December 2025 East Coast Timetable

[800001]

Rather than Lumo extending their services to Glasgow, as has been suggested it would be better to extend these TPE services to Glasgow creating a regular Glasgow to Newcastle schedule. XC could then drop their remaining Glasgow trains.

That’s would then require more units to operate the service, would TPE be able to have extra units available to operate the extension?

 

[weeklycommuter]

Rather than Lumo extending their services to Glasgow, as has been suggested it would be better to extend these TPE services to Glasgow creating a regular Glasgow to Newcastle schedule. XC could then drop their remaining Glasgow trains.

Lumo train services, including extensions if approved on from Edinburgh to Glasgow Queen Street, are open access train services totally separate to train services operated by the British and Scottish Governments. The Scottish Government runs very frequent ScotRail train services between Edinburgh and Glasgow Queen Street.

 

[Manutd1999]

Rather than Lumo extending their services to Glasgow, as has been suggested it would be better to extend these TPE services to Glasgow creating a regular Glasgow to Newcastle schedule. XC could then drop their remaining Glasgow trains.

I would support this regardless of what Lumo do, ideally running to Queen St instead of one of the Scotrail fast services. As well as NE England to Glasgow, this would also improve cross-Edinburgh connectivity from Dunbar and Berwick to Haymarket, Falkirk etc.

 

[A S Leib]

As much as I'd like to see direct services from York, Leeds and Sheffield to Glasgow improved, Newcastle – Glasgow's 194 passengers per day; York's 57 and neither Central or Queen Street is in the 100 busiest flows from Leeds, so limiting it to Newcastle probably fills the most demand with the least effort (and enables easier changes at Morpeth, Alnmouth, Berwick or Dunbar rather than Edinburgh).

 

[paulmch]

Hmm, I'm surprised that given that there seems to be absolutely no improvement to the Cambridge services; no speed improvements, no frequency improvements for trains people doing en-end would actually use, no earlier/later trains.

The news that all services will be stopping at Cambridge South is very positive - for local journeys the city is effectively getting its own mini-Crossrail!

 

[weeklycommuter]

Rather than Lumo extending their services to Glasgow, as has been suggested it would be better to extend these TPE services to Glasgow creating a regular Glasgow to Newcastle schedule. XC could then drop their remaining Glasgow trains.

That’s would then require more units to operate the service, would TPE be able to have extra units available to operate the extension?

I would support this regardless of what Lumo do, ideally running to Queen St instead of one of the Scotrail fast services. As well as NE England to Glasgow, this would also improve cross-Edinburgh connectivity from Dunbar and Berwick to Haymarket, Falkirk etc.

As much as I'd like to see direct services from York, Leeds and Sheffield to Glasgow improved, Newcastle – Glasgow's 194 passengers per day; York's 57 and neither Central or Queen Street is in the 100 busiest flows from Leeds, so limiting it to Newcastle probably fills the most demand with the least effort (and enables easier changes at Morpeth, Alnmouth, Berwick or Dunbar rather than Edinburgh).

LNER have just ended their daily extensions between Edinburgh and Glasgow Central. XC pre-pandemic ran about eight trains each way every day between Edinburgh and Glasgow Central but now only start one and end two trains a day at Glasgow Central. In view of the very frequent ScotRail train services Edinburgh to and from both Glasgow Central and Glasgow Queen Street which also serve many stations between Edinburgh and Glasgow I doubt it would be worthwhile for any British Government train operator (whether TPE LNER XC or Northern) to run more train services between Edinburgh and Glasgow and I doubt if any British Government train operator would have the available staff or rolling stock to do this.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

LNER have just ended their daily extensions between Edinburgh and Glasgow Central. XC pre-pandemic ran about eight trains each way every day between Edinburgh and Glasgow Central but now only start one and end two trains a day at Glasgow Central. In view of the very frequent ScotRail train services Edinburgh to and from both Glasgow Central and Glasgow Queen Street which also serve many stations between Edinburgh and Glasgow I doubt it would be worthwhile for any British Government train operator (whether TPE LNER XC or Northern) to run more train services between Edinburgh and Glasgow and I doubt if any British Government train operator would have the available staff or rolling stock to do this.

This should incentivise Scotrail to look at adding in additional trains in due course to restore the 15m frequency once they get on top of their crew resourcing issues.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Breaking connections that currently work, and then claiming it is a timetable improvement, is just treating passengers with contempt.

