Isle of Wight Island line updates/news

[birchesgreen]

To be fair to this MP, he was born in 1984 and therefore around 10 at the time of privatisation, and individuals do not necessarily have to agree with the entire agenda of the party they belong to on a personal or local level.

Maybe but some parts of the agenda are so fundamental to a party its hard to see how you can be a member without agreeing with it.

 

[weeklycommuter]

I can't believe that there would be any rationale or enthusiasm for nationalising the Wightlink car ferry routes. The fastcat route via Ryde pier is effectively a completely separate operation and could be split off and incorporated into the SWR / Island Line system. I can't see it ever happening though.

I agree that if the Government can be persuaded to do so the foot passenger only fastcat service which was originally a rail ferry between Portsmouth Harbour and Ryde Pier Head should be returned to public ownership and made part of Great British Railways and the Portsmouth-Fishbourne and Lymington-Yarmouth car ferries left with Wightlink who may in any case be more interested in the car ferries than the fastcat. This would make sense as the fastcat service arriving at the end of the 680 metre long Ryde Pier and connecting with the mainland railway at Portsmouth Harbour Station is the differentiator that makes the Island Line train service so useful and necessary. With the closure of the tram in 1969 the Island Line provides the only public transport along Ryde Pier which carries passengers all the way to and from the fastcat at the end of Ryde Pier. The Island Line also provides a direct train service all the way between the fastcat and Smallbrook Junction for the Isle of Wight Steam Railway, Brading, Sandown and Shanklin. I have used the Island Line train service many times together with a mainland train to Portsmouth Harbour and the fastcat to travel to Smallbrook Junction for the Isle of Wight Steam Railway and to Sandown and Shanklin. We just need the work on Ryde Pier to be finally completed so the Island Line can provide this service again.

 

[Russel]

Do we know when in May the pier is expected to reopen, start, end?

Naively assuming the works don't over run, of course!

 

[Towers]

I agree that if the Government can be persuaded to do so the foot passenger only fastcat service which was originally a rail ferry between Portsmouth Harbour and Ryde Pier Head should be returned to public ownership and made part of Great British Railways and the Portsmouth-Fishbourne and Lymington-Yarmouth car ferries left with Wightlink who may in any case be more interested in the car ferries than the fastcat. This would make sense as the fastcat service arriving at the end of the 680 metre long Ryde Pier and connecting with the mainland railway at Portsmouth Harbour Station is the differentiator that makes the Island Line train service so useful and necessary. With the closure of the tram in 1969 the Island Line provides the only public transport along Ryde Pier which carries passengers all the way to and from the fastcat at the end of Ryde Pier. The Island Line also provides a direct train service all the way between the fastcat and Smallbrook Junction for the Isle of Wight Steam Railway, Brading, Sandown and Shanklin. I have used the Island Line train service many times together with a mainland train to Portsmouth Harbour and the fastcat to travel to Smallbrook Junction for the Isle of Wight Steam Railway and to Sandown and Shanklin. We just need the work on Ryde Pier to be finally completed so the Island Line can provide this service again.

I very strongly suspect there is no way the government will want to add shipping to its list of obligations. This is a notoriously difficult sector and Wightlink itself has experienced industrial action in recent years, represented as many seafarers are by none other than the RMT. Having made costly agreements with the union on the rail front, I doubt that even a Labour government would wish to end up beholden to them in the shipping industry as well. Isle of Wight routes are a particularly hot potato as there are also the constant cries of ‘rip off’ from those who choose to live on the island but then take issue with the cost of getting to the mainland.

All in all, best avoided - I really can’t see it!

 

[hermit]

I very strongly suspect there is no way the government will want to add shipping to its list of obligations. This is a notoriously difficult sector and Wightlink itself has experienced industrial action in recent years, represented as many seafarers are by none other than the RMT. Having made costly agreements with the union on the rail front, I doubt that even a Labour government would wish to end up beholden to them in the shipping industry as well. Isle of Wight routes are a particularly hot potato as there are also the constant cries of ‘rip off’ from those who choose to live on the island but then take issue with the cost of getting to the mainland.

All in all, best avoided - I really can’t see it!

