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GWR Sunday Cancellations - crew availability - why?

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12LDA28C

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GWR have issued an ‘only travel if absolutely necessary’ warning for this coming Sunday 8th December due to crew shortages on long distance routes. A ‘significantly reduced’ timetable will be in operation.
 
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sh24

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GWR have issued an ‘only travel if absolutely necessary’ warning for this coming Sunday 8th December due to crew shortages on long distance routes. A ‘significantly reduced’ timetable will be in operation.

The new normal. Hopefully things resolve somewhat when the new tax year starts in April...
 

jayah

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The new normal. Hopefully things resolve somewhat when the new tax year starts in April...
The tax allowances are frozen, so another cost of living pay rise will put drivers basic pay even closer to the 62% super tax.

It will be resolved when they pay £1k/day or change the contracts for existing staff. Neither of those looks very likely.

Or wait 20 years, by which time half of the drivers will have been hired on the 'new' contract with committed Sundays. But the Guards may still not have any committment to work.
 

43066

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It will be resolved when they pay £1k/day or change the contracts for existing staff. Neither of those looks very likely.

Why not? It’s not *that* much more than Eurostar drivers currently get for overtime. Paying that, or even more, will likely still be cheaper than bringing Sundays inside!

Paying over the odds for overtime is hardly exclusive to the railway: the NHS routinely pays out three (or more) times hourly rates for agency medical staff. Viewed in that context railway staff working overtime for 1.5 times the usual rate, with no agency fee, are something of a bargain.
 

Class 170101

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I have provided numerous examples from different parts of the country. The provision is clearly not matched to demand, not on Sundays, not at 5am on Fridays nor 3am on Tuesday.
But again if you don't have a shutdown overnight when does Network Rail undertake track maintenance?

Weekday off peak timetables have become very bloated over the past 20 years, and to avoid even more cost providing a Sunday service, the pruning shears need to be used to put supply and demand in the same place.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Are you suggesting fewer SX services?

The first Stansted Express is too late for many workers and the evening service ends too early for the last flight arrivals.

It is not a demand led timetable, nor a timetable that is prioritising people getting to work.
I am afraid you need to convince NR to give up access and I wish you luck with that one.

But via some quirk of history, the renowned 24hr city of Peterborough has the overnight service
Isn't that more do with getting staff to work in London for the ECML or Eurostar next door. It should be noted its not a true 24hr service. Last train 01:36 ex Kings Cross, First Train 05:12 Kings Cross. Up Direction is something like 03:23 to 23:55.

Heathrow Airport
Not exactly sure what time the last flights are but Heathrow has a flight curfew around 6hrs or so so doesn't need a 24hr service anyway
and Stansted can only dream of!
Take that one up with Network Rail
 

father_jack

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People shouldn't bank on going far with GWR on Sunday 22nd or 29th December.

The company called RMT to a meeting to try and improve the "voluntary" staffing coverage on those dates. But look below.......

** Sunday 'Christmas Working' Pay ** Update
You may have been aware that the company requested we meet with them today (Wednesday 11th Dec) to discuss payment for members working Sunday 22nd and Sunday 29th December.
I have been informed that GWR have cancelled this meeting (with 2 hours notice) and are not in a position to offer any enhancements on EITHER of these days to you.
Signed (redacted) - RMT Full Time Officer
 
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43066

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People shouldn't bank on going far with GWR on Sunday 22nd or 29th December.

The company called RMT to a meeting to try and improve the "voluntary" staffing coverage on those dates. But look below.......

Very disappointing and, from a position of no inside knowledge, it’s rather difficult to understand why the company would take such a step.
 

Clarence Yard

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Because they are not in a position to offer anything - the DfT will not authorise the payments.
 

43066

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Because they are not in a position to offer anything - the DfT will not authorise the payments.

So they can blame it on the private operator... And then look like saviours when they come in and offer a deal once nationalised.

I mean the cynic in me says there might be something in that but, if so, it’s more or less deliberate sabotage of the service by the DfT for political purposes.
 

Shaw S Hunter

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I mean the cynic in me says there might be something in that but, if so, it’s more or less deliberate sabotage of the service by the DfT for political purposes.
Or equally a highly conservative reaction to recent statements by Treasury officials about "unnecessary" spending.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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So they can blame it on the private operator... And then look like saviours when they come in and offer a deal once nationalised.

Considering GWR are not in the first tranche of TOCs slated to come under GBR control, that is a lot of painful Sunday fiascos still to come then.
 

Annetts key

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For those suggesting a change of employment contract to provide a 7 day a week service without any Sunday overtime turns being needed, there are various problems:

1, If no overtime is worked, you either need to employ far more staff (which costs a lot more) or have a drastic cut in the timetabled service. The DfT won't allow the staff costs to rise by that amount and they will not be happy for the amount of train services that would need to be cut.

2, If Sunday becomes part of the working week, but the number of staff does not increase substantially, you will get more train services cancelled throughout the week rather than just at weekends. Because you would then be relying on the same staff to work overtime during the week. And they can refuse to work overtime.

Basically this is a problem caused by people at a high level meddling without either knowing the consequences or not caring about the consequences.

The same problem has occurred before and once the staff find that they prefer not working overtime, you then find that there isn't an easy fix.

The unions will be happy to discuss the problem if the TOC and the DfT are going to negotiate in good faith with the aim of working out a solution that is agreeable to the union members, the TOC and the DfT. But don't hold your breath.
 

sp503

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For those suggesting a change of employment contract to provide a 7 day a week service without any Sunday overtime turns being needed, there are various problems:

1, If no overtime is worked, you either need to employ far more staff (which costs a lot more) or have a drastic cut in the timetabled service. The DfT won't allow the staff costs to rise by that amount and they will not be happy for the amount of train services that would need to be cut.

