Would you still be interested in Railways if…..

[Mat17]

I think the railway attracts people for many reasons. There seems to be a large (but shrinking) fanbase for those who love all things steam. A decent backing for locos and loco hauled and a lot of interest in what I'd consider modern - Sprinters, Pacers, and 21st century stock.

I always feel like an outlier in railway circles. My railway journey started during Sprinterisation. You could say I grew up on Pacers and Sprinters, but I have no love for them. I didn't get excited about them in 1988 and I still find them dull and clinical now. I was enthralled by first gen DMUs though as a young child and I still miss them now. Although I do very much enjoy the process of travelling by train itself (i.e. the journey), I have no interest in what stock turns up. I haven't had since the 101s went.

I'd say the modern rail scene has a much stronger following than the early to mid eighties ever had.

 

[contrex]

The sound of P, Q & R stock in an underground station was lovely.

I was born too late to hear the Metadynes, alas, but I did like all the LT stock that I grew up with. I just caught, aged 13, the last hurrah of the Standard stock on the Northern City.

 

[xotGD]

I'd say the modern rail scene has a much stronger following than the early to mid eighties ever had.

I hardly think so.

A summer Saturday in the 80s, and there were hordes of bashers all over the country. These days, you'll only witness that on a railtour or diesel gala - featuring the classic traction from the 1980s.

 

[181]

I'm sure there is a percentage of those who grew up with steam, pre-Beeching and the Atlantic Coast Express who would find the South Western Division of 1982 boring!

Have always been disposed to be fascinated by; and to love, and wish to have known; railway stuff learned of second-hand, which I could (date of birth / where I could have been, when) never have been able to experience first-hand

My impression is that it's quite common for railway enthusiasts to wish they'd been born earlier -- I don't have any figures to back that up, but I'm sure there's been at least one thread here about it. I'm about the same age as @nw1 and just over 20 years younger than @Calthrop, and while I didn't find the South Western Division of 1982 boring (I was pleased to start commuting to and from school on it), I've always had at least a slight feeling that it would have been better if I'd been born earlier by say 10 years (for early experiences of Bulleid Pacifics passing my bedroom window), 20 years (for steam throughout many of my formative years and some experience of the pre-Beeching railway) or 30 years (for experience of the pre-Beeching railway as an adult). I wouldn't say I had Calthrop's level of fascination with the NG lines of the UK and Ireland, but they're part of my general interest in railways.

So yes, I agree that you don't have to have experienced something first hand to be interested in it -- but possibly it's more likely for things that you just missed out on than for those further in the past.

I imagine for example that there were enthusiasts of earlier generations born around 1925 and wishing they'd experienced the pre-Groupng era, or born around 1895 and wishing they'd seen the broad gauge.

 

[Taunton]

There were certainly senior writers in the BR era who described how wonderful it was with all the different pre-grouping liveries at places like Carlisle or York. Hamilton Ellis was one who wrote about this.

Come privatisation, of course, and this is exactly what was achieved, along with company names themselves changing every year or so ...

 

[Magdalia]

I'd say the modern rail scene has a much stronger following than the early to mid eighties ever had.

I hardly think so.

A summer Saturday in the 80s, and there were hordes of bashers all over the country. These days, you'll only witness that on a railtour or diesel gala - featuring the classic traction from the 1980s.

Railway enthusiasm isn't only about bashing. These days it is mainly driven by digital recording and social media. The railway enthusiasts of today are much more likely to be lineside than on the train.

My impression is that it's quite common for railway enthusiasts to wish they'd been born earlier -- I don't have any figures to back that up, but I'm sure there's been at least one thread here about it.

So yes, I agree that you don't have to have experienced something first hand to be interested in it -- but possibly it's more likely for things that you just missed out on than for those further in the past.

I fit with that. The period that I would like to have experienced first hand was the transition from steam to diesel traction.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

My interest in railways began back in the 1950’s when as a young child my dad used to take me to nearby Norton Bridge on the WCML to see the then steam locomotives. This was followed by early diesels including the blue prototype Deltic. My railway interest has carried on into my 70”s.

