Unable to use card to collect tickets from machine

[ianBR]

I am unable to use my Amex card to collect tickets from southern ticket machines at Brighton.

It lets me go through the whole process of inserting the card, providing the ticket reference number and selecting the tickets to print…. before then saying “this card can not be used to collect tickets”

What would cause this? There is no problem with the card which works everywhere else. It is highly annoying to then almost miss a train by having to queue up at the ticket office. The ticket office told me they have that issue when people books through Trainline but I don’t use them.

Also do southern allow other cards to be used (and why don’t all train operators just allow any card with the right name to be used - it’s such an unnecessary extra restriction on what is already a painful collection process)

 

[Flying Snail]

Is it the same card and the same card number you used to purchase with?

 

[Adam Williams]

The ticket office told me they have that issue when people books through Trainline but I don’t use them.

Brighton ticket office staff making stuff up again, who'd have thought

 

[OscarH]

Did it by any chance say "remove card" immediately after entering it, rather than spend some time saying processing or anything?

The S&B TVMs they have there (and at a large portion of the country) have absolutely garbage card readers that very frequently just fail to read the card. And then in a wonderful UX choice, they decided that at that point when they already know the card has failed to read, they still make you enter the CTR before showing the (completely misleading) error. Bonus points for even failing any-card-collection bookings at this point as well. Anecdotal, and may just be bad luck, but the failure rate does seem worse to me with Amex.

Who did you buy from? If they're one of the people we know sets everything to any-card-collection then we can confirm for sure it was the TVM acting up.

 

[ianBR]

Yes it’s the issue whereby it says remove card immediately. That’s good to know it’s the card reader then and presumably I just need to try another machine

Whoever designs these machines needs sacking. If you know the card hasn’t been read why on earth would you make people go through the whole transaction before displaying the error. You couldn’t make it up!!

I’ve had the issue both with tickets bought from Uber and thameslink.

I also don’t really understand why the machines even require a card when ticket offices just hand the tickets out with the reference number alone without asking for any ID or card.

 

[Haywain]

I also don’t really understand why the machines even require a card when ticket offices just hand the tickets out with the reference number alone without asking for any ID or card.

Because they are doing what they were required to do to achieve accreditation. This has, very recently, been revised but S&B haven't made the relevant changes yet (and, based on recent experience, they are not alone in that).

 

[Adam Williams]

Is May 2023 "very recently", or do we just have low standards when it comes to firmware updates for embedded devices?

 

[MrJeeves]

It lets me go through the whole process of inserting the card, providing the ticket reference number and selecting the tickets to print…. before then saying “this card can not be used to collect tickets”

Trying again (usually forcefully pushing the card in very quickly) gets it working for me. Very frustrating. Saw it happening at Burgess Hill this morning when I was in a queue to collect some tickets myself.

Is May 2023 "very recently", or do we just have low standards when it comes to firmware updates for embedded devices?

To be fair, some S&B TVMs are updated (at least GWR and SWR). I wouldn't be surprised if some other TOCs with their TVMs didn't want to spend the money for an update.

 

[OscarH]

To be fair, some S&B TVMs are updated (at least GWR and SWR). I wouldn't be surprised if some other TOCs with their TVMs didn't want to spend the money for an update

Not particularly impressive, they only made an effort to fix it when their hand was forced, they ignored it while it was only recommended (required for new entrants only). Given it's an accreditation requirement to change, it would seem harsh to charge for it.

And they've made no effort to fix the sad path UX for years.

 

[Haywain]

Is May 2023 "very recently", or do we just have low standards when it comes to firmware updates for embedded devices?

I only became aware of the change a few weeks ago, so not unreasonably assumed it to be a recent change.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Dec 2024 ==

And they've made no effort to fix the sad path UX for years.

They were developing an alternative UI two or three years ago but I guess their existing customers haven't chosen to go down that road.

 

[Adam Williams]

I only became aware of the change a few weeks ago, so not unreasonably assumed it to be a recent change.

No, that's fair enough. I believe May '23 was when the fares & retail delivery group made the recommendation, so the writing on the wall should've been clear to everyone at that point. I think actually enforcing it against existing suppliers with established kit out in the field is more recent.

 

[Weary Walker]

I recently had this situation using an AMEX card at Milton Keynes, the solution the ticket office provided was that instead of inserting the card, at that point in the process tap it on the contactless card reader.
This has worked each time since.

 

[MrJeeves]

I recently had this situation using an AMEX card at Milton Keynes, the solution the ticket office provided was that instead of inserting the card, at that point in the process tap it on the contactless card reader.
This has worked each time since.

GTR machines also don't yet support contactless for ToD collection.

 

[Hadders]

Three of the six TVMs at Stevenage station have issues printing ToD. It's affecting all cards, not just AMEX. You insert your card and it almost immediately says 'Termination of Vending Process' - you don't even get to the screen that asks you to input the ToD reference.

I've demonstrated the issue to station staff who showed little interest in getting it reported. Their suggestion was for me to tweet GTR!

I contacted GTR customer services last week and am awaiting a response.....

