Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[DanNCL]

This is slightly off topic, but Tyne and Wear have just put their need Class 555s onto their first passenger diagram.

Anyone want to bet if by the time these 46 units are rolled out, the 701s won’t even be half way to that number, let alone all 90

If Tyne & Wear do a Merseyrail they will rush unreliable Stadler units into service and withdraw serviceable replacements prematurely!

To be fair I don’t think the old units could be any less reliable. But that’s a topic for another thread

Unsure of number, but far less than half the 555s are here.

@DanNCL may know how many are built, here etc

To avoid dragging the thread off topic I’ll attempt to answer these whilst still keeping it relevant to the 701s.

I think it’s a good indicator of just how bad the 701 rollout has been, that a fleet not even ordered by the time the 701s should have been in service is now in limited service whilst the 701s are still only in limited service themselves.

13 555s are here, just over a quarter of them. Another quarter are complete but can’t be delivered until more of the old Metro fleet is disposed of. So on that aspect the 701s are ahead.

As for reliability, the 555s can be almost as unreliable as they like, an MTIN of just 1000 would be enough to make them more reliable than what they’re replacing. Neither the 701s nor 777s had that advantage as the BREL units being replaced are/were still somewhat reliable.

It genuinely wouldn’t surprise me if all 46 555s were in service before all of the 701s were.

 

[43066]

To avoid dragging the thread off topic I’ll attempt to answer these whilst still keeping it relevant to the 701s.

I think it’s a good indicator of just how bad the 701 rollout has been, that a fleet not even ordered by the time the 701s should have been in service is now in limited service whilst the 701s are still only in limited service themselves.

13 555s are here, just over a quarter of them. Another quarter are complete but can’t be delivered until more of the old Metro fleet is disposed of. So on that aspect the 701s are ahead.

As for reliability, the 555s can be almost as unreliable as they like, an MTIN of just 1000 would be enough to make them more reliable than what they’re replacing. Neither the 701s nor 777s had that advantage as the BREL units being replaced are/were still somewhat reliable.

It genuinely wouldn’t surprise me if all 46 555s were in service before all of the 701s were.

That does put things into perspective, thanks. Pretty embarrassing really!

 

[Goldfish62]

To avoid dragging the thread off topic I’ll attempt to answer these whilst still keeping it relevant to the 701s.

I think it’s a good indicator of just how bad the 701 rollout has been, that a fleet not even ordered by the time the 701s should have been in service is now in limited service whilst the 701s are still only in limited service themselves.

13 555s are here, just over a quarter of them. Another quarter are complete but can’t be delivered until more of the old Metro fleet is disposed of. So on that aspect the 701s are ahead.

As for reliability, the 555s can be almost as unreliable as they like, an MTIN of just 1000 would be enough to make them more reliable than what they’re replacing. Neither the 701s nor 777s had that advantage as the BREL units being replaced are/were still somewhat reliable.

It genuinely wouldn’t surprise me if all 46 555s were in service before all of the 701s were.

The saga of the 701 introduction has been absolutely done to death over the past few years. It's boring now. Time to focus on the continuing rollout, which *should* speed up now that the length of driver training has been cut by 40%.

We shall have to see.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Few observations on 2 701s I’ve been on this evening:
1. The screens by the doors seem to try to be showing something different. It’s two rectangle/square spaces, both blank. It cycles between this and the usual display of the time and the SWR logo. I assume this is in preporation for some update where the screen will finally show something useful

2. On the outside PIS, the car number no longer scrolls (thankfully)
3. The announcements now say "welcome aboard this service..." rather than "welcome aboard this south western railway service"
4. The announcements are still very buggy. They sometimes repeat the same line 3 or so times

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Few observations on 2 701s I’ve been on this evening:
1. The screens by the doors seem to try to be showing something different. It’s two rectangle/square spaces, both blank. It cycles between this and the usual display of the time and the SWR logo. I assume this is in preporation for some update where the screen will finally show something useful
View attachment 171204
2. On the outside PIS, the car number no longer scrolls (thankfully)
3. The announcements now say "welcome aboard this service..." rather than "welcome aboard this south western railway service"
4. The announcements are still very buggy. They sometimes repeat the same line 3 or so times

That seems… backwards?
I’m not sure why they haven’t just loaded the Elinor package yet.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

I’m not sure why they haven’t just loaded the Elinor package yet.

