Mon 9 Dec. Line blocked Oxted - Hurst Green

[Jan Mayen]

I understand a fallen tree is blocking the line between Oxted and Hurst Green. Southern are advising no trains will run.
I'm curious as to why they can't run trains on the bits that aren't blocked - East Croydon to Oxted, for example.
I'm sure there must be a good reason, but I can't see what it is. Any suggestions, please?

 

[Surreytraveller]

Can't run East Croydon to Oxted, as there's a tree blocking the line between East Croydon and Oxted.
The tree is between Woldingham and Oxted, not between Oxted and Hurst Green as per your understanding.

 

[physics34]

Depending where the tree is exactly they could run from Woldingham to London with a hand signaller at the points at the country end of the station, but it would also require a pilot man because of the obstruction. Just too much to organise short notice

 

[Surreytraveller]

Depending where the tree is exactly they could run from Woldingham to London with a hand signaller at the points at the country end of the station, but it would also require a pilot man because of the obstruction. Just too much to organise short notice

Both the Up and Down lines are blocked, so a Pilotman won't be of any use.

 

[physics34]

I hear the train stuck there has run wrong road back to Sanderstead

 

[Surreytraveller]

I hear the train stuck there has run wrong road back to Sanderstead

Several wrong direction moves have been made by different trains. The train stuck closest to the tree made a wrong direction move to Woldingham and crossed over to the Up line there

 

[4COR]

Looks like 5E09 has just used the trailing crossing at the south end of Sanderstead to go back onto the Up line, presumably to go back to Selhurst.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Just wondering why shuttles can't be arranged from Oxted to East Grinstead or Uckfield.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Just wondering why shuttles can't be arranged from Oxted to East Grinstead or Uckfield.

Do you fancy chucking trains full of commuters off trains to run them empty in the other direction?
I think they sent one train back south to clear a platform for a train trapped between stations.

 

[zwk500]

Just wondering why shuttles can't be arranged from Oxted to East Grinstead or Uckfield.

Is there much school traffic on the southern ends? Commuters from East Grinstead or Uckfield will be less than impressed being dumped at Oxted with limited onwards options until the tree is removed when they can divert themselves to Haywards Heath, Three Bridges, or Gatwick Airport before starting their rail journey.

 

[4COR]

Looks like (From: https://x.com/SouthernRailUK/status/1866027666337411316) that the tree is at 19m29c which is just on the southern side of Oxted tunnel. Here's the pic posted by @SouthernRailUK (image shows a tree leaning over a retaining wall with 19m29c painted on the wall)



Hopefully once cleared they should be able to start to recover the service.

 

[physics34]

Is there much school traffic on the southern ends? Commuters from East Grinstead or Uckfield will be less than impressed being dumped at Oxted with limited onwards options until the tree is removed when they can divert themselves to Haywards Heath, Three Bridges, or Gatwick Airport before starting their rail journey.

There actually is a reasonable amount of school traffic. With a 171 berthed at oxted and 2x 8 377s at Grinny they couldve run shuttles.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Is there much school traffic on the southern ends? Commuters from East Grinstead or Uckfield will be less than impressed being dumped at Oxted with limited onwards options until the tree is removed when they can divert themselves to Haywards Heath, Three Bridges, or Gatwick Airport before starting their rail journey.

Commuters from such stations would take the alternative buses. Perhaps the passengers from intermediate stations would like to use the train to get to East Grinstead or Uckfield, where alternative buses are easier to come by? Or maybe they work in East Grinstead? Just a thought.

 

[Surreytraveller]

There actually is a reasonable amount of school traffic. With a 171 berthed at oxted and 2x 8 377s at Grinny they couldve run shuttles.

Although it seems easy, there won't be any crews. The drivers stuck down there will be due breaks, or supposed to be working trains on other routes. This is what causes disruption to spread and become unmanageable - complicated crew diagramming.
Control will be too busy preventing the disruption from spreading to be able to set up shuttles, which realistically, as soon as they're set up will need to be undone when the line reopens

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Dec 2024 ==

Commuters from such stations would take the alternative buses. Perhaps the passengers from intermediate stations would like to use the train to get to East Grinstead or Uckfield, where alternative buses are easier to come by? Or maybe they work in East Grinstead? Just a thought.

Realistically, the commuters will go back and work from home, or get the car out and drive

 

[physics34]

The crew down there could do three shuttles before their PNBs.

 

[Surreytraveller]

The crew down there could do three shuttles before their PNBs.

Depends what time they booked on duty. Probably about 0400 - 0430 ish.

 

[zwk500]

Control will be too busy preventing the disruption from spreading to be able to set up shuttles, which realistically, as soon as they're set up will need to be undone when the line reopens

This is probably the biggest thing. If you send the train back down south and then the tree is cleared, you've got a long wait until a train can run northbound.

 

[Jan Mayen]

This is probably the biggest thing. If you send the train back down south and then the tree is cleared, you've got a long wait until a train can run northbound.

I think there are two trapoed electric units, so perhaps one could do a shuttle while the other waits in the other platform to head north?

 

[Taunton]

Do you fancy chucking trains full of commuters off trains to run them empty in the other direction?

This can actually be convenient for the "trains full of commuters", to return them to their starting point so they can go home and get their car out.

 

[Surreytraveller]

This can actually be convenient for the "trains full of commuters", to return them to their starting point so they can go home and get their car out.

Indeed

 

[Horizon22]

This is probably the biggest thing. If you send the train back down south and then the tree is cleared, you've got a long wait until a train can run northbound.

That often happens though when a route reopens. Obviously you just park the trains up at London Bridge / East Grinstead / Oxted or into sidings and wait events.

You could run a shuttle and pull a driver (and potentially OBS) off diagram for a few hours so long as the rest of the duty is covered.

It can get fiddly to implement but once in it can be reliable. Depends on the timeframes Southern have been provided for response staff and line reopening.

 

[Deepgreen]

Or, just remove the tree... The railway generally doesn't do short-notice and short-term railway shuttles anymore.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

As for the commuters do what I did - work from home. The Oxted line is very much white collar commuting for whom work from home is an option. Upper Warlingham people who have to get in can go to Whyteleafe, Riddlesdown to Purley and Sanderstead to Purley Oaks.