This however has got me thinking. If I was a young child now, would I begin to have an interest in railways? Does the railway have the same appeal as it did years ago? Considering the trials & tribulations within the current railway industry is the young enthusiast becoming a dying breed?

So I ask, if you were a younger version of yourself, would you still become interested in railways in the modern age? I honestly don’t think I would.

I probably would. My interest in railways was innate and not circumstantial. That being said, some of the things that really captivated me, like the NSE livery or the Eurostar (in its original guise), are not around anymore. The NSE livery, even at a very very young age I associated with "home", because those were the colours of the trains that ran past my house - sort of. Even today, I have an enduring fondness for NSE even though I was just born after privatisation.

 

[Calthrop]

I imagine for example that there were enthusiasts of earlier generations born around 1925 and wishing they'd experienced the pre-Groupng era, or born around 1895 and wishing they'd seen the broad gauge.

There were certainly senior writers in the BR era who described how wonderful it was with all the different pre-grouping liveries at places like Carlisle or York. Hamilton Ellis was one who wrote about this.

Re your words above, @Taunton: there's a, to me, delightful poem in that vein (way "sub-Milton-or-Keats", but for this reader, highly affecting); which I came across years ago -- forget by whom it was written; whether a well-regarded railway author (am pretty sure it wasn't Ellis) or just some random bod. From general context and what I recall, written pretty much a lifetime ago vis-a-vis now -- overall theme with great nostalgia: the loveliness of our railways' past, especially in pre-Grouping times; and how definitely less lovely things became as from about the mid-20th century. Pre-grouping liveries featured -- I recall the couplet:

The Midland "lake", the Caledonian blue; / The "Brighton" Stroudleys with their umber hue --

and, again "as per": the kaleidoscopic scene of different companies, at "great 'Joint' hubs", one such cited being indeed, Carlisle (Citadel).

I'd love to find this poem again -- attempted Googling has got me nowhere. Would be most grateful for "pointing in the right direction" by anyone who might be acquainted with the piece, and able to access it !

 

[nw1]

So yes, I agree that you don't have to have experienced something first hand to be interested in it -- but possibly it's more likely for things that you just missed out on than for those further in the past.

I know what you mean there as the "before my time" era that I'm most fascinated by is the 70s and very early 80s - it wasn't radically different from 1982+ (while pre-Beeching and steam was) but there were enough differences to make it interesting.

Similarly with buses it's the NBC era I'm most fascinated by: I caught the tail end (1984-86) but most of the period was before I had an interest.

 

[xotGD]

Railway enthusiasm isn't only about bashing. These days it is mainly driven by digital recording and social media. The railway enthusiasts of today are much more likely to be lineside than on the train.

Just because these days it is easy for people to share their stuff on social media doesn't mean that there are more people pointing their cameras at trains. It is just that in the past your phots went into an album in a cupboard, rather than being posted on line.

An of course we didn't have discussion forums such as this - just monthly magazines.

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I know what you mean there as the "before my time" era that I'm most fascinated by is the 70s and very early 80s - it wasn't radically different from 1982+ (while pre-Beeching and steam was) but there were enough differences to make it interesting.

Similarly with buses it's the NBC era I'm most fascinated by: I caught the tail end (1984-86) but most of the period was before I had an interest.

January 2nd 1982 marked a watershed moment on Britain's railways. Truly the end of an era.

Fans of hydraulics will say the same for a date a few years earlier.

 

[MikeFromLFE]

My interest goes back to a time when I was allowed to do things that would be completely forbidden now (and quite rightly).
I spent my pre-beeching summer holidays with my grandmother in her crossing box (Ledburn Crossing near Leighton Buzzard) and when she was bored with me I got sent off with the platelayers to walk the tracks for the day, if I was bored with that I'd wander round the coalyard next to the signal box. I did once get a footplate ride to Wolverton.
Living in Harringay my father used to take me on Sundays to look at the trains from the 'spotters perch' in Finsbury Park or to see the flyover at Harringay West station. I think this encouraged me to go skulking round the shed at Hornsey.