Yeah not sure either. It's strange that the newest train has the old Celia voice.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Six out yeserday, but only three this morning. Two diagrams cancelled and the Surbiton service run by a single 458/5

 

[Goldfish62]

Six out yeserday, but only three this morning. Two diagrams cancelled and the Surbiton service run by a single 458/5

There was hardly any Ascot - Aldershot service yesterday evening due to staff shortages.

 

[WrongRoad]

The saga of the 701 introduction has been absolutely done to death over the past few years. It's boring now. Time to focus on the continuing rollout, which *should* speed up now that the length of driver training has been cut by 40%.

We shall have to see.

You can have all the drivers trained on 701’s, the basic fact is the 701 units still have many faults that need to be rectified before they can enter service and apparently we are still along way from that happening.

 

[Goldfish62]

You can have all the drivers trained on 701’s, the basic fact is the 701 units still have many faults that need to be rectified before they can enter service and apparently we are still along way from that happening.

You are aware they are in passenger service? I travel on them quite regularly.

And what are Alstom, Rock Rail and SWR doing if they're not getting the rest of the fleet fit for service? Not sitting their twiddling their thumbs surely?

 

[3973EXL]

701045

Realtime Trains | 5Q87 0920 Eastleigh Trsmd to Worcester T.C. | 19/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q87 0920 departure from Eastleigh Trsmd to Worcester T.C. on 19/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[mansonlo49]

You can have all the drivers trained on 701’s, the basic fact is the 701 units still have many faults that need to be rectified before they can enter service and apparently we are still along way from that happening.

If is there a fault on them they wouldn’t be serving already for nearly a year then?

 

[swtrains]

Few observations on 2 701s I’ve been on this evening:
1. The screens by the doors seem to try to be showing something different. It’s two rectangle/square spaces, both blank. It cycles between this and the usual display of the time and the SWR logo. I assume this is in preporation for some update where the screen will finally show something useful
View attachment 171204
2. On the outside PIS, the car number no longer scrolls (thankfully)
3. The announcements now say "welcome aboard this service..." rather than "welcome aboard this south western railway service"
4. The announcements are still very buggy. They sometimes repeat the same line 3 or so times

No 2 is an achievement in itself haha

 

[Goldfish62]

If is there a fault on them they wouldn’t be serving already for nearly a year then?

Quite.

The fact is, as has been pointed out many times now, if you waited for all faults to be ironed out no new train would ever enter service.

 

[43066]

You are aware they are in passenger service? I travel on them quite regularly.

And what are Alstom, Rock Rail and SWR doing if they're not getting the rest of the fleet fit for service? Not sitting their twiddling their thumbs surely?

I wonder to what extent the long period in warm storage is causing issues when they’re brought into service.

 

[Goldfish62]

I wonder to what extent the long period in warm storage is causing issues when they’re brought into service.

Probably why lower numbered units haven't entered service yet. 017 is the lowest one so far and all the ones not yet entered service but moving around the network on commissioning runs are higher numbers.

As has already been established SWR don't need all the units to run the current service so maybe it'll even be the case that the lower numbered units remain in store until a use is found for them either at SWR or elsewhere, just as GA are looking to farm out 20 of their 720s.

 

[WrongRoad]

If is there a fault on them they wouldn’t be serving already for nearly a year then?

Because not all the units are having the same fault, and many are having intermittent faults that are harder to find and rectify.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2024 ==

You are aware they are in passenger service? I travel on them quite regularly.

And what are Alstom, Rock Rail and SWR doing if they're not getting the rest of the fleet fit for service? Not sitting their twiddling their thumbs surely?

5 are in service out of 90+ units

 

[Invincible]

Good article - cataloguing all the issues, and asking the mgmt about missed deadlines & future plans to which typically Hendy is evasive. SWR quoted as:
“We are doing this in phases. We expect the total rollout over the next couple of years. We haven’t got a firm date beyond the ten trains announced today. I don’t want to promise customers new trains without a full programme.”

So they will concentrate on getting the next ten trains tested and in service?
In the BBC clip it was Stuart Meek, Chief Operating Officer and acting MD at South Western Railway who said this, presumably he will be there until at least April, and could stay when the railway moves to new ownership?