I don't think Skipton is really the priority for those rewriting the entire ECML timetable.

 

[xotGD]

I don't think Skipton is really the priority for those rewriting the entire ECML timetable.

It just demonstrates a lack of joined up thinking. And having an invalid +9 in the Up direction rather than a valid +10 makes it look like a deliberate effort to extend end to end journey times.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Shame the 07:08 Leeds to Aberdeen has gone, personally going to impact me as was amazing for early morning meetings in Durham and Newcastle with good connection from Hallam Line.

Durham seems to be the big loser here up north from what I can see.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Dec 2024 ==

LNER have just ended their daily extensions between Edinburgh and Glasgow Central. XC pre-pandemic ran about eight trains each way every day between Edinburgh and Glasgow Central but now only start one and end two trains a day at Glasgow Central. In view of the very frequent ScotRail train services Edinburgh to and from both Glasgow Central and Glasgow Queen Street which also serve many stations between Edinburgh and Glasgow I doubt it would be worthwhile for any British Government train operator (whether TPE LNER XC or Northern) to run more train services between Edinburgh and Glasgow and I doubt if any British Government train operator would have the available staff or rolling stock to do this.

Latest edition of Modern Railways says Arriva are proposing a 4 daily Sheffield - Leeds - Glasgow train to help relieve capacity on north end of route. But with GBR soon swallowing them not sure it means anything.

 

[Halish Railway]

Latest edition of Modern Railways says Arriva are proposing a 4 daily Sheffield - Leeds - Glasgow train to help relieve capacity on north end of route. But with GBR soon swallowing them not sure it means anything.

I reckon it’s likely that this vision can be carried over, especially given that nowadays their findings are backed up by concrete data.

It’s also not confirmed if this would go via the ECML, given that even further back there was an idea to run a Leeds to Glasgow via Settle service using HSTs. (Link to the now closed discussion)

 

[30907]

It just demonstrates a lack of joined up thinking. And having an invalid +9 in the Up direction rather than a valid +10 makes it look like a deliberate effort to extend end to end journey times.

Looks like a deliberate effort to prioritise Harrogate connections.

I haven't heard of Ilkley passengers complaining about their 34-35min wait for London trains in the present timetable

 

[xotGD]

Looks like a deliberate effort to prioritise Bradford and Harrogate connections.

I haven't heard of Ilkley passengers complaining about their 34-35min wait for London trains in the present timetable.

Residents of Ilkley are generally good at complaining.

The difference is they already have poor connections. Whereas for Airedale the "improvements" result in broken connections and longer journeys to/from London.

 

[thenorthern]

It's sort of odd that they are saying the operator of each service given that GBR will soon take over (apparently).

On the subject of the Newcastle to Edinburgh services we are in the strange situation that LNER, Northern, TPE and Scotrail (sort of) are all owned by the Department for Transport yet the three of them are still entirely separate operationally and don't seem to work well together.

 

[weeklycommuter]

The Department for Transport in Whitehall has no say in ScotRail. ScotRail is run by the Government of Scotland.

 

[Bossworld]

Sorry if I'm completely mis-reading this draft timetable as I'm no expert on any of this, but I don't understand what's become of the Flying Scotsman service? Is the subtext that by making more journeys quicker, there is no longer a need for the titular service?

https://ecmltimetable.info/assets/timetable-extracts/1.%202025%20ECML%20Long%20Distance%20SX.pdf

Page 26

At the minute, if I'm travelling down to KGX from NCL on a weekday morning, I take one of:

06:55 (if the 07:04 has been cancelled, and I still need to be there urgently)
07:04 (FS - if I've got the money for it, and it's definitely running)
07:30 (if I've not got the money for the FS, or if I've had overnight notice that the 07:04 is off).

Whereas if I'm reading the new timetable right:

• The closest to the 07:04 fast service now leaves EDB at 05:37 (not 05:40)
• Leaves Newcastle at 07:01
• Additionally calls at York, dep 07:56
• Now arrives into KGX at 09a50 (unsure what the 'a' means, if not 'arrival'), rather than 09:40

Is the FS service likely to be added in or changed nearer to Dec 25?

That said, in the opposite direction, the 19:30 no longer stopping at lots of places makes the commute home a bit less tiring than the current 20:00 (though reduces post-work pub time!)

