As soon as l see guff like that l just zone out from their posts. The visual equivalent of the announcements that they are moaning about.
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So many announcements, so few people taking them on board
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bramling
Veteran Member
It’s all very well saying zone out, but *how* exactly does one do that? I don’t particularly like wearing headphones or listening to music, and nor should one have to. And just because worse things happen elsewhere in life doesn’t make it right that we have to suffer such irritating nonsense, especially when it’s something that can be very easily addressed. It really is such a breath of fresh air to be on a train where the announcements aren’t functioning for whatever reason.
It wouldn’t be such a thing if there was some effort made to keep things brief, and pick people with a decent voice to do the recordings. The very original Central Line recordings were great in that respect. But now it’s almost like they seem go out of the way to pick voices which are highly irritating (like the male one I mentioned previously), and with the passage of time announcements seem to get longer and longer - first it was reminders about keeping belongings with you, then if you see something suspicious, then see it say it sorted, now on some trains you get “remember the three Rs” as well.
Not sure what right wing has to do with it, indeed the massive increase in announcement volume largely happened under the previous - right-wing - government, even if it started under one who purported to be left-wing.
The other point to make, which again just about sums up how this country as a whole functions at the moment, is that provision of information when people really need it, during disruption, is still woeful. Indeed the one time you have the likelihood of complete silence is when the service is shot to pieces. I’ve experienced that many times at stations, presumably because the automated systems become so unreliable that staff just switch everything off in order to stop completely misleading stuff going out.
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DarloRich
Veteran Member
The same way you zone out a pub bore or a dull work meeting. I am not sure what the mental or physical actions required to do so are are but we all do it all the time. Just do the same here. Save your emotional energy for something that matters.
BTW - I might have some sympathy with an argument that the number of announcements mean people will/do zone out meaning they miss something really important but I have no truck with this overblown aural trauma nonsense!
bramling
Veteran Member
I might have agreed with the second point 10-15 years ago, but things have gone too far since. There really is too much now. Perhaps not everyone’s the same, however I like to be able to enjoy my own thoughts, not have patronising rubbish delivered in an increasingly primary-school-like manner, complete with in some cases people putting on silly voices.
And as I said elsewhere, when information *really* is needed or desired … there’s often complete silence.
Another point to make, the barrage of announcements is extremely disruptive for staff attempting to