Delay repay on return limited to single journey.

[Bertiethebobby]

I know that the rules for Delay Repay on a return if over 59 minutes late are 50% of the total fare but on a short journey this seems inadequate to me.

I travelled from Shrewsbury to Caergwrle changing at Wrexham General and the outward journey was fine. On my return, the train from Caergwrle to Wrexham was 10 minutes late
which meant I narrowly missed the connection to Shrewsbury (Incidentally RTT shows the train departed 1 minute early which may have made the difference) The next train
was 74 minutes later with the correspondingly late arrival at Shrewsbury. I submitted a claim to TFW which was immediately authorised, however, my compensation amounts to only £4.33
which seems very poor recompense for such a massive delay. If I had travelled from say London, Edinburgh or wherever this would have been a lot more for the same delay.

This seems unfair and I reckon that there should be a minimum level of compensation, especially if there is no alternative method of transport, ie bus etc.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@Bertiethebobby. 50% of the railcard discounted Anytime Day Return fare of £8.65 from Shrewsbury to/from Caergwrle (so £4.33) seems to have been the correct Delay Repay payout for a 1 hr one-way delay with TfW. How much were you expecting for a £8.65 fare?

 

[PG]

If I had travelled from say London, Edinburgh or wherever this would have been a lot more for the same delay.

Presumably it would have been a lot more because the ticket price would have been a lot more? It would still be the same percentage of the ticket price, even though the delay as a percentage of the total journey time would be less.

 

[LickeyIncliner]

...

This seems unfair and I reckon that there should be a minimum level of compensation, especially if there is no alternative method of transport, ie bus etc.

I see your point. It would in a way be "fairer" if a delay of so many minutes produced a fixed level of compensation, irrespective of how much you had paid for the ticket. We all have 24 hours in each day, so a 74 minute delay is in a sense the same whether you've come from Caergwrle or Crianlarich. But as I understand it, Delay Repay isn't strictly compensation for the inconvenience or harm that you've suffered, it's simply a partial or full refund because the operator has failed to provide the service that you paid for, and like any other refund it is related to and limited to what you paid. The fact that Delay Repay is called "compensation" on every website and publication that mentions it is, I believe, just to distinguish repayment when you arrive late from refunds paid when the operator can't get you to your destination at all (or if the passenger simply chooses not to travel, where the ticket allows this option).

 

[trainophile]

All the more annoying if the delay causes you to miss an event that you'd paid an admission fee for. The use of the railway to get somewhere is a type of gambling really.

 

[LickeyIncliner]

All the more annoying if the delay causes you to miss an event that you'd paid an admission fee for. The use of the railway to get somewhere is a type of gambling really.

So is any form of transport - even if you walk, you might trip and end up in A&E rather than enjoying the outing out you were looking forward too. And to some extent it works the other way round as well - the transport system may get you where you want to be in comfort and in good time, only for the event you've paid for to be cancelled. In which case you should get a refund of what you paid for tickets to the event, but you won't get compensation for the loss of enjoyment or for your wasted travel time and costs.

 

[Watershed]

I see your point. It would in a way be "fairer" if a delay of so many minutes produced a fixed level of compensation, irrespective of how much you had paid for the ticket. We all have 24 hours in each day, so a 74 minute delay is in a sense the same whether you've come from Caergwrle or Crianlarich. But as I understand it, Delay Repay isn't strictly compensation for the inconvenience or harm that you've suffered, it's simply a partial or full refund because the operator has failed to provide the service that you paid for, and like any other refund it is related to and limited to what you paid. The fact that Delay Repay is called "compensation" on every website and publication that mentions it is, I believe, just to distinguish repayment when you arrive late from refunds paid when the operator can't get you to your destination at all (or if the passenger simply chooses not to travel, where the ticket allows this option).

I can definitely see where you're coming from, as it's the way that delay/cancellation compensation works in the airline industry - with the corollary that the vast majority of disruption doesn't give rise to compensation as the delay threshold is high, and/or the causes fall within the "exceptional circumstances" exception.

At the end of the day, whichever approach you take, there are going to be people who are arguably over- or under-compensated, and on balance I think the Delay Repay system gets it about right.

It is certainly very generous by international standards - most European carriers only give the paltry statutory minimum in compensation, and have taken full advantage of the EU version of the PRO being changed recently to add an "exceptional circumstances"-type exclusion (which didn't exist for the previous 15-odd years).

As for the label compensation, I think it is certainly useful to distinguish it from refunds seeing as, for the time being, these are two very different entitlements which are (usually) claimed from different entities.

The label is arbitrary in a way - it's certainly not a refund in the legal sense, but rather more a case of liquidated damages (i.e. an amount which is contractually due when certain breaches of contract occur). It's very commonplace across both consumer and commercial contracts for liquidated damages to be calculated as a percentage of the price paid by the customer.

 

[Bertiethebobby]

All the more annoying if the delay causes you to miss an event that you'd paid an admission fee for. The use of the railway to get somewhere is a type of gambling really.

Absolutely, I use Avanti and TFW mostly and I just assume that there'll be a problem at some point. On this occasion the 74 minute late arrival was very inconvenient as I was going out that evening and had to rearrange plans.

 

[island]

It is certainly very generous by international standards - most European carriers only give the paltry statutory minimum in compensation, and have taken full advantage of the EU version of the PRO being changed recently to add an "exceptional circumstances"-type exclusion (which didn't exist for the previous 15-odd years).

Not only that, but they also don't compensate at all if the calculated sum falls under a floor amount which I think is €4.

 

[infobleep]

So is any form of transport - even if you walk, you might trip and end up in A&E rather than enjoying the outing out you were looking forward too. And to some extent it works the other way round as well - the transport system may get you where you want to be in comfort and in good time, only for the event you've paid for to be cancelled. In which case you should get a refund of what you paid for tickets to the event, but you won't get compensation for the loss of enjoyment or for your wasted travel time and costs.

This is so true. I was once running to my pilates class and upon overtaking someone I tripped up. I had to then go and get a plaster and clean up the blood loss. Nothing seriously major but I missed my class, which I had paid for.

So yes, anything can disrupt you.

 

[Titfield]

All the more annoying if the delay causes you to miss an event that you'd paid an admission fee for. The use of the railway to get somewhere is a type of gambling really.

and so can travelling by car to an event or to catch a flight. All forms of transport have a degree of delay risk but only public transport will even consider refunding (a part of) the fare paid.

 

[trainophile]

and so can travelling by car to an event or to catch a flight. All forms of transport have a degree of delay risk but only public transport will even consider refunding (a part of) the fare paid.

At least in a car you have the possibility of finding a diversion. You're in the lap of the gods in a train!

 

[Hadders]

At least in a car you have the possibility of finding a diversion. You're in the lap of the gods in a train!

Not if you’re at a standstill on a motorway.

I’ve been caught up in motorway delays where we haven’t moved an inch for 1-2 hours. No chance of seeking out an alternative route and no delay repay either