Euston overcrowding

[RailWonderer]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/euston-station-giant-screen-train-departures-adverts-b1199088.html&ved=2ahUKEwiumoec85-KAxXSW0EAHbhzOgMQvOMEKAB6BAgPEAE&usg=AOvVaw0vJ_D93RtuWXEXq8cAGYfT

I knew this would have to happen. The article also states it will turn back on this evening.

The giant screen at Euston station is to be switched back on – but it will display train departure times rather than adverts.
Network Rail, which owns the mainline station, says the screen will turned back on as part of a trial to “provide clearer and more visible travel updates for passengers”.

The five-point plan includes promises to announce departure times for a number of Avanti West Coast long-distance trains up to 20 minutes in advance.

I imagine they will use the sideways boards to display adverts instead of removing them which they should be doing really to ease crowding.

 

[Trackman]

I knew this would have to happen. The article also states it will turn back on this evening.

I imagine they will use the sideways boards to display adverts instead of removing them which they should be doing really to ease crowding.

Seems they have come to sort of arrangement with JCDecaux

 

[nlogax]

Excellent news. I hope while NR are at it the new ones on the concourse get binned.

 

[Trackman]

Excellent news. I hope while NR are at it the new ones on the concourse get binned.

As per post #841 I can imagine them striking a deal with JCDecaux to keep them for advertising. As for the others on the Piazza outside, I don't know...

 

[John R]

Seems they have come to sort of arrangement with JCDecaux

If, as was I believe reported, JCD paid for the screens, or at least had entered into a contract with Network Rail to advertise there for a period of time , then there is no question that there will have had to be a fairly major renegotiation of the contract between them. I would image that JCD will have had the upper hand in those negotiations, given it will have perceived NR had no option but to try and back out of the agreement.

So I suspect one way or another it has cost NR considerably to renegotiate.

 

[Dr Hoo]

If, as was I believe reported, JCD paid for the screens, or at least had entered into a contract with Network Rail to advertise there for a period of time , then there is no question that there will have had to be a fairly major renegotiation of the contract between them. I would image that JCD will have had the upper hand in those negotiations, given it will have perceived NR had no option but to try and back out of the agreement.

So I suspect one way or another it has cost NR considerably to renegotiate.

As I noted in post #567, above, Network Rail income from Major Station advertising was expected to increase by over £100,000,000 in Control Period 7. I imagine that the Euston board was expected to be a significant contributor towards that. Another ‘hole’ for The Taxpayer to fill?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Here's a photo of it from about 20 minutes ago. Main benefit appears to be that it has enough panels unlike the transverse ones, though I think I would add two to four more. But one thing I noticed is that the transverse boards block view of it when you enter from the Tube entrance so they really have to go if we want to restore the old use case, namely that you could, without breaking step, enter from the Tube entrance, see your platform and go to it.

To me it is much clearer to read than the transverse boards which are too pixelated and low resolution.

 

[yorkie]

Here's a photo of it from about 20 minutes ago. Main benefit appears to be that it has enough panels unlike the transverse ones, though I think I would add two to four more. But one thing I noticed is that the transverse boards block view of it when you enter from the Tube entrance so they really have to go if we want to restore the old use case, namely that you could, without breaking step, enter from the Tube entrance, see your platform and go to it.

To me it is much clearer to read than the transverse boards which are too pixelated and low resolution.

Disappointing to see they have removed the TOC name from the London Overground departure (this isn't to get into a debate about the new names; we have a separate thread for that!), unless it's some sort of flashing/scrolling display?

Also calling it the "next service to Watford Junction" is a bit of a stretch; I know what they mean, but it's not the next service if you actually want to go to Watford Junction, and therefore differs with the signage at other stations.

 

[bramling]

Here's a photo of it from about 20 minutes ago. Main benefit appears to be that it has enough panels unlike the transverse ones, though I think I would add two to four more. But one thing I noticed is that the transverse boards block view of it when you enter from the Tube entrance so they really have to go if we want to restore the old use case, namely that you could, without breaking step, enter from the Tube entrance, see your platform and go to it.

To me it is much clearer to read than the transverse boards which are too pixelated and low resolution.