I agree that nationalisation is not on the cards, for any number of reasons. For what it’s worth, my view is that some sort of public service obligation would be the only way to rein in the rampant profiteering of Wightlink and Red Funnel by imposing limits on fares and ensuring services run at times to meet ithe island’s needs. This has worked for buses in London and is now being applied elsewhere. Some subsidy might be required, but still modest compared with the public funds going into other transport modes.

As for the argument that ‘you knew it was an island when you moved there, put up with it’, I would make two points. Firstly, most people on the island had no choice, they were born here. And secondly, fares have risen, and services declined, much more than anyone could have expected. I have a Wightlink leaflet from 1992 - a 3 day return from Fishbourne to Portsmouth with car at this time of year cost £27.50. Booking today would cost £156. In summer the disparity is even greater, with returns well north of £200. When I moved here, it was possible to have an evening out by train in London and still return to the island. Not now. So I suggest our complants are quite justified.

 

[Towers]

I agree that nationalisation is not on the cards, for any number of reasons. For what it’s worth, my view is that some sort of public service obligation would be the only way to rein in the rampant profiteering of Wightlink and Red Funnel by imposing limits on fares and ensuring services run at times to meet ithe island’s needs. This has worked for buses in London and is now being applied elsewhere. Some subsidy might be required, but still modest compared with the public funds going into other transport modes.

As for the argument that ‘you knew it was an island when you moved there, put up with it’, I would make two points. Firstly, most people on the island had no choice, they were born here. And secondly, fares have risen, and services declined, much more than anyone could have expected. I have a Wightlink leaflet from 1992 - a 3 day return from Fishbourne to Portsmouth with car at this time of year cost £27.50. Booking today would cost £156. In summer the disparity is even greater, with returns well north of £200. When I moved here, it was possible to have an evening out by train in London and still return to the island. Not now. So I suggest our complants are quite justified.

I love the Island, and if life permitted it’d be top of my list of places to relocate to! I completely understand the complaints, fares are indeed horrendous - I’ve pondered a quick flight over and back via Hovertravel on a few spare days this year, but I struggle to square it costing north of thirty quid for ten minutes each way! But if I were a resident and it was a significant issue, I think relocation to the mainland would probably be my way forward. That won’t be an option for everyone, I realise.

 

[Cesarcollie]

I agree that nationalisation is not on the cards, for any number of reasons. For what it’s worth, my view is that some sort of public service obligation would be the only way to rein in the rampant profiteering of Wightlink and Red Funnel by imposing limits on fares and ensuring services run at times to meet ithe island’s needs. This has worked for buses in London and is now being applied elsewhere. Some subsidy might be required, but still modest compared with the public funds going into other transport modes.

As for the argument that ‘you knew it was an island when you moved there, put up with it’, I would make two points. Firstly, most people on the island had no choice, they were born here. And secondly, fares have risen, and services declined, much more than anyone could have expected. I have a Wightlink leaflet from 1992 - a 3 day return from Fishbourne to Portsmouth with car at this time of year cost £27.50. Booking today would cost £156. In summer the disparity is even greater, with returns well north of £200. When I moved here, it was possible to have an evening out by train in London and still return to the island. Not now. So I suggest our complants are quite justified.

Buses in London do not have a PSO. They are contracted! I suppose in theory the government could confiscate the business of the IOW ferries and then let contracts specifying frequency and fares. But then of course they would bear the financial burden.

 

[Russel]

I love the Island, and if life permitted it’d be top of my list of places to relocate to! I completely understand the complaints, fares are indeed horrendous - I’ve pondered a quick flight over and back via Hovertravel on a few spare days this year, but I struggle to square it costing north of thirty quid for ten minutes each way! But if I were a resident and it was a significant issue, I think relocation to the mainland would probably be my way forward. That won’t be an option for everyone, I realise.

The fares are off-putting...

I've been looking at visiting with my 8 year old for 12 months now, but the cost of the ferry puts me off every time, Lichfield to Euston then Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour for the two of us with an F&F railcard comes out at about £50 advance max, yet the ferry for the two of us is going to be around £40 minimum.

How can a 170 mile journey, cost only £10 more than a 20 minute ferry?