I developed an interest in buses - I think they may have seemed more 'accessible' to a youngster. But as an adult it's trains & railways that keep delivering the interest.

My son must have caught something because he's had a railway career pretty much from the time he left school.

 

[43096]

January 2nd 1982 marked a watershed moment on Britain's railways. Truly the end of an era.

The end of a niche pool of 22 locos is not a “watershed moment”.

If you really want a British railway watershed moment, try 4 October 1976.

 

[Deepgreen]

I think the social acceptability of railway enthusiasm/train spotting had waned a while back and it certainly is far less of a normal schoolboy pastime than in the 50s and 60s, but there are still a lot of young enthusiasts out there, and its likely that their interest is at least partly kindled by, for example, being taken to see main line steam workings as children by their (mainly) nostalgic fathers. So-called 'celebrity' enthusiasts such as Francis Bourgeois also help to make it somewhat more mainstream. Of course, 'eccentricities' of many types are far better tolerated than in the nadir of the 80s and 90s. To put things into perspective perhaps it's necessary also to point out the huge range of interest, from straightforward number bashing to a philosophical/political/social enthusisam for railways (and public services in general). As a retired railway careerist and published railway photographer I like to think of myself as the acceptable face of enthusiasm (

!), but I am proud to recall my childhood platform-ending days.

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Nope, it was the 1930s and 1940s, not that I was around then, but relics were still running around when I was exposed to electric traction as a kid in the 1950s. It all got worse when AC drive took over from DC motors. That awful Networker noise. Give me a 6-PUL any day!

Then perhaps this painting of mine from many years ago will entertain... I did it as a gift for my parents, who lived in Ashtead, and my father had a particular liking for the units, so I used a bit of invention to put them on that route!

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I think the railway attracts people for many reasons. There seems to be a large (but shrinking) fanbase for those who love all things steam. A decent backing for locos and loco hauled and a lot of interest in what I'd consider modern - Sprinters, Pacers, and 21st century stock.

I always feel like an outlier in railway circles. My railway journey started during Sprinterisation. You could say I grew up on Pacers and Sprinters, but I have no love for them. I didn't get excited about them in 1988 and I still find them dull and clinical now. I was enthralled by first gen DMUs though as a young child and I still miss them now. Although I do very much enjoy the process of travelling by train itself (i.e. the journey), I have no interest in what stock turns up. I haven't had since the 101s went.

I'd say the modern rail scene has a much stronger following than the early to mid eighties ever had.

Me too - my father always tried to get the seats behind the cab when it was normal to watch the driver and the road ahead through the glass partition. I always found it fascinating to see the driver change gears as in a car, but with a lot longer in neutral between each gear!

 

[Magdalia]

It is just that in the past your phots went into an album in a cupboard, rather than being posted on line.

But there are also lots of enthusiasts who weren't taking any fots to put into albums in cupboards, but are taking lots of fots to share on social media. That particularly applies to video, hardly any of which is in cupboards.

January 2nd 1982 marked a watershed moment on Britain's railways. Truly the end of an era.

Fans of hydraulics will say the same for a date a few years earlier.

On 2 January 1982 a relatively small class of locomotive working in a specific part of the country ran for the last time. It was only the end of an era for those who followed that class, not railway enthusiasm more generally. Nearly all railway enthusiasm was no different on 3 January 1982 than 2 January 1982. Exactly the same could be said of 26 and 27 February 1977.

Neither compare with the Fifteen Guinea Special on 11 August 1968, which was a watershed moment.

 

[oldman]

I'd love to find this poem again -- attempted Googling has got me nowhere. Would be most grateful for "pointing in the right direction" by anyone who might be acquainted with the piece, and able to access it !

R.P. Lister. Nostalgia

This link mentions two anthologies which include it:

Railway rhymes ed. Peter Ashley

The Railway-Lover's Companion ed. Bryan Morgan

 

[Deepgreen]

But there are also lots of enthusiasts who weren't taking any fots to put into albums in cupboards, but are taking lots of fots to share on social media. That particularly applies to video, hardly any of which is in cupboards.