So all this fuss and expense to get to a position where there’s now a departure board that’s almost as good as what was there originally. What a shambles.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Disappointing to see they have removed the TOC name from the London Overground departure

Huh? Clearly says Lioness Line which is the name for that operation. You don't see "London Underground Limited" anywhere on the tube network, not to mention the differing brands across the country. If anything, it would create greater confusion to have "London Overground" up there.

 

[yorkie]

Huh? Clearly says Lioness Line which is the name for that operation. You don't see "London Underground Limited" anywhere on the tube network, not to mention the differing brands across the country. If anything, it would create greater confusion to have "London Overground" up there.

In my opinion, the name of the TOC should always be shown on these departure boards (line names/brand names being optional extras).

Do bear in mind that TOC names are what are shown in journey planners, so any departure board that shows something different is not providing a consistent experience for customers.

I strongly disagree that stating the name of the TOC on a departure board causes confusion.

We will have to agree to disagree!

 

[TheHSRailFan]

I see that the boards back on the main screen are welcomed by a lot... it doesn't fix the problem and the overarching issue, that until the redevelopment of the station for HS2 is announced... Nothing is "fixed". This is just a small plaster to an evergrowing wound.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Do bear in mind that TOC names are what are shown in journey planners, so any departure board that shows something different is not providing a consistent experience for customers.

People using the Overground are typically more familiar with the TfL way of life than NR which I think is a good enough reason to provide a consistent TfL experience, even if that means going against a supposed best practice for what is and what isn't displayed on a national railway board. I do think the idea of displaying the TOC on boards may hold some merit- perhaps a good discussion for a new thread.

 

[hwl]

Do bear in mind that TOC names are what are shown in journey planners, so any departure board that shows something different is not providing a consistent experience for customers.

I generally agree but which journey planner? because TfL's says Lioness line and this is consistent with TfL's journey planner. Most regular users will be using TfL line status page to check if it is working.

TOC sub brands are generally displayed on boards e.g LNR (as seen in the picture above) or GatEx (at Victoria) rather than WMR/GTR. TfL are doing nothing different to what other operators are doing and displaying a sub-brand on the boards at London Terminii as they have done for decades.

 

[xydancer]

Here's a photo of it from about 20 minutes ago. Main benefit appears to be that it has enough panels unlike the transverse ones, though I think I would add two to four more. But one thing I noticed is that the transverse boards block view of it when you enter from the Tube entrance so they really have to go if we want to restore the old use case, namely that you could, without breaking step, enter from the Tube entrance, see your platform and go to it.

To me it is much clearer to read than the transverse boards which are too pixelated and low resolution.

I agree. It is much clearer than the transverse boards. Now all we need is for them to be taken away!

And yes, the WH Smith Bookshop is presently being dismantled. It should help flow to the toilets and platforms 1-3, unless they find another use for the space as they did the old Boots. Much was made of the extra public circulating space iremoving that would create - only for them to use it as a buggy park.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And yes, the WH Smith Bookshop is presently being dismantled. It should help flow to the toilets and platforms 1-3, unless they find another use for the space as they did the old Boots. Much was made of the extra public circulating space iremoving that would create - only for them to use it as a buggy park.

I can't remember when that was done - was it when P17-18 were still in use? These days you only need to pass through there to reach P16 so it makes precious little difference - it very slightly improves access to 12-15 but not significantly. 16 doesn't seem to be particularly heavily used now and the ramp to it is much narrower than the access that way.

With the one they're doing now being on the access to three platforms (1-3) and the toilets (part of the issue being people waiting for other people outside the toilets, which you can't realistically prevent) it will make a big improvement.

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Used Euston yesterday evening when a bit of disruption due to over-running engineering works caused the concourse to get quite crowded, and it was definitely better in terms of people tending towards the middle and thus not blocking the walk through to the exits. However the "old new" boards will definitely have to go, because their presence blocking the "new new" board means you get a bunching outwards further forward which means the Tube side isn't as clear as it could be, plus people do stand in the "tunnel" looking at the "old new" boards still.

I think the removal of the WHS Bookshop/HEMA unit will definitely help flows to 1-3 and the toilets. Another thing that might help is a Tensabarrier queue for the ladies' as the queue when it's busy tends towards 1-3 and so causes obstruction - I also wonder if the old Starbucks unit should be removed so people waiting for others in the toilets can stand there (maybe even add some seating?) instead of blocking the way. The stairs up to the mezzanine on the Tube side are also an issue and I wonder what could be done to relocate access there - could they perhaps be moved to the middle?