 

[BlueLeanie]

I am unable to use my Amex card to collect tickets from southern ticket machines at Brighton.

It lets me go through the whole process of inserting the card, providing the ticket reference number and selecting the tickets to print…. before then saying “this card can not be used to collect tickets”

What would cause this? There is no problem with the card which works everywhere else. It is highly annoying to then almost miss a train by having to queue up at the ticket office. The ticket office told me they have that issue when people books through Trainline but I don’t use them.

Also do southern allow other cards to be used (and why don’t all train operators just allow any card with the right name to be used - it’s such an unnecessary extra restriction on what is already a painful collection process)

When you say the card works everywhere else, do you use the magnetic strip anywhere else?

I've got a feeling that the ticket collection process reads the card number from the heritage track rather than the chip. Hence the swift "in and out" presentation. It's one of the rare situations left where this still happens.

This could simply be the strip has been corrupted by a magnet nearby.

 

[[.n]]

Also do southern allow other cards to be used (and why don’t all train operators just allow any card with the right name to be used - it’s such an unnecessary extra restriction on what is already a painful collection process)

If this helps I used Southern last week to buy a ticket for TOD - the email said use any card to collect.

Ticket Collection​

In 5 minutes your ticket(s) will be ready for collection from <my station name removed by me>, or any other station where ticket collection facilities are available.

To collect your tickets from a ticket machine you will need both your collection reference <my ticket reference removed by me> and any credit or debit card with a magnetic strip.

However the (SWR) ticket machine I used for TOD only required a collection reference - no card at all

 

[Bungle965]

However the (SWR) ticket machine I used for TOD only required a collection reference - no card at all

I have a feeling most, if not all S&Bs TOCs

 

[MrJeeves]

I have a feeling most, if not all S&Bs TOCs

No GTR machines yet, nor any of the EMR ones I tried at St Pancras, unfortunately.

 

[Bungle965]

No GTR machines yet, nor any of the EMR ones I tried at St Pancras, unfortunately.

I wonder if that is due to the version they’re on, from recollection they’re on earlier S&B software than other TOCs.

 

[MrJeeves]

I wonder if that is due to the version they’re on, from recollection they’re on earlier S&B software than other TOCs.

Yeah, it's exactly that, frustratingly.

 

[ianBR]

I’ve since realised that if you force the card in really hard it does usually work.

The obvious solution would be to immediately give an error saying card could not be read. People would then know to try again.

Letting people go all the way through to say the card can not be used is just a ridiculous process and a ridiculous error message. Don’t people test these systems before releasing them to the public. I could design a better user friendly interface myself and I have zero UX skills

 

[Hadders]

I’ve since realised that if you force the card in really hard it does usually work.

That sometimes does work but not at Stevenage. It simply comes up 'Termination of Vending Process' as sonn as you insert a card.

 

[8ace]

Have this issue frequently with AMEX at PRP/BTN, now if it reads the card "too quick" I know it's not gonna work and cancel and use another card. Just irritating and time consuming, especially before a realised what was happening and enter the booking code as well. On the subject of the ToD UX, what is the point of the "print all tickets" now button - why would you want to do anything else?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

On the subject of the ToD UX, what is the point of the "print all tickets" now button - why would you want to do anything else?

To make sure that you're printing off the right order (i.e. that you have entered the right code)? I can imagine being in the position of having separate codes for the tickets for today's commute on the one hand and for next weekend's jaunt on the other.

 

[dubscottie]

AMEX is pulling out the EU for personal customers so that could be an issue. Irishrail and most shops will no longer accept American Express.
Not sure if its the same in the UK. Fees for retailers are ridiculous apparently.

 

[BazingaTribe]

AMEX is pulling out the EU for personal customers so that could be an issue. Irishrail and most shops will no longer accept American Express.
Not sure if its the same in the UK. Fees for retailers are ridiculous apparently.

I saw No AMEX signs in a local gastropub on Monday.

 

[BlueLeanie]

AMEX is pulling out the EU for personal customers so that could be an issue. Irishrail and most shops will no longer accept American Express.
Not sure if its the same in the UK. Fees for retailers are ridiculous apparently.

Amex has withdrawn from issuing cards on Isle of Man and the Channel Islands as the burden of legislation for a tiny cohort of customers is excessive. Card acceptance continues.

These days the difference between accepting Amex, MasterCard, and Visa is very narrow if anything for retailers. Certainly considerably less than processing cash (usually around £2.50/£100 deposited) plus £15/hour queuing time at the bank or post office. For cash deliveries to premises, pay around £12 per sack (eg £12 per £20 sack of pennies).

 

[Fawkes Cat]

AMEX is pulling out the EU for personal customers so that could be an issue. Irishrail and most shops will no longer accept American Express.
Not sure if its the same in the UK. Fees for retailers are ridiculous apparently.

While I understand Amex's fees to be high (so bad for merchants) Money Saving Expert regularly mentions their sign-up offers to be good (for the end customer at least) which would suggest that they haven't given up on the UK market just yet.