On 2 January 1982 a relatively small class of locomotive working in a specific part of the country ran for the last time. It was only the end of an era for those who followed that class, not railway enthusiasm more generally. Nearly all railway enthusiasm was no different on 3 January 1982 than 2 January 1982. Exactly the same could be said of 26 and 27 February 1977.

Neither compare with the Fifteen Guinea Special on 11 August 1968, which was a watershed moment.

Class 55 or 'Deltics', and Class 52 ('Westerns') for clarity. I travelled (as a child) on part of the 15G Special with my parents (courtesy of my father's enthusiasm!). I can't remember a great deal about it as it seemed like any other at the time, but I do remember the atmosphere as being 'charged', even from my young viewpoint.

 

[Bevan Price]

I have no idea if I would have become an enthusiast if there had been no regular steam trains when I was growing up. Certainly I would not have gone to the local station just to see repeatedly the same batch of Allerton-based dmus - in the way I did when we never knew what type of steam loco would turn up on a couple of early evening local services. (Anything from a 2P 4-4-0 up to a Royal Scot or Britannia Pacific). Nor would there have been 5-6 spotters living within 100 yards of me in the same road, often travelling together to Wigan or Liverpool.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I think the social acceptability of railway enthusiasm/train spotting had waned a while back and it certainly is far less of a normal schoolboy pastime than in the 50s and 60s, but there are still a lot of young enthusiasts out there, and its likely that their interest is at least partly kindled by, for example, being taken to see main line steam workings as children by their (mainly) nostalgic fathers. So-called 'celebrity' enthusiasts such as Francis Bourgeois also help to make it somewhat more mainstream. Of course, 'eccentricities' of many types are far better tolerated than in the nadir of the 80s and 90s. To put things into perspective perhaps it's necessary also to point out the huge range of interest, from straightforward number bashing to a philosophical/political/social enthusisam for railways (and public services in general). As a retired railway careerist and published railway photographer I like to think of myself as the acceptable face of enthusiasm (

!), but I am proud to recall my childhood platform-ending days.

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Then perhaps this painting of mine from many years ago will entertain... I did it as a gift for my parents, who lived in Ashtead, and my father had a particular liking for the units, so I used a bit of invention to put them on that route! View attachment 171099

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Me too - my father always tried to get the seats behind the cab when it was normal to watch the driver and the road ahead through the glass partition. I always found it fascinating to see the driver change gears as in a car, but with a lot longer in neutral between each gear!

I love those units too, great painting!

I think for me, having thought about it, I might not be into railways as much if I was born now. A lot of the stock variety is gone. Southern for instance has one type of train instead of multiple. There are less 'unusual' workings and I think a lot of the brands are less exciting.

 

[sjpowermac]

If you really want a British railway watershed moment, try 4 October 1976.

Yes indeed, that was the start of uniformity in Inter-City trains. Much of the previous variety was greatly reduced by the introduction of the HST.

From a commercial/operational point of view the HST was, of course, a resounding success.

 

[Calthrop]

R.P. Lister. Nostalgia

This link mentions two anthologies which include it:

Railway rhymes ed. Peter Ashley

The Railway-Lover's Companion ed. Bryan Morgan

Thank you for the link. It gives mentions, as set out by you, of where the poem can be found; but doesn't directly furnish its text (not whinging, just "stating" !). Said link certainly features in its own right, a feast of fascinating reading ! Thanks once more.

 

[Broucek]

The Piccadilly Line passes (in a shallow cutting) through the entrance to a local park just south of Oakwood Station. Children still wave at the train....

 

[Robin Edwards]

In answer - yes I think I probably would. I've realised over my life that changes are inevitably continuous and much is easily missed if that change is not embraced. I took time away from UK and railways 1995-2015 and now regret the things I missed over this time. When young, I refused to take interest in those locomotives that replaced what I knew and loved. I refused to even look at an HST....... (because they replaced Hydraulics and Deltics!!) until accepting that they wouldn't last forever.
I see many young enthusiasts these days but not as young as in my day where line-sides weren't fenced as they now are. Having said that, rail enthusiasm lends to many niche interests, photography, social media, lines, train miles, etc. At the heart often lies a desire to collect is some way or form, an instinct that hasn't been lost imo.
For those who now enjoy the sounds of different electric and diesel units, you needed to be there to hear class 40s, Deltics and before them, 9Fs with loose coupled freights clanking through the night! All things are relative to the time we're in right now and those sounds you hear now, won't be there for always.

