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RMT Strike (Avanti) February

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Clarence Yard

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From an outsiders position, and knowing that the DfT will just say no, but surely the logical solution is to employ more TMs. Therefore nobody needs to (except maybe for illness or disruption) work their rest days to run a normal service.

Alternatively, reduce the services to a number that can be ran on the staff currently employed without relying on rest day working.

But what happens when the DfT say no to recruiting more staff?

Reducing the services may sound logical but if, say, Sundays are outside the working week, you will just repeat the problem with now less trains in the timetable to spread the passenger load over when you have to cancel one of those remaining trains.
 
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Tractor2018

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If the RMT didn't seem to constantly go on strike, there wouldn't be any need to incentivise a large pool of managers to cover trains...

You know industrial action is a reaction to something don't you? And only after negotiation? So maybe you could focus elsewhere instead of gaslighting the staff.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Before or after they'd had their 1st class food!!

If only you knew more about historic productivity deals for some staff (which I'm not going to share), it might make sense of what's forming your judgement.
 
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But what happens when the DfT say no to recruiting more staff?
To solve this problem and all the problems caused by the railway industry's dependence on overtime and rest day working the Government has to enable the railway industry to recruit enough additional staff to end this dependence on overtime and rest day working. I note the following statement by the Rail Minister Lord Hendy in the House of Lords on 5 December.
Train Crew Shortages
Volume 841: debated on Thursday 5 December 2024
Baroness Randerson
To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the reasons for the shortage of train crew reported across several train operators as the explanation for the cancellation of services.
The Minister of State, Department for Transport
(Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill) (Lab)
My Lords, the current level of train cancellations is dreadful for passengers, and driver, guard and train manager availability has been driving much of this. The railway we inherited has unacceptable levels of staff shortages. We have commissioned detailed work to understand train crew numbers and availability. The previous Government had no useful knowledge of staff levels, recruitment, training, overtime and planning efficiency across individual operators. That work and the Government’s commitment to wider rail reform will drive better staff numbers and more efficient utilisation of those resources and reduce cancellations in the future.
 

Krokodil

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If the RMT didn't seem to constantly go on strike, there wouldn't be any need to incentivise a large pool of managers to cover trains...
I'm going to have to ask you to explain your logic here because I can't make head or tail of it. Avanti guards haven't struck for around a year (I can't remember the precise date that RMT settled). So "constantly" is cobblers for a start. As there haven't been any walkouts in ages, what do you think that managers have been covering? It's got nothing to do with strikes.

Your finger should be pointed at Avanti who have failed to recruit enough staff to run the day-to-day service.
 

Bletchleyite

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Your finger should be pointed at Avanti who have failed to recruit enough staff to run the day-to-day service.

Or at DfT for not permitting them to do so, more likely.

However, I do find striking over this a bit strange, particularly at a time of year that will ruin family Christmasses (though admittedly not as bad as if they'd picked 24th and/or 27th Dec). An overtime ban (or simply staff all independently deciding not to volunteer) would be a more usual way of applying pressure on overtime related issues.
 

Starmill

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Or at DfT for not permitting them to do so, more likely.

However, I do find striking over this a bit strange, particularly at a time of year that will ruin family Christmasses (though admittedly not as bad as if they'd picked 24th and/or 27th Dec). An overtime ban (or simply staff all independently deciding not to volunteer) would be a more usual way of applying pressure on overtime related issues.
Realistically there will still be some kind of service. It may not be very good but it's very very unlikely anyone will be stranded over the two days of no service somewhere they didn't want to be. Some Avanti, LNR & WMR and TransPennine Express trains will run. Maybe not many but not none.
 

Harpo

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Realistically there will still be some kind of service. It may not be very good but it's very very unlikely anyone will be stranded over the two days of no service somewhere they didn't want to be. Some Avanti, LNR & WMR and TransPennine Express trains will run. Maybe not many but not none.
And some highly put-apon junior managers will be obliged to provide the stop gap.

I realise it's not popular currency to consider anyone with the 'M' word in their job title but I suspect that as well as having no influence over the circumstances, they might well find their future prospects compromised if they don't fill in. I'd not like to be in their shoes whatever the cash offer.
 

Krokodil

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However, I do find striking over this a bit strange,
It does seem odd to strike over a poor overtime rate - normally the response would just be an overtime ban. The fact that it has gone to strike (with a massive mandate at the ballot) is indicative of just how bitter relations are. Like someone suggested on the Northern thread, a management clearout would be the fastest way of restoring harmony.
 

Mawkie

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The fact that it has gone to strike (with a massive mandate at the ballot) is indicative of just how bitter relations are.
It's almost impossible to convey to people how low industrial relations have gotten in many industries across the country. It's the heavy unionisation of the transport sector that brings it to the public's attention, but everyone I know is fed up with the endless cuts in their respective organisations, be that retail, education, law, publishing, or wherever.

At the end of the day, people have to be paid according to the skills, knowledge, and experience they bring to a company. If companies keep devaluing their staff, they should expect some kickback.

Although this strike will likely impact me, I wish the Avanti staff well.
 

whoosh

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It's almost impossible to convey to people how low industrial relations have gotten in many industries across the country. It's the heavy unionisation of the transport sector that brings it to the public's attention, but everyone I know is fed up with the endless cuts in their respective organisations, be that retail, education, law, publishing, or wherever.

