority of the training runs pass over the crossing at, or close to line speed, the barriers are down for rather less time than they are for trains which actually stop at Bicester Village so claiming that 'the route is virtually unusable' is some way from the truth.

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I believe there is still some fitting out of the main station building to complete. The platforms appear finished, indeed there are already functioning information screens on each platform, proclaiming 'Welcome to Chiltern Railways. For service information please check timetables'!
The loops at Bicester and at Claydon also provide access to the MoD facility and future HS2 maintenance depot respectively. A train can arrive from either direction and then depart back to where it arrived from. Or if necessary you could arrive in Claydon loop from Bicester, run round and head towards Aylesbury or Greatmoor EfW (when the connection is restored that is).

Ordinarily I don’t see a need for a train from Bletchley to be looped at Claydon then continue towards Oxford - that is presumably why they are proposing a loop at Steeple Claydon. I’m curious as to why another loop would be needed at Islip though. You could overtake something stood at Woodstock Road Jn using the bi-di if needed so the requirement is less obvious.

I’ve yet to see anything pass through Bicester Village at line speed. Training runs are infrequent and the best that Chiltern can muster is usually a 165. When are the 196s going to be available?

It is quite frustrating knowing that you could take your pick now from a variety of redundant EMUs that could do the job perfectly well providing a service between Oxford and MK, if only electrification had gone ahead as originally planned…
 

zwk500

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I'm sure this is correct however the installation of bi-di signalling during construction, providing access to the loops from either end suggests that somebody somewhere considered that would be a useful facility which had some value.
I had always taken the bi-di capability to be linked to its future role as an access to the HS2 maintenance Base (e.g. a train from Crewe via Bletchley), and the capability to loop a westbound train is simply a bonus. Officially isn't it 1 loop and 1 siding?
 

12LDA28C

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I had always taken the bi-di capability to be linked to its future role as an access to the HS2 maintenance Base (e.g. a train from Crewe via Bletchley), and the capability to loop a westbound train is simply a bonus. Officially isn't it 1 loop and 1 siding?

It’s a loop and a reception road (which is accessible from either end so also effectively a loop).

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Presume that will change once the route opens though?

Yes as EWR services will be stopping at Bicester Village. Still some time before passenger trains start operating though.

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I’ve yet to see anything pass through Bicester Village at line speed. Training runs are infrequent and the best that Chiltern can muster is usually a 165. When are the 196s going to be available?

I was on a train myself a few weeks ago that passed through Bicester Village at 90mph, although of course if a 165 is rostered for training runs they are limited to 75mph. 196s are now being leased and training will commence shortly.
 
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Sun Chariot

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I was on a train myself a few weeks ago that passed through Bicester Village at 90mph
As someone who walked the permanent way round the curve from the London Road crossing to the bridge under Chiltern's main line, back in 1992, the fact you traversed it at 90mph is utterly astounding.
Ditto for the curve located by the former Swanbourne station; the IET runs flew round it when I was stood there.
A credit to all involved in the reconstruction project. 8-)

@12LDA28C you mentioned you were on a train a few weeks ago - was it the IET / 168 during latter October's runs?
 
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CR165022

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I was on a train myself a few weeks ago that passed through Bicester Village at 90mph, although of course if a 165 is rostered for training runs they are limited to 75mph. 196s are now being leased and training will commence shortly.
That would have been Bicester North that you went through not village. The level crossing and signals right outside the station prevent anything from passing through Village at a high speed.
 

Andyjs247

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It’s 75/HST100 through Bicester Village - until quite recently everything would have been going to/from the curve linking the Chiltern line - which is 40mph. Not much chance of doing 100mph!
 

12LDA28C

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That would have been Bicester North that you went through not village. The level crossing and signals right outside the station prevent anything from passing through Village at a high speed.

No, it was Bicester Village. I'm afraid you're incorrect - Marylebone North signaller is able to manually initiate the barrier sequence early at London Road LC to allow trains to pass through the station non-stop at line speed, rather than waiting for the train to reach the strike-in point for the crossing.

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It’s 75/HST100 through Bicester Village - until quite recently everything would have been going to/from the curve linking the Chiltern line - which is 40mph. Not much chance of doing 100mph!

Unless the train passing through has been routed towards or from the Bletchley direction, of course.

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Phew - there was me thinking it was a truly brave driver, or a heck of an upgrade to the old LNWR line...

A truly brave driver, driving their train at line speed on green signals? How so?

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@12LDA28C you mentioned you were on a train a few weeks ago - was it the IET / 168 during latter October's runs?

One of the Class 168 runs, yes.
 
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Sun Chariot

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One of the Class 168 runs, yes
Thanks. The reconstruction has impressed me greatly. I'm rather envious that you had the line to enjoy - all I could do, was marvel from the lineside. :D
I hope the attached rekindles good memories @12LDA28C

A truly brave driver, driving their train at line speed on green signals? How so?
Post #2088 incorrectly stated that: ".... The level crossing and signals right outside the station prevent anything from passing through Village at a high speed."
So disregard my response to that post. :)
 

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Class 170101

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Also being proposed is closure of Bicester London Road level crossing. This is without a suitable alternative for motorised vehicles being provided. There would be either a subway or ramped bridge for pedestrians and cyclists at London Road.

As such it will mean longer journeys around the existing ring road etc for motorists and bus users. The road system is regularly congested even now without the additional traffic flows that closing the level crossing will cause.

It is fair to say that this proposal has not gone down well locally and is being challenged.

And what alternative do people challenging this proposal suggest? There is not the space to construct a road bridge, and I believe a tunnel is not possible either. All options have surely been explored.
Keep the existing route for buses, taxis, cycles, pedestrians etc. But ban cars, lorries and vans from using it. Much like a bus lane would be my suggestion.
 

jfowkes

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Keep the existing route for buses, taxis, cycles, pedestrians etc. But ban cars, lorries and vans from using it. Much like a bus lane would be my suggestion.
What would that achieve though? If you're keeping the crossing open, you may as well keep it open for all users. I'm guessing the risk profile probably doesn't change that much by removing a subset of the traffic (though I'm not sure about that, maybe it does...?)
 

absolutelymilk

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What would that achieve though? If you're keeping the crossing open, you may as well keep it open for all users. I'm guessing the risk profile probably doesn't change that much by removing a subset of the traffic (though I'm not sure about that, maybe it does...?)
You would at least stop queues building up either side, and taxi/bus drivers are (hopefully!) less likely to run the risk of going through the barriers
 

12LDA28C

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You would at least stop queues building up either side, and taxi/bus drivers are (hopefully!) less likely to run the risk of going through the barriers

I’m not sure that logic follows at all, in my experience taxi drivers are some of the worst drivers on the road, rather ironically.
 

absolutelymilk

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I’m not sure that logic follows at all, in my experience taxi drivers are some of the worst drivers on the road, rather ironically.
I think they're very good at knowing what rules they can get away with breaking, and seem to know where all the speed cameras are. I'd hope that they would know they can't get away with jumping the lights at a level crossing, particularly if they put up a camera there to catch people doing it!
 
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