As to the board itself adverts would definitely fit at the ends (like they used to), though I think I'd make the board one panel wider and change the arrivals so it shows timetabled and expected times separately and ideally platforms. That would still allow "TV screen" format ads at both ends.

 

[Roy Badami]

Whenever I pass though Euston (usually on the tube, sometimes on NR) I always make a point of looking at the NR departure boards. I'm afraid I'm still regularly seeing Avanti (and to a lesser extent LNR) trains' platforms being called a couple of minutes before scheduled departure, at the departure time, or even after the departure time.

Of course, this is clearly due to late running, but at no point are the trains ever advertised as delayed, let alone an expected departure time being advertised, so people have no idea how much (or how little) time they might be given to get to the platform once it's announced.

I also once recently saw an LNR train showing "preparing" and "wait" (with no platform number) right up until the departure time, upon which the train disappeared from the board. Only a minute or so later, when the platform was finally announced, did the train reappear.

Progress may have been made in the ideal situation where trains are perfectly on time, but I fear there's still much work to be done in terms of dealing with even quite minor late running...

 

[sh24]

WH Smith books has gone as of Tuesday 17th.

 

[modernrail]

Whenever I pass though Euston (usually on the tube, sometimes on NR) I always make a point of looking at the NR departure boards. I'm afraid I'm still regularly seeing Avanti (and to a lesser extent LNR) trains' platforms being called a couple of minutes before scheduled departure, at the departure time, or even after the departure time.

Of course, this is clearly due to late running, but at no point are the trains ever advertised as delayed, let alone an expected departure time being advertised, so people have no idea how much (or how little) time they might be given to get to the platform once it's announced.

I also once recently saw an LNR train showing "preparing" and "wait" (with no platform number) right up until the departure time, upon which the train disappeared from the board. Only a minute or so later, when the platform was finally announced, did the train reappear.

Progress may have been made in the ideal situation where trains are perfectly on time, but I fear there's still much work to be done in terms of dealing with even quite minor late running...

Agreed, the pressure needs to remain on otherwise the joke like management of the station will start quoting fairly unimpressive stats about on the proportion of on time boarding that is happening, nicely covering up what could even be a further deterioration at the other end.

Probably sitting in meetings saying things like, there that should shut the rabble up. They got to board x trains on time. Hopefully they will now pipe down.

Sorry to be cynic, but when it comes to Euston it always feel you have to be purposefully good at being bad to be that bad.

 

[alxndr]

I used Euston for the first time during the day last week, having previously only ever used it for the sleeper or underground,and it wasn’t particularly busy but I still found it horrible and chaotic place. It was a sunny day so plenty of people—myself included—were waiting outside. There’s no clear natural walkways so people are constantly cutting across each other and standing in the way of others. Getting to the gents was a particular struggle (and deeply unpleasant upon arrival, I’ve never known a toilet to smell that bad before!)

The train was called 10 minutes before departure which didn’t feel like a lot when your reserved seat is at the far end of the train. I was one of the first to the platform thanks to RTT but being surrounded by other people hurrying, and one even running down the platform, made me feel as though I had to rush as if the train was just about to depart.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Be interesting to see how many people bother to use the temporary toilets down on platforms 1-3, hopefully Avanti won't keep those barriers shut otherwise what's the point!

We're still being told NR Control have agreed to release Avanti platforms 20 minutes prior to departure and to always have an LNR Birmingham train platform advertised. No idea regarding Trent Valley services, seems they're not part of the current plan of action.

 

[350401]

I used the station today, there were some notable changes. The space where the WH Smith bookshop was, is now open as circulation space and people were using it to wait - it meant less people waiting for a train on the low platforms blocked the corridor. My train to Manchester was called with 20 minutes to spare. Initially there were 2 staff checking all tickets but as I was queuing, their radio went off and they were clearly told to abandon the ticket check. Which given the volume of people waiting to board the train, was sensible. The toilets were just as disgusting as ever. That still needs a lot more work. Still, an improvement compared to my usual trips.

 

[Huntergreed]

Currently in the first class lounge at Euston, it’s extremely busy down on the main concourse. I have a ticket on the 15:39 in Premium, but I have a bad feeling it may be declassified as the previous 2 Scotland via Birmingham trains have been.