 

[DelW]

The fares are off-putting...

I've been looking at visiting with my 8 year old for 12 months now, but the cost of the ferry puts me off every time, Lichfield to Euston then Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour for the two of us with an F&F railcard comes out at about £50 advance max, yet the ferry for the two of us is going to be around £40 minimum.

How can a 170 mile journey, cost only £10 more than a 20 minute ferry?

Have you checked through fares to Island Line stations? Your railcard does get you (effectively) a discount on the Wightlink fare if you book through. Sometimes a railcard fare from e.g. Fratton to Esplanade will come up as less than the Wightlink ferry-only fare.

 

[Russel]

Have you checked through fares to Island Line stations? Your railcard does get you (effectively) a discount on the Wightlink fare if you book through. Sometimes a railcard fare from e.g. Fratton to Esplanade will come up as less than the Wightlink ferry-only fare.

Just checked a random weekday early next year on National Rail, it's still coming out at £33 min, although lower, it's still a lot.

Thinking about it, I can travel from Canary Wharf into Central London on an Uber boat for around £10, maybe a couple of miles less but similar journey time.

 

[DelW]

Just checked a random weekday early next year on National Rail, it's still coming out at £33 min, although lower, it's still a lot.

Thinking about it, I can travel from Canary Wharf into Central London on an Uber boat for around £10, maybe a couple of miles less but similar journey time.

The effect of a near-monopoly - the fare is driven by what the market will bear, not by what it costs to provide + a reasonable profit margin.

There are lots of competing ways of getting from Canary Wharf to Central London which limit what people are willing to pay. But not so many to & from Ryde ...

 

[Towers]

The effect of a near-monopoly - the fare is driven by what the market will bear, not by what it costs to provide + a reasonable profit margin.

There are lots of competing ways of getting from Canary Wharf to Central London which limit what people are willing to pay. But not so many to & from Ryde ...

Conversely, most of the modes of transport for getting from Canary Wharf to central London are heavily subsidised, by an organisation (TfL) who are in considerable financial trouble partly as a result of ensuring that fares are artifically cheap.

I’m not defending fares to the Isle of Wight, they’re clearly excessive, but TfL isn’t really much of a comparison!

 

[Russel]

I’m not defending fares to the Isle of Wight, they’re clearly excessive, but TfL isn’t really much of a comparison!

Thames Clippers are a commercial operation though, aren't they, so not subsidised?

 

[hermit]

Do we know when in May the pier is expected to reopen, start, end?

Naively assuming the works don't over run, of course!

The SWR website says ‘early May’ but I wouldn’t place any reliance at all on that, given the history of enormous overruns on previous Island Line projects. To be fair to the contractors, the pier is a very challenging environment to work in, and progress must be dependent on reasonable weather. I can’t imagine much work was carried out during Storm Darragh, for example, other than tying things down.

The replacement minibus arrangements are now working better than before, with improved signage at both ends. So the main drawback is the time penalty involved in making an extra change. There is even an improvement in one small respect - the 2145 cat from Portsmouth has a minibus connection, whereas nothing meets it when trains are running.

 

[Towers]

Thames Clippers are a commercial operation though, aren't they, so not subsidised?

I’ve no idea, but clearly operating essentially as a bus service in the heart of TfL land means that fares have to be competitive, private venture or not.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Dec 2024 ==

The SWR website says ‘early May’ but I wouldn’t place any reliance at all on that, given the history of enormous overruns on previous Island Line projects. To be fair to the contractors, the pier is a very challenging environment to work in, and progress must be dependent on reasonable weather. I can’t imagine much work was carried out during Storm Darragh, for example, other than tying things down.

The replacement minibus arrangements are now working better than before, with improved signage at both ends. So the main drawback is the time penalty involved in making an extra change. There is even an improvement in one small respect - the 2145 cat from Portsmouth has a minibus connection, whereas nothing meets it when trains are running.

Might it have been cheaper overall to permanently curtail the railway line at Esplanade and run some sort of small electric bus/tram/whatever on a ‘pier shuttle’ service, I wonder? A small fare for casual riders, no charge for those holding boat and/or rail tickets. Use some of the funding to reinstate the second Esplanade platform with a view to an enhanced service one day, maybe?