At the end of the day, people have to be paid according to the skills, knowledge, and experience they bring to a company. If companies keep devaluing their staff, they should expect some kickback.

Although this strike will likely impact me, I wish the Avanti staff well.

Well said. Education in particular seems to epitomise the viewpoint of, "If you don't like working here, find somewhere else," (rather than sensible discussion to try and resolve issues) and is an absolute revolving door of staff comings and goings because of it.
 

eoff

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Yes there is no requirement that strikes have to be communicated to the public 14 days before. The union have to give the operator 14 days notice. It is then the operators responsibility to inform customers.

It was a postal ballot that concluded on 28th November 2024. E-ballots are not permitted for industrial action.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==


Work to rule is still action short of a strike and requires 14 days notice.

How stong was the vote for strike action, which I assume came after the e-vote...

Not sure I understand the maths here (75% of members?)...
In an e-referendum, 92.8% of our members rejected management's latest proposals on a turnout of 81%.
 

Skiddaw

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So does that indicate that Avanti has been aware for some time that there will be strike action on 22nd, 23rd & 29th December but deliberately kept it under wraps? And if so, why? To paint the RMT in the worst possible light or in the hope that the strikes would be postponed or both/neither?
 

Kev77

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Strike is suspended. Company has come back with a revised offer. Another vote to take place tomorrow. Offer appears still poor but other issues such as the use of scanners have not been bolted on to it. It will still be rejected in my opinion but Christmas will not be affected. Earliest industrial action can now happen is 31st December.
 

GS250

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Strike is suspended. Company has come back with a revised offer. Another vote to take place tomorrow. Offer appears still poor but other issues such as the use of scanners have not been bolted on to it. It will still be rejected in my opinion but Christmas will not be affected. Earliest industrial action can now happen is 31st December.

Thank goodness for that. Ma and Pa had booked London-Glasgow on the 23rd. Huge contingency plans were being put together including Lumo, British airways or easyJet. None of the options were particularly cheap!
 

Huntergreed

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Strike is suspended. Company has come back with a revised offer. Another vote to take place tomorrow. Offer appears still poor but other issues such as the use of scanners have not been bolted on to it. It will still be rejected in my opinion but Christmas will not be affected. Earliest industrial action can now happen is 31st December.
Is this confirmed? RMT and Avanti websites still showing the strike as if going ahead. Have you a source for this suspension?
 

SCDR_WMR

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Is this confirmed? RMT and Avanti websites still showing the strike as if going ahead. Have you a source for this suspension?
Yes it is. Just seen the Avanti memo from a TM I was passing with. kev77 I believe works for them so...
 

Krokodil

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Is this confirmed? RMT and Avanti websites still showing the strike as if going ahead. Have you a source for this suspension?
Given Kev77's previous posts he is presumably one of the TMs involved and has been informed by his rep.
 

Carlisle

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Strike is suspended. Company has come back with a revised offer. Another vote to take place tomorrow. Offer appears still poor but other issues such as the use of scanners have not been bolted on to it. It will still be rejected in my opinion but Christmas will not be affected. Earliest industrial action can now happen is 31st December.
Procedural Chess :'(
 
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Strike is suspended. Company has come back with a revised offer. Another vote to take place tomorrow. Offer appears still poor but other issues such as the use of scanners have not been bolted on to it. It will still be rejected in my opinion but Christmas will not be affected. Earliest industrial action can now happen is 31st December.
Noting the following press article perhaps the Government asked Avanti management to make a revised offer to avoid the strikes on 22, 23 and 29 December.
PM hits out at RMT workers striking on Avanti trains this Christmas
Wednesday 11 December 2024 at 3:19pm
The prime minister has urged striking RMT workers to "rethink" planned industrial action on the Avanti West Coast line during the Christmas period.
Responding to the news of the strike on Wednesday, Downing Street said: "The public will be rightly disappointed in that action. The last thing people want to see over the Christmas period is disruption to trains."
A spokesperson for Sir Keir Starmer urged the RMT union to "rethink" planned strike action on December 22, 23 and 29.
 

Ericscollar

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Before or after they'd had their 1st class food!!
They don’t always get breaks away from the train so they’re more than entitled to have some down time to themselves, also entitled to a bite to eat, AWC may not be perfect but it’s not a sweatshop either.
 

Clarence Yard

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Noting the following press article perhaps the Government asked Avanti management to make a revised offer to avoid the strikes on 22, 23 and 29 December.

Almost certainly. The DfT were probably told to authorise Avanti to make a better offer.

I wonder if the problems with RDW offers at other TOCs will also magically disappear.
 

GS250

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Still nothing on the Avanti website. Dare I say there is a process to follow for such events.
 

Jamesrob637

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Hahahahahahaha

I knew they'd get called off, at least the pre Christmas ones.
 

Goldfish62

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Assuming it's likely to be rejected, presumably we'll get 31st Dec and/or 2nd Jan instead, to knacker New Year instead? I wouldn't bet against that...
Why would you assume it's likely to be rejected? The RMT wouldn't have suspended the action had they thought the offer would be unacceptable to their members.
 

Krokodil

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Still nothing on the Avanti website.
Remember this next time that people are blaming RMT for lack of information.

Assuming it's likely to be rejected, presumably we'll get 31st Dec and/or 2nd Jan instead, to knacker New Year instead? I wouldn't bet against that...
31st would be difficult. The vote closes on the 17th so they'd have to give notice extremely quickly.
 
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