Surprised I’ve not seen any serious stampede yet!

Edit: less than 5 minutes later, I’d say over 50% of the crowd has gone. Shows how quickly the situation can change!

 

[yorkie]

I generally agree but which journey planner?

All National Rail journey planners will be showing the TOC name (the only times a brand name is displayed instead is where the brand has been set up as a TOC, e.g. GTR's brand names are done this way, which dates back to the original constituent TOCs never being consolidated).

because TfL's says Lioness line and this is consistent with TfL's journey planner. Most regular users will be using TfL line status page to check if it is working.

TfL like to do their own thing; they aren't interested in conforming with anything else, and don't seem to be nterested in the experiences of a passenger making a longer distance journey that extends well beyond their own network.

TOC sub brands are generally displayed on boards e.g LNR (as seen in the picture above) or GatEx (at Victoria) rather than WMR/GTR.

I am not keen on displaying different information on boards to what journey planners show. GTR at Victoria is a case of following the data, which has brands as separate TOCs, while Euston must be an override, as the TOC is West Midlands Trains (TOC code LM in the data).

TfL are doing nothing different to what other operators are doing and displaying a sub-brand on the boards at London Terminii as they have done for decades.

I agree that what TfL is doing is not completely unique; it is similar to what WMT and Greater Anglia do, but this just causes more confusion.

I have nothing against sub-brand names, but they should be in addition to, and not instead of, the TOC.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

I have nothing against sub-brand names, but they should be in addition to, and not instead of, the TOC.

What benefit would the consumer get from this?

 

[yorkie]

What benefit would the consumer get from this?

From having the TOC they are travelling with displayed?

It can be confusing for passengers as it is by the existence of multiple TOCs, and pricing, conditions, delay policies etc varying by TOC, to then obfuscate the TOC by replacing it with a brand (which may be different to what journey planners show) makes a confusing system even more confusing.

Given various conditions and policies vary depending on the TOC, as well as the point of contact being by TOC, there are various reasons why customers may need to know what TOC they are travelling with.

Whether it should is a separate matter; but given the current industry structure, it does matter!

Edit: I see you did at least partially agree with me that it may hold "some merit" to display the TOC name earlier in the thread:

...I do think the idea of displaying the TOC on boards may hold some merit...

 

[Mike395]

What benefit would the consumer get from this?

Consider this: I've just landed at Birmingham Airport, first-time visitor to the UK. I look at station advertisements prominently advertising Trainline, and buy a ticket from there to my final destination of South Hampstead. Itinerary is given as Avanti to Euston then London Overground to South Hampstead.

On arrival at Euston, I'm met with information overload on the boards, and think 'ah, I know which train operator I'm travelling with, there are a load of logos'... but my train operator 'London Overground' is conspicuous by its absence.

.... see the problem? I'd have to scour an entire mess of screens to find South Hampstead, whereas if the London Overground branding appears alongside the 'Lioness line' sub-brand, I'd be able to find it much more easily.

 

[Bald Rick]

Consider this: I've just landed at Birmingham Airport, first-time visitor to the UK. I look at station advertisements prominently advertising Trainline, and buy a ticket from there to my final destination of South Hampstead. Itinerary is given as Avanti to Euston then London Overground to South Hampstead.

To be fair, If you are first time visitor to the UK, and the S Hampstead area is your final destination, you’ll be flying into a London airport, and once in central London getting the tube to Swiss Cottage!

(But you make a fair point in principle)

 

[Mike395]

To be fair, If you are first time visitor to the UK, and the S Hampstead area is your final destination, you’ll be flying into a London airport, and once in central London getting the tube to Swiss Cottage!

(But you make a fair point in principle)

Haha yes, it was a bit of a spurious example I'll admit, mainly sparked by 'Trainline-ad-overload' last time i used Birmingham airport as a passenger! Someone from outside London (who missed all the rebrand PR) but within the UK arriving at Euston via train (I think you'd be more likely to have noticed the new sub-brands if using the Tube now most of the maps have been updated onboard/at stations) and continuing to LO is perhaps the more realistic example to make the same point...

 

[BRX]

One option would be to treat the overground like the underground on journey planners - the journey leg is labelled "london underground" but then it says "take the victoria line from x to y".