 

[AM9]

Growing up in SE Essex in the mid to late '50s, many of the trains on the nearest BR line were already electrified, the Shenfield and Southend Victoria EMUs, but there was a smattering of passenger traffic, steam hauled trains to Norwich (Britannia class), Clacton and Ipswich (B17 Footballer/Sandringham class), as well as a plethora of mixed freight trains hauld by a seemingly endless supply of exWD 2-8-0s. The best viewing place was the 'Iron Bridge', a 150m long footbridge linking Ley Street to Ilford High Road crossing Ilford Car Sheds and the GEML. Over the next 5-10 years, the mix changed through classes 40, 20 and 31 diesel hauled to just class 47 and 37 for Norwich and Harwich rspectively. The rest became AC EMUs in 59-62 when the AM9s turned up. They were to my mind the top of the tree UK EMUs. Without telling my whole life story, they became more significant in later years.
At around this time at High School, it became quite uncool to acknowledge anything about trains so my attention turned to more adolescent activities.

So in respect of the OP's question, yes, I probably would have an burgeoning interest as a child in a later era because I have always been fascinated by the technical side of electric traction, both the sounds and look of the trains, their infrastructure and the story of how they do such a clean and efficient job from the passenger's PoV.

 

[Class15]

I would be. When I grew up the situation on my line was very similar, the only real difference in trains being the replacement of Freightliner Class 86s by Class 66s, and a few livery changes for some of the 378s and freight engines. However the same cannot be said for my interest in going to other lines. I used to do this when there were 317s, 321s, 319s, 315s and 313s operating in the London area. Now everything seems to be Aventra or Desiro City units, which is pretty bland.

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Railway enthusiasm isn't only about bashing. These days it is mainly driven by digital recording and social media. The railway enthusiasts of today are much more likely to be lineside than on the train.

I so agree with this. I have never been one for “bashing”, rather watching trains lineside and largely in my local area rather than afar.

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January 2nd 1982 marked a watershed moment on Britain's railways. Truly the end of an era.

Oh come on. The Deltics (I’m assuming you’re referring to their withdrawal) were a small class that really contributed very little to the railway in general. The 37s were much more significant for the railway as a whole, and are still going (just about) to this day.

 

[Babybirdrobin]

I’m not the ideal for this thread considering I am the child mentioned, but I certainly have the interest, but I would say I’m more interested in the older stock than the newer stuff and have particular affection for the 80s units and locos given I grew up with the random livery generator of Anglian 321s and generally like things like the sprinters, PEP-derived, etc families but love the slammers I never saw but if I was born any later, it would’ve been a lot different potentially as I probably would’ve seen more value in things like the electrostars, I’d say the most modern stock I’d go out to spot would be coradias, the fancy rubbish like the AT300s just aren’t my thing, but I’ll still take them if they’re there while I’m waiting for something more interestingSo basically, yes I am interested but I’d say the older stock is way more interesting than anything mixed with the exceptions being steam as while I love it, I don’t get the same happiness from travelling behind it as say a 37 but I still really enjoy spotting it, there’s also a few exceptions on the modern side like Turbostars and the early privatisation units (+ cats and FLIRTS) but the bulk of the stock I really like is on the BR side of privatisation post about 1955-1960

Edit: that was very wordy, sorry, but I’m going to add this from reading the rest of the thread, I’m both a spotter and a ‘basher’ but I prefer spotting for the most part however that leads to me going all over the country to spot the stock I was call interesting and nice

 

[Mat17]

In answer - yes I think I probably would. I've realised over my life that changes are inevitably continuous and much is easily missed if that change is not embraced. I took time away from UK and railways 1995-2015 and now regret the things I missed over this time. When young, I refused to take interest in those locomotives that replaced what I knew and loved. I refused to even look at an HST....... (because they replaced Hydraulics and Deltics!!) until accepting that they wouldn't last forever...