 

[hermit]

One of the petrol-engined tramcars that trundled up and down the pier until the 1960s
has been restored and is ready and waiting on the Steam Railway at Haven Street! But the track on which it ran has been turned into a (rather pleasant) pedestrian walkway.

I doubt whether there would have been large savings anyway - it’s the pier itself which is the expense, regardless of what runs on it.

 

[Russel]

The SWR website says ‘early May’ but I wouldn’t place any reliance at all on that, given the history of enormous overruns on previous Island Line projects. To be fair to the contractors, the pier is a very challenging environment to work in, and progress must be dependent on reasonable weather. I can’t imagine much work was carried out during Storm Darragh, for example, other than tying things down.

Given the work is almost certain to run over into the summer anyway, as you say, there's a history of it on the island, it makes me wonder why they didn't just wait until about March to start and work over the nicer months.

Working on a pier over winter is just asking for trouble.

 

[hermit]

Given the work is almost certain to run over into the summer anyway, as you say, there's a history of it on the island, it makes me wonder why they didn't just wait until about March to start and work over the nicer months.

Working on a pier over winter is just asking for trouble.

That would have impinged on our summer visitors, of which we still have quite a lot, though obviously nowhere near as many as in the island’s heyday as a holiday destination. i think the timing is as good as it could be.

 

[Russel]

That would have impinged on our summer visitors, of which we still have quite a lot, though obviously nowhere near as many as in the island’s heyday as a holiday destination. i think the timing is as good as it could be.

But as I said, the work is almost certain to overrun into the summer anyway.

 

[Chris125]

But as I said, the work is almost certain to overrun into the summer anyway.

Looking at the progress so far I think that's unlikely.

 

[Gloster]

I read in the last few days, although I can’t remember where, that they were progressing well and expected to finish on time. If I remember correctly, the work being done now is basically work that should that should have been done during the last closure, even though that overran.

 

[Russel]

Looking at the progress so far I think that's unlikely.

That's good to hear, also rather surprising, given the recent track record of work on the Island Line.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Might it have been cheaper overall to permanently curtail the railway line at Esplanade and run some sort of small electric bus/tram/whatever on a ‘pier shuttle’ service, I wonder?

That would rather negate the original reason for keeping the line in 1967, when the rest of the IOW network was scrapped.
- The line along the pier had to stay open to carry ferry passengers.
- It only continued to St Johns Road because that's where the depot was.
- And, given that St Johns Road was not a suitable place to dump a (seven-car!) trainload of passengers, continuing to Sandown was the best option.

 

[norbitonflyer]

One of the petrol-engined tramcars that trundled up and down the pier until the 1960s
has been restored and is ready and waiting on the Steam Railway at Haven Street! But the track on which it ran has been turned into a (rather pleasant) pedestrian walkway.

That's given me an idea. There are a number of projects in hand to preserve EMUs, but nowhere to run them, as no preserved railway would get permission to install live rails even if they wanted to.

But here is a self-contained line already equipped for 3rd Rail. A service run by 4SUB, 4COR, 2BIL, 313, 4DD etc would be an attraction. (yes, you may need to form hybrid units as there are no complete units left of some of these classes)

They could run alongside the 484s, which are arguably museum pieces already. Possibly other ex LT stock as it is becoming increasingly difficult to run it on LUL's own network because of signalling incompatibility). You might even manage to fit shoegear to the AM6 or AM9 (bypassing the transgformer and rectifier of course).

Reliability, given it is provising a public service? Well, with enough heritage units you can get away with quite a low overall availaibility figure, and the 484s are there to cover anyway.

 

[fisher2511]

That's given me an idea. There are a number of projects in hand to preserve EMUs, but nowhere to run them, as no preserved railway would get permission to install live rails even if they wanted to.

But here is a self-contained line already equipped for 3rd Rail. A service run by 4SUB, 4COR, 2BIL, 313, 4DD etc would be an attraction. (yes, you may need to form hybrid units as there are no complete units left of some of these classes)

They could run alongside the 484s, which are arguably museum pieces already. Possibly other ex LT stock as it is becoming increasingly difficult to run it on LUL's own network because of signalling incompatibility). You might even manage to fit shoegear to the AM6 or AM9 (bypassing the transgformer and rectifier of course).