 

[hexagon789]

Sorry if I'm completely mis-reading this draft timetable as I'm no expert on any of this, but I don't understand what's become of the Flying Scotsman service? Is the subtext that by making more journeys quicker, there is no longer a need for the titular service?

https://ecmltimetable.info/assets/timetable-extracts/1.%202025%20ECML%20Long%20Distance%20SX.pdf

Page 26

At the minute, if I'm travelling down to KGX from NCL on a weekday morning, I take one of:

06:55 (if the 07:04 has been cancelled, and I still need to be there urgently)
07:04 (FS - if I've got the money for it, and it's definitely running)
07:30 (if I've not got the money for the FS, or if I've had overnight notice that the 07:04 is off).

Whereas if I'm reading the new timetable right:

• The closest to the 07:04 fast service now leaves EDB at 05:37 (not 05:40)
• Leaves Newcastle at 07:01
• Additionally calls at York, dep 07:56
• Now arrives into KGX at 09a50 (unsure what the 'a' means), rather than 09:40

Is the FS service likely to be added in or changed nearer to Dec 25?

That said, in the opposite direction, the 19:30 no longer stopping at lots of places makes the commute home a bit less tiring than the current 20:00 (though reduces post-work pub time!)

No idea about the name being added, but the 0537 (0540 currently) Edinburgh to London deliberately calls at York now to homogenise the stopping pattern.

Whether it'll keep the name has not been stated anywhere that I've seen.

 

[Bossworld]

No idea about the name being added, but the 0537 (0540 currently) Edinburgh to London deliberately calls at York now to homogenise the stopping pattern.

Whether it'll keep the name has not been stated anywhere that I've seen.

Cheers. Damn, there goes most chance of being in The City by 10am then, was always a bit of a close shave even if the Flying Scotsman was on time into KGX! (I'm constrained by the Tyne and Wear metro and the ~5:30am services from the coast into town frequently don't run). Appreciate that's a 'me' problem though and curious to see what these timetable improvements look like in reality.

 

[hexagon789]

Cheers. Damn, there goes most chance of being in The City by 10am then, was always a bit of a close shave even if the Flying Scotsman was on time into KGX! (I'm constrained by the Tyne and Wear metro and the ~5:30am services from the coast into town frequently don't run).

Given it made its 4-hour schedule less than 3% of the time (38% within 5 mins) over the previous 12 weeks, the extension to 4h13 with the addition of a York stop may at least mean the advertised arrival time can be relied on a bit more!

 

[ainsworth74]

Cheers. Damn, there goes most chance of being in The City by 10am then, was always a bit of a close shave even if the Flying Scotsman was on time into KGX! (I'm constrained by the Tyne and Wear metro and the ~5:30am services from the coast into town frequently don't run).

It's kinda a swings and roundabouts situation. The FS is slowed down but the quid pro-quo is that there will now be an hourly London - Edinburgh service which only calls at Newcastle and York all day long delivering a fairly significant journey time improvement to many services at the cost of one. Obviously that doesn't help you in your particular circumstances but there is some logic to it!

 

[Bossworld]

That made me smile @hexagon789 - it's absolute pot luck but when it works, it works extremely well in its current format.

To your point though, I've had plenty of times I've either been

• ~25 mins delayed.
• Getting there to find it's cancelled and getting the 06:55 instead, arriving 10:02 and still being ineligible for delay repay (based on my understanding of the rules and being 22 mins late vs. my planned journey)
• Or still waking up at daft o'clock, then realising the 07:04 is off, and getting the 07:30 with a few quid for delay repay, but being both bleary eyed and still an hour late for work

Can't complain that much, I still find it incredible I can be in the capital within ~3 hours of being in NCL.

I've mapped out what I think these new journeys look like for me in Excel, can I just check that I'm not missing anything obvious and that the KGX arrival times are the correct estimates? The only reason I ask is this use of 'a' instead of a colon, but guess that's because it says 'departure' alongside KGX rather than arrival?

