Vaping on Trains and vaping in general

[johntea]

I have a 'refillable' rechargable one that cost £25 in the sense you replace the pod / mouthpiece every couple of weeks or so for £4, vape shops sell a billion liquids in 10ml bottles 4 for £10 includng all the popular 'Elfbar' flavours so kids will probably just move on to them (I guess one slight advantage is schools or parents can 'confiscate' them and it'll hurt slightly more in the pocket of a child than a £4 disposable)

Doubt it will affect the many corner shops from their side business of 6000 puff vapes under the counter although I can see a lot of vape shops vanshing as a result, by a huge margin their main business today seems to be...disposables in a shift from several years ago with the fancy kits and big bottles of juice

 

[Archvile]

Cigarettes, as I'm sure everyone is aware by now, are addictive and cause cancer. The addictive component is caused by nicotine, but the carcinogenic component is tar. Nicotine, by itself, does not have major heath effects aside from the usual problems caused by addiction in general.

Nicotine is the major driver of atherosclerosis, via hypertension.

 

[Fermiboson]

Nicotine is the major driver of atherosclerosis, via hypertension.

And of course, inhaling smoke in general is bad for your respiratory system in multiple other ways, and many of the flavours and sweeteners used may also be harmful when inhaled. I’m certainly not insinuating that nicotine is harmless, and it is hopefully obvious that putting things in your body that weren’t designed to be put in your body is unhealthy, and that addiction in and of itself is quite crippling. Apologies for not making that clearer.

The point, however, does stand: vaping is far, far less lethal than smoking will ever be.

 

[jon0844]

As I said, I don't have a problem with people vaping if they know what they're inhaling, but I am certain there will be a future scandal relating to the import and sale of dodgy chemicals.

And comparing with smoking isn't necessarily relevant as it should be vaping vs not vaping.

Vaping to wean people off cigarettes is fine, but the industry and gazillions of vape shops isn't about doing any of that now, if it ever was.

 

[Fermiboson]

As I said, I don't have a problem with people vaping if they know what they're inhaling, but I am certain there will be a future scandal relating to the import and sale of dodgy chemicals.

And comparing with smoking isn't necessarily relevant as it should be vaping vs not vaping.

Vaping to wean people off cigarettes is fine, but the industry and gazillions of vape shops isn't about doing any of that now, if it ever was.

There is, in fact, already such a scandal (some e-cigarette manufacturers in the US had put cannabis among other things in their products in 2020, leading to a series of deaths). Which is why it’s all the more essential that there is a legitimate sales channel to be regulated.

I agree that the industry is not about weaning people off cigarettes (after all, most vapes are run by tobacco companies themselves!) but that is a statistical side effect of wider availability of vapes.

 

[Mikey C]

Vaping doesn't bother me. I don't mind the sickly sweet smells unless I'm right next to the vaper, and for a period of time.

Children vaping is a massive no no though. And the environmental waste of precious materials is a disgrace too.

 

[1D54]

So a young generation, many have probably never touched a cigarette are now addicted to nicotine.. Guess where they will turn!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Recent news reports give China as the primary source of much of the vape products entering Britain.

 

[1D54]

Australia said the same prior to banning the disposable variety.

 

[Benjwri]

So a young generation, many have probably never touched a cigarette are now addicted to nicotine.. Guess where they will turn!

Non disposable vapes?

In reality for many vaping is a gateway to cigarettes, or some very powerful nicotine gum. That’s just the way addiction works.

 

[JD2168]

As an ex smoker of 1290 days and counting is vaping a real issue on public transport?

I travel several hundreds of miles per week by train and can’t say I’ve seen or whiffed it very often, if ever really.

More of a problem I find on Buses than Trains. Quite often when I am on a bus someone is Vaping during the journey. When I caught a CrossCountry Train to Birmingham a couple of weekends ago there was someone Vaping during the journey.

 

[Fermiboson]

Non disposable vapes?

In reality for many vaping is a gateway to cigarettes, or some very powerful nicotine gum. That’s just the way addiction works.

There's no real evidence across hundreds of studies for the gateway effect, not just for smoking but for drugs in general.

 

[Benjwri]

There's no real evidence across hundreds of studies for the gateway effect, not just for smoking but for drugs in general.

Did not mention drugs as a whole, but what I will say is I know an awful lot of people who started vaping and now use cigarettes, or nicotine gum.

Regardless vapes themselves are not being banned, if someone can get hold of a disposable cape they’ll be able to get hold of a refillable one.

 

[Fermiboson]

Regardless vapes themselves are not being banned, if someone can get hold of a disposable cape they’ll be able to get hold of a refillable one.

And hence why I have no specific opinion on the ban of disposable vapes. I think the environmental argument is a good one.

 

[sprunt]

There is, in fact, already such a scandal (some e-cigarette manufacturers in the US had put cannabis among other things in their products in 2020, leading to a series of deaths).

Do you have a reference for this?The lethal dose of THC (the active ingredient in cannabis) is regarded as so high that it can't easily be reached.

Can people overdose on cannabis?
Not easily. Scientists estimate that the lethal dose of THC, the active ingredient of the drug, is somewhere in the range of 15-70g. That is far beyond the daily consumption of even the most enthusiastic user.