Reliability, given it is provising a public service? Well, with enough heritage units you can get away with quite a low overall availaibility figure, and the 484s are there to cover anyway.

They wouldn’t fit under the Ryde tunnel.

 

[TheLancsNinja]

The fares are off-putting...

I've been looking at visiting with my 8 year old for 12 months now, but the cost of the ferry puts me off every time, Lichfield to Euston then Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour for the two of us with an F&F railcard comes out at about £50 advance max, yet the ferry for the two of us is going to be around £40 minimum.

How can a 170 mile journey, cost only £10 more than a 20 minute ferry?

Have you looked at the hovercraft service that runs from Southsea? It's a bit of a walk from PMH station, but you can get combined hovercraft and Island Line day ticket for a decent price, plus the novelty of commuting across the Solent by hovercraft can't be matched!

EDIT: Here you go. A bit more than the ferry, but you do get all day on the Island Line included.

Hover Rover Bus & Rail | Hover Travel

Hovertravel & unlimited bus travel around the Island (Hover Rover Bus) or Hovertravel & unlimited Island Line Train travel between Ryde & Shanklin

www.hovertravel.co.uk

 

[hermit]

Have you looked at the hovercraft service that runs from Southsea? It's a bit of a walk from PMH station, but you can get combined hovercraft and Island Line day ticket for a decent price, plus the novelty of commuting across the Solent by hovercraft can't be matched!

EDIT: Here you go. A bit more than the ferry, but you do get all day on the Island Line included.

Hover Rover Bus & Rail | Hover Travel

Hovertravel & unlimited bus travel around the Island (Hover Rover Bus) or Hovertravel & unlimited Island Line Train travel between Ryde & Shanklin

www.hovertravel.co.uk

You don’t have to walk - the Hoverbus connects from both Harbour and Southsea stations to all sailings.

 

[norbitonflyer]

They wouldn’t fit under the Ryde tunnel.

No need. Just run them between St Johns Road and Sandown - the 484s can run connections to the pier.
But BR EMUs might fit - changes to the Tunnel (replacing the roof with shallower beams) since 1967 mean that LUL surface stock now fits, where Tube stock was needed before

 

[Russel]

Have you looked at the hovercraft service that runs from Southsea? It's a bit of a walk from PMH station, but you can get combined hovercraft and Island Line day ticket for a decent price, plus the novelty of commuting across the Solent by hovercraft can't be matched!

EDIT: Here you go. A bit more than the ferry, but you do get all day on the Island Line included.

Hover Rover Bus & Rail | Hover Travel

Hovertravel & unlimited bus travel around the Island (Hover Rover Bus) or Hovertravel & unlimited Island Line Train travel between Ryde & Shanklin

www.hovertravel.co.uk

Didn't know about these tickets, but it's still on the pricey side, £35 adult, £18 child... It looks like the cheapest way to do it is an off-peak return with F&F railcard from Portsmouth Hbr to Ryde Esplanade £20.35 adult £12.40 child.

On a side note, how well do the Ryde - Portsmouth Harbour ferrys run, are they fairly good at time keeping, they look to have a 7 minute connection at Portsmouth for the London Waterloo train.

 

[hermit]

Didn't know about these tickets, but it's still on the pricey side, £35 adult, £18 child... It looks like the cheapest way to do it is an off-peak return with F&F railcard from Portsmouth Hbr to Ryde Esplanade £20.35 adult £12.40 child.

On a side note, how well do the Ryde - Portsmouth Harbour ferrys run, are they fairly good at time keeping, they look to have a 7 minute connection at Portsmouth for the London Waterloo train.

As a regular user of this connection, I reckon to make it more than 90% of the time. But there are occasions - particularly at busy holiday times, or when cruise ships or warships get in the way, or when low tides mean the cat has to go the long way round - when the connection is tight or missed altogether, and the tight ferry turnround makes it difficult for the service to recover. Nail biting if you have an advance train ticket on from Portsmouth.