Edit: came up on social media, FS name being retained for 5:37 but journey now 13 minutes longer on paper https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tra...sman-edinburgh-kings-cross-lner-b1201262.html

 

[Segedunum]

I commuted most Fridays for 18 months on the 0704 Newcastle to London and punctuality was usually poor. 10+ minutes late was fairly normal - never extreme enough to warrant Delay Repay but a 09:40 arrival was pretty fanciful. If the extra York stop and the 09:51 arrival are more realistic - then so be it. It was quite normal to get south of Peterborough and become snarled up by various GN/TL services.

It was also exceptionally rare for a TM to comment on such delays - you'd usually just be late and like it! I did wonder if this was because such delays were common so it never merited an announcement unless something truly notable happened.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Residents of Ilkley are generally good at complaining.

I think you could say that for most of West Yorkshire!

 

[D6130]

I think you could say that for most of West Yorkshire!

I would think that the inhabitants of Ilkley - along with those of its fellow spa town of Harrogate in North Yorkshire - probably complain more eloquently than those of many other places in the region.

 

[Killingworth]

I would think that the inhabitants of Ilkley - along with those of its fellow spa town of Harrogate in North Yorkshire - probably complain more eloquently than those of many other places in the region.

Calder Valley are quite outspoken too! And Barnsley.

 

[Alnmouth2024]

The planned timetable has the 0810 from Alnmouth to Newcastle and the 1734 from Newcastle to Alnmouth no longer stopping at Alnmouth. These are cross country services and both trains would still be running through Alnmouth, just not stopping. People locally are just waking up to these proposed changes and as they are the key commuter services, they are absolutely critical to the success of the station. My question is what could the possible justification for these changes be? The trains are always busy but not hugely overcrowded into/out of Newcastle and I can't see any logic to it all all!

 

[IanXC]

Looks like a deliberate effort to prioritise Harrogate connections.

I haven't heard of Ilkley passengers complaining about their 34-35min wait for London trains in the present timetable

I don't think it has anything to do with that. In order to fit the Leeds to Sheffield Northern semi fast in, and to keep the fit with all the other services around, the LNER departures from Leeds are 5 minutes earlier. That means that sectional running times for HSTs can be reduced to Azuma/91 without needing to reschedule half of the country.

Separately the timetable on the Harrogate line, which is of course constrained by the various single line sections as well as getting in and out of York, is being considered for alterations to improve its own timekeeping.

Given the frequency of the services mentioned I can't imagine that connections at Leeds form part of the decision making. You're always going to improve some connections and worsen others, so where half hourly services are involved you'd end up having the tail wagging the dog if you paid too much attention to connections.

 

[Killingworth]

The planned timetable has the 0810 from Alnmouth to Newcastle and the 1734 from Newcastle to Alnmouth no longer stopping at Alnmouth. These are cross country services and both trains would still be running through Alnmouth, just not stopping. People locally are just waking up to these proposed changes and as they are the key commuter services, they are absolutely critical to the success of the station. My question is what could the possible justification for these changes be? The trains are always busy but not hugely overcrowded into/out of Newcastle and I can't see any logic to it all all!

Myopic ignorance of the value of smaller stations and fear of another 3 minutes delay to longer distance timings. Failure to check finer details before releasing good news stories to the wider world. Those two trains are vital for North Northumberland and helped to fill both car parks at Alnmouth pre-Covid.

It may just be a clerical error - let's hope it is and a stop is confirmed by XC - or another operator within 10-15 minutes.

 

[Halish Railway]

I don't think it has anything to do with that. In order to fit the Leeds to Sheffield Northern semi fast in, and to keep the fit with all the other services around, the LNER departures from Leeds are 5 minutes earlier. That means that sectional running times for HSTs can be reduced to Azuma/91 without needing to reschedule half of the country.

And there's the advantage of the first train from Leeds to Wakefield Westgate after a gap in service (xx:48 to xx:10/xx:11) being worked by a long LNER service rather than a Voyager, which creates another incentive for passengers making local journeys to not travel on shorter CrossCountry services. The changes being introduced in December 2025, as well as the recent addition of the hourly Manchester to York service means that Wakefield has been a massive beneficiary of recent and forthcoming timetable changes, especially with regards to medium-distance journey opportunities.

 

[JRT]

A few points about the trains running via Leeds from December 2025, as noted in the timetable.
Apart from the 06:30, all Bradford Forster Square – London v/v services will be on the opposite hour to the present & May 2025 services, the same applying to the Harrogates.
No trains calling at Grantham, as this stop is transferred to the Leeds – London service.