 

[NSEWonderer]

There will be more faults and issues as more units come out into active service, test track testing and even route testing won't always produce the faults that are sweated out with actual passenger running as was seen with the 345s and other units(to varying degrees of course).

These eventually will get fixed and applied to the rest of the fleet like the few that have been found with the current running pool of units.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Because not all the units are having the same fault, and many are having intermittent faults that are harder to find and rectify.

Thought this was a problem back in the 2021-2023 era and was sorted

 

[Snow1964]

I wonder to what extent the long period in warm storage is causing issues when they’re brought into service.

If they are in warm storage (rather than regular storage) then in theory nothing. Warm storage should be no different to leaving them parked in a siding at back of depot for a few days.

Of course if the warm storage is more luke warm than proper warm, then you have possibility of parts seizing up, moisture infiltration, mustiness etc

 

[Peter Sarf]

I wonder to what extent the long period in warm storage is causing issues when they’re brought into service.

I would have called the storage "cold storage". Many 701s have been kept at Long Marston and Marchwood. So away from a power supply and out in the open - surely that is not "warm storage" ?. Regardless of the name for the storage you are right - the prolonged lack of use, power and cover must be having a detrimental effect on the vast majority of 701s.

 

[MotCO]

Probably why lower numbered units haven't entered service yet. 017 is the lowest one so far and all the ones not yet entered service but moving around the network on commissioning runs are higher numbers.

Have all units been upgraded to the same standard, or did some of the later ones (maybe 017 upwards) have some modifications from new which have not been updated on the first 16?

 

[gmaguire]

I saw 701017 this morning around 0710. The external displays said Not In Service but it appeared to be in service. I think it was this

Realtime Trains | 0608 Staines to London Waterloo | 19/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 0608 departure from Staines to London Waterloo on 19/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This service was cancelled between Windsor & Eton Riverside and Stainesdue to a problem with the train (M8)

 

[wickham]

5Q87 0920 Eastleigh to Long Marston appears to have run today (19/12) hauled by 57310, but according to RTT is seems to have terminated at Worcester. Can anyone confirm what unit was conveyed and did it terminate short?

 

[800001]

5Q87 0920 Eastleigh to Long Marston appears to have run today (19/12) hauled by 57310, but according to RTT is seems to have terminated at Worcester. Can anyone confirm what unit was conveyed and did it terminate short?

Unit was 701045, can’t say where it ended up.

 

[3973EXL]

5Q87 0920 Eastleigh to Long Marston appears to have run today (19/12) hauled by 57310, but according to RTT is seems to have terminated at Worcester. Can anyone confirm what unit was conveyed and did it terminate short?

701045

Realtime Trains | 5Q87 0920 Eastleigh Trsmd to Worcester T.C. | 19/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q87 0920 departure from Eastleigh Trsmd to Worcester T.C. on 19/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

shown in Worcester yard on Traksy

 

[Goldfish62]

There will be more faults and issues as more units come out into active service, test track testing and even route testing won't always produce the faults that are sweated out with actual passenger running as was seen with the 345s and other units(to varying degrees of course).

These eventually will get fixed and applied to the rest of the fleet like the few that have been found with the current running pool of units.

Well yes. The 345s entered service with a huge amount of faults and very poor reliability, as related to me by a friend who works on them. This continued when services were introduced on the Central Operating Section, initially causing a lot of issues, but it eventually got sorted. Not that they appear to be the most reliable of trains now.

 

[D365]

As has already been established SWR don't need all the units to run the current service so maybe it'll even be the case that the lower numbered units remain in store until a use is found for them either at SWR or elsewhere, just as GA are looking to farm out 20 of their 720s.

The five car 701s will be ’deprioritised’.

 

[wickham]

Many thanks all especially 3973EXL, my appologies as I somehow missed your post 11412 giving part of the answer to my query about today's Eastleigh-Long Marston.
I had better go to Specsavers.........
I find it surpriseing that 701 units are still being sent away "off patch" when they are supposedly currently entering service. My probably synical thinking is that the Long Marston storeage rates are cheaper that those charged by Arrival Traincare Eastleigh, but then again it must cost "big bucks" to move these units around. ROG, GBRf and the other operators charge the going rate, they don't do it out of the goodness of their hearts, AND there is also the minor point of Tack Access Charges - I would not like to pay them !