2, If Sunday becomes part of the working week, but the number of staff does not increase substantially, you will get more train services cancelled throughout the week rather than just at weekends. Because you would then be relying on the same staff to work overtime during the week. And they can refuse to work overtime.

Basically this is a problem caused by people at a high level meddling without either knowing the consequences or not caring about the consequences.

The same problem has occurred before and once the staff find that they prefer not working overtime, you then find that there isn't an easy fix.

The unions will be happy to discuss the problem if the TOC and the DfT are going to negotiate in good faith with the aim of working out a solution that is agreeable to the union members, the TOC and the DfT. But don't hold your breath.
I understand DfT is under financial pressure but let’s call a spade a spade - the problem is that there has never been enough staff to begin with. The franchise system has encouraged behaviours like relying on overtime rather than employing adequate staff to become the norm, which is not ok.

Significantly reducing the service is the right thing to do: they should not advertise services they are never able to run; and it’s not like they aren’t significantly reducing service now anyway. People will find their way to places. Be it driving or national express or some other routes. But please stop giving people false hopes and then give out massive delay repays. This is simply mismanagement and terrible customer service.
 

GordonT

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I understand DfT is under financial pressure but let’s call a spade a spade - the problem is that there has never been enough staff to begin with. The franchise system has encouraged behaviours like relying on overtime rather than employing adequate staff to become the norm, which is not ok.

Significantly reducing the service is the right thing to do: they should not advertise services they are never able to run; and it’s not like they aren’t significantly reducing service now anyway. People will find their way to places. Be it driving or national express or some other routes. But please stop giving people false hopes and then give out massive delay repays. This is simply mismanagement and terrible customer service.
True as far as it goes but there is sometimes a tendency to overlook the influence of a significant minority of staff who historically have constructed their lifestyle around maximising overtime worked and probably don't wish to see the opportunities to work overtime annihilated. But I suspect this has been debated on here many many times.
 

irish_rail

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Considering GWR are not in the first tranche of TOCs slated to come under GBR control, that is a lot of painful Sunday fiascos still to come then.
Indeed, I've seen it written that GWR will in fact be the last to go national now, not until 2028! Laughable. If GWR was moved to the north of England there would be far greater pressure to get things sorted. Instead First are rewarded with another nearly 4 years of creaming revenue off GWR.
 

whoosh

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I bet the leasing companies love this cutting back services solution. Same thousands and thousands per month per coach, but less miles on the clock. What a win!
 

class ep-09

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I bet the leasing companies love this cutting back services solution. Same thousands and thousands per month per coach, but less miles on the clock. What a win!
I guess someone will point , less miles done the longer existing stock can run in to future …

150’s in 2055 anyone interested ?
 

Clarence Yard

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Indeed, I've seen it written that GWR will in fact be the last to go national now, not until 2028! Laughable. If GWR was moved to the north of England there would be far greater pressure to get things sorted. Instead First are rewarded with another nearly 4 years of creaming revenue off GWR.

No. Sometime in 2026 is the latest view. They are being taken back in roughly CTED order, it seems, about one every three months.

And FG are not creaming revenue off GWR. The management fees come from the DfT itself, not from the TOC budget.
 

VP185

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Indeed, I've seen it written that GWR will in fact be the last to go national now, not until 2028! Laughable. If GWR was moved to the north of England there would be far greater pressure to get things sorted. Instead First are rewarded with another nearly 4 years of creaming revenue off GWR.

Except revenue goes directly to the treasury with First receiving a fixed management fee.
 

Goldfish62

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Indeed, I've seen it written that GWR will in fact be the last to go national now, not until 2028! Laughable. If GWR was moved to the north of England there would be far greater pressure to get things sorted. Instead First are rewarded with another nearly 4 years of creaming revenue off GWR.
Ignore the nonsense that "Bring back British Rail" have posted regarding dates. They're clearly not a serious organisation if they're posting such misleading rubbish.

Unless terminated on the grounds of performance, it can be ended anytime after the core expiry date, with three months notice. That date is June 2025.
 

irish_rail

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Ignore the nonsense that "Bring back British Rail" have posted regarding dates. They're clearly not a serious organisation if they're posting such misleading rubbish.

Unless terminated on the grounds of performance, it can be ended anytime after the core expiry date, with three months notice. That date is June 2025.
The 2028 quote I heard was from a manager.
 

Goldfish62

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The 2028 quote I heard was from a manager.
Unless the manager concerned has special access to the Transport Secretary it's just tittle tattle. The 2028 date is the final expiry date. The whole point of the recently passed act was to be able to terminate contracts at any time between the core expiry date and the final expiry date.

Apart from SWR, C2C and GA no other terminations have been public, so all other dates are just gossip. The last contract to reach the core expiry date is Cross Country in October 2027.
 

12LDA28C

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GWR have issued an ‘only travel if absolutely necessary’ warning for this coming Sunday 8th December due to crew shortages on long distance routes. A ‘significantly reduced’ timetable will be in operation.

At the risk of repeating myself, the same warning has again been issued for this coming Sunday, 15th December. Who could have predicted that?!
 

Horizon22

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At the risk of repeating myself, the same warning has again been issued for this coming Sunday, 15th December. Who could have predicted that?!

The 22nd is going to be even more wild, considering there's a massive Xmas shutdown at Paddington.
 

Melancholia

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So they are accepting tickets dated for Sunday 15th on Monday 16th.

Surely now people should notice that if they want to travel on an expensive peak time train on a Monday, they should just buy a cheaper Super Off Peak ticket for the day before, as it seems like it will be accepted every Monday.
 
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