Penalty fare notice - should I appeal?

[BNS_ Simon]

Hi

I bought a ticket on the train as I was rushing on and trying to complete some work, by the time I went to buy the ticket, the only station I could choose was one station stop before Birmingham New Street (due to the online system not allowing to pick previous stations). When i got off the train there were inspectors before the barriers, on seeing my ticket on the phone, started aggressively interrogating me whether I really got on the station 1 stop away from New Street.

Under pressure I said yes, they asked why the ticket hadn't scanned there, was there barriers, did you go up the stairs or down to get to platform etc. (they were trying to catch me out as there are no barriers at that station) I answered I just went through, they accused me of lying but issued me a Penalty Notice Fare, which states "No Ticket", even though I did have a ticket.

My queries:

- If I appeal will they check CCTV to see whether I boarded at the said station? As I do have a valid ticket albeit a short journey.
- On investigation could they prosecute for short journey or would they just revert back to the penalty notice?
- Does being issued a penalty notice mean there's no risk of prosecution?

Thank you

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi

I bought a ticket on the train as I was rushing on and trying to complete some work, by the time I went to buy the ticket, the only station I could choose was one station stop before Birmingham New Street (due to the online system not allowing to pick previous stations). When i got off the train there were inspectors before the barriers, on seeing my ticket on the phone, started aggressively interrogating me whether I really got on the station 1 stop away from New Street.

Under pressure I said yes, they asked why the ticket hadn't scanned there, was there barriers, did you go up the stairs or down to get to platform etc. (they were trying to catch me out as there are no barriers at that station) I answered I just went through, they accused me of lying but issued me a Penalty Notice Fare, which states "No Ticket", even though I did have a ticket.

My queries:

- If I appeal will they check CCTV to see whether I boarded at the said station? As I do have a valid ticket albeit a short journey.
- On investigation could they prosecute for short journey or would they just revert back to the penalty notice?
- Does being issued a penalty notice mean there's no risk of prosecution?

Thank you

No way do you want to attract any attention to yourself for what is short faring seen as a deliberate form of fare evasion.

I would pay the Penalty Fare and keep your head down. As such I would not appeal.

On what basis would you appeal anyway?

You are required to have a fully valid ticket before you board a train. They can and do prosecute people who don’t do that. In my opinion you have been lucky.

 

[Lewisham2221]

You are required to purchase a ticket before boarding, unless ticket purchasing facilities do not exist at the station where you board. As you were purchasing the ticket on your phone, there is no acceptable reason why you couldn't have purchased a ticket before boarding the train (this is why you were unable to purchase a ticket for the correct time and station once you were already onboard).

The revenue inspectors were not "trying to catch you out" or "accusing you of lying" - for a start you were lying. People buying a ticket from the station before New Street, rather than where they actually travelled from, is something that revenue staff at New Street will be very familiar with.

Pay your penalty fare and don't do it again.

 

[reb0118]

For the avoidance of doubt a ticket only covering a part of your journey would not be considered a valid ticket*. You are generally treated as holding no ticket in those circumstances.

If you have been issued with a penalty fare then the advice is to pay it tout suite.

In general a penalty fare that is paid closes the matter and no further action would be taken.

*NB, I am not considering split ticketing here so as not to confuse matters.

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi

I bought a ticket on the train as I was rushing on and trying to complete some work, by the time I went to buy the ticket, the only station I could choose was one station stop before Birmingham New Street (due to the online system not allowing to pick previous stations). When i got off the train there were inspectors before the barriers, on seeing my ticket on the phone, started aggressively interrogating me whether I really got on the station 1 stop away from New Street.

Under pressure I said yes, they asked why the ticket hadn't scanned there, was there barriers, did you go up the stairs or down to get to platform etc. (they were trying to catch me out as there are no barriers at that station) I answered I just went through, they accused me of lying but issued me a Penalty Notice Fare, which states "No Ticket", even though I did have a ticket.

My queries:

- If I appeal will they check CCTV to see whether I boarded at the said station? As I do have a valid ticket albeit a short journey.
- On investigation could they prosecute for short journey or would they just revert back to the penalty notice?
- Does being issued a penalty notice mean there's no risk of prosecution?

Thank you

I don’t advise you appeal this. The company could in theory withdraw the Penalty Fare and start proceedings in the magistrates’ court against you for either a Bylaw or Regulation of Railways Act offence.

You’ve been caught clearly and obviously short faring and by far the nearest way to dispose of this is to pay the penalty fare and learn your lesson. You also need to have a valid ticket before boarding if your station has a ticket machine and/or ticket office. Boarding without one, even if you purchase later, is a criminal offence.

Paying the penalty fare means they can’t prosecute this particular matter, but if you’ve short fared before the company many interrogate your ticket purchasing accounts and question you about this.

 

[Discuss223]

I get the feeling there is more to this story.

Did the Officer explain to you why he is treating you as having no ticket?
If there were no barriers at the origin station on your ticket, why didn't the Officer ask you if your ticket had been scanned?
Most crucially, what is the question that you said yes to, under pressure?

 

[BazingaTribe]

I get the feeling there is more to this story.

Did the Officer explain to you why he is treating you as having no ticket?
If there were no barriers at the origin station on your ticket, why didn't the Officer ask you if your ticket had been scanned?
Most crucially, what is the question that you said yes to, under pressure?

Humans like pattern recognition. Sometimes that pattern recognition throws up false positives, but since OP has already admitted to what is basically a common fraud and been charged the least serious of any penalties here, they need to pay it. It's like anyone who gets flashed by a speeding camera when they didn't realise it or someone who throws up in a taxi -- not often planned deliberately, not a huge booboo, not a hanging offence, but something with consequences and which will probably mean they're more careful next time.

A lot of what you're saying are counterfactual to what happened in this scenario. Plus revenue weren't born yesterday; they would probably know which stations are gated and which aren't and the barcodes hold that data, and they will scrutinise it more closely as a result. They might even have revenue operations at that station already, meaning no-one is going anywhere without the correct ticket.

They're also not obliged to go through all the possible permutations you've specified before they reach the reasonable suspicion that the OP has not paid for their entire journey. They can ask questions on the back of a reasonable suspicion arising and OP has answered them in a way that they probably did exercise discretion and issue a penalty fare, because it was a mistake. Furthermore the OP admitted their guilt at the time; appealing now with a changed story is not likely to go in their favour.

It's best here to acknowledge that they made a mistake and understand the penalty arising and to ensure they have a ticket before they hop on a train. I buy on the bus on the way to the station or through my works website. Basingstoke is gated all the time anyway, but it's best to be safe rather than sorry when it comes to railway tickets.

 

[30907]

For future reference, your priority is to buy a ticket for the whole journey; if the app makes you select a train, then choose a later one (making sure you don't select an Advance ticket (or an Offpeak when you need an Anytime).
This means you will have a valid ticket when you are checked. (You can still be done for boarding before buying, of course.)