All things are relative to the time we're in right now and those sounds you hear now, won't be there for always.

I totally agree.

In some ways it's reassuring to know things aren't permanent. I know a few train types I hated from the off and wanted to see the back of from day 1. I hope the scrapyards get all of the 153s in the end.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

but there are still a lot of young enthusiasts out there, and its likely that their interest is at least partly kindled by, for example, being taken to see main line steam workings as children

I'd say my enthusiasm started by watching 390s passing Wigan.
I have still not seen any main line steam train in person (have been on a heritage steam train).

 

[AM9]

Much regret being expressed here on 'missing' something that is no longer, yet in the next breath criticising something new. I'm rather more progressive in showing interest in the new and consequently taking the opportunity to experience them. I clearly remember once new things such as AM9s (class 309s), 312s, 4CIGs and 4BIGs on the Portsmouth Direct, 442s, 700s, 331s and 345s. Those that are now gone aren't forgotten but their role in UK rail history is remembered in context.
So if I was to start today, there would be new stock that could be experienced in it's intended environmemnt under working conditions. The railway is not a museum, it is a working part of our transport system and is there (strikes, breakdowns and inclement weather permitting) to be used and for many enjoyed.

 

[Bevan Price]

Much regret being expressed here on 'missing' something that is no longer, yet in the next breath criticising something new. I'm rather more progressive in showing interest in the new and consequently taking the opportunity to experience them. I clearly remember once new things such as AM9s (class 309s), 312s, 4CIGs and 4BIGs on the Portsmouth Direct, 442s, 700s, 331s and 345s. Those that are now gone aren't forgotten but their role in UK rail history is remembered in context.
So if I was to start today, there would be new stock that could be experienced in it's intended environmemnt under working conditions. The railway is not a museum, it is a working part of our transport system and is there (strikes, breakdowns and inclement weather permitting) to be used and for many enjoyed.

I am one of those who is sometimes critical of "the new" - but not because it is new, rather because of disappointment because the new stock could have been much better. Voyagers are capable of fine performance - but they are far too small to cater for the number of potential passengers. Goodness knows how many people have deserted rail travel because they could never get a seat on a Voyager. Pendolinos are also competent trains in terms of performance, but let down by abysmal internal design - claustrophobic, too many seats with poor external views, and narrow seats ; the 9 coach (some built as 8 coach) versions are also too small for use on many services.

Despite their "hard" seats, the 80x series units are a vast improvement in passenger environment, so not everything "new" is worse than their predecessors.

 

[AM9]

I am one of those who is sometimes critical of "the new" - but not because it is new, rather because of disappointment because the new stock could have been much better. Voyagers are capable of fine performance - but they are far too small to cater for the number of potential passengers. Goodness knows how many people have deserted rail travel because they could never get a seat on a Voyager. Pendolinos are also competent trains in terms of performance, but let down by abysmal internal design - claustrophobic, too many seats with poor external views, and narrow seats ; the 9 coach (some built as 8 coach) versions are also too small for use on many services.

Despite their "hard" seats, the 80x series units are a vast improvement in passenger environment, so not everything "new" is worse than their predecessors.

I am not in favour of 'new' because it is new, indeed I, amongst a few others have been critical of the recent 'cheap' initial acquisitions from CAF (classes 195 & 331 and even 397), specifically about the poor ride that they offered compared with those designs' contemporaries, such as the 700s and 345s. Apart from the calamitous day in August when the Desiro City class trains running on OLE shut down by a sudden dip in the national grid frequency, it being an overcautious transformer protection, the ride on those has proven to be pretty good even of difficult sections of the routes that they work on.
The Voyagers' (and Meridians') capacity is a self inflicted problem, the Bombardier design is quite sound, if a little environmentally antisocial for those livingnear their routes. I don't have any issues with Pendolinos, I don't find them claustrophobic and views out of windows are not a important to me as for some here.