 

[renegademaster]

The problem with the cannabis vapes wasnt the cannabis itself but dodgy additives that where used since it was unregulated. If people try to drive tobacco vaping undeground you will get the same thing

 

[LBMPSB]

Do you have the same kind of opinion on people who drink alcohol on trains? I'd rather sit next to a person vaping than a person drinking.

Being intoxicated on a train goes against the Railway Bye Laws, and nothing is done about that. Is vaping in the Railway Bye-laws yet or is it left to TOCs to make up their own rules?

 

[farleigh]

whats wrong with vaping then?

Thought it was better than smoking?

 

[Krokodil]

whats wrong with vaping then?

Thought it was better than smoking?

It's better than smoking, but not better than doing neither.

 

[LUYMun]

whats wrong with vaping then?

Thought it was better than smoking?

Vaping or smoking makes no difference when it is essentially exhaling smoke in a mostly-enclosed environment. I recently had the displeasure of travelling on a bus in Guildford going past the university and getting the strong smell of strawberry-flavoured vape.

 

[thenorthern]

Regularly I am catching a Northern service made up 2 sets of 3 coach Class 195s coaches. As the station I am traveling to has short platforms I have to travel in the front 3 coaches. Every train I seem to catch there is someone vaping which makes the coach stink of flavoured vape liquid. When I get off the train I compalin to the guard who just says "nothing I can do as I have to be in the rear 3 coaches". I have regularly complained to Northern on Twitter who just say "find the guard and he will sort it".

What is the best option for the next step? Part of me wants to pull the emergency cord as after all smoke rising from a seat is an indication that the train is on fire. I know however that it's probably not the best option. I have previously politely asked people to stop on other services but I seem to get a lot of abuse for doing so.

 

[Harpo]

They’re just like any other anti-social drug addict who can’t go without their fix.

 

[Mainline421]

What is the best option for the next step? Part of me wants to pull the emergency cord as after all smoke rising from a seat is an indication that the train is on fire. I know however that it's probably not the best option. I have previously politely asked people to stop on other services but I seem to get a lot of abuse for doing so.

Vapes are ultimately just the same as eating smelly food, unpleasant perhaps but not a safety issue like smoking arguably is. It's not even covered by law as far as I know

 

[185]

Just off a Northern Replacement bus provided by Arriva Rail Support, with the drivers two mates sat their vaping for an hour. It also waited needlessly midroute for 15 minutes at a 'stops to set down only' stop (on RTT), and the driver and his two mates smoked cigarettes outside the front which filled the parked bus with ciggy smoke.

On checking the vehicle details (according to DVSA) the 22-seater Iveco van-bus MOT expired 2022. Asking Northern to sack Arriva Rail Support. Lucky the bus got all 22 passengers on, but there were suitcases everywhere. Apparently Northern had also paid for a fullsize 44-seat coach.

 

[Tetragon213]

Oh please, not again. This subject has been done to death in multi pages of discussion quite recently. Why not just mind your own business and ignore it?

As for pulling the emergency lever for someone vaping, sorry but that's the most ridiculous - and foolhardy notion I've ever heard!

Surprisingly, I don't think most people enjoy breathing in second-hand fumes...

Having been to Japan recently, it's astonishing to see the cultural differences, where despite being a nation of smokers, the people go quite far out of their way to avoid bothering others with it. Until fairly recently, their Shinkansens had dedicated on-board smoking rooms!

 

[Harpers Tate]

I do think it's somewhat interesting that people feel within their rights (and I'm not disagreeing) to complain, raise, post on forums, and so on about second-hand vape. "Most people (don't) enjoy breathing in second-hand fumes......"

Yes - but it seems, only when they can smell them and/or are not producing them, themselves. Many of those same people will happily use their internal combustion engined car and see nothing wrong with that. I contend that the output from such a vehicle is likely to be far more noxious than the output of a vaper. But mostly, you can't see or smell it. Perhaps what we need is for all road fuel to be mandated to contain an ingredient that makes it visible and gives it an odour.

 

[Harpo]

Many of those same people will happily use their internal combustion engined car and see nothing wrong with that. I contend that the output from such a vehicle is likely to be far more noxious than the output of a vaper. But mostly, you can't see or smell it. Perhaps what we need is for all road fuel to be mandated to contain an ingredient that makes it visible and gives it an odour.

A vapers logic??

Can’t dispute the noxious nature of ICE exhausts but they don’t envelop me by happening a couple of feet from my face or in enclosed spaces.

 

[bahnause]

I urge the guys whose vocabulary seems to consist only of "I" and „Me“ to stop. If necessary, the transport police will be called in. The number of fire alarms with the corresponding consequences for railway operations and emergency services should be as close to zero as possible. I had three over the last few years and it is more than enough.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Can’t dispute the noxious nature of ICE exhausts but they don’t envelop me by happening a couple of feet from my face or in enclosed spaces.

I don't know, but people may perceive that differently if such exhaust did in fact carry an odour. I suspect there are places where concentrations are quite high.

 

[side effect]

A few months ago on the Elizabeth line around Ilford a young man lit up a metal pipe. The lady next to him quickly got up and moved. It was just for a minute and then he went begging, on his knees sometimes. I don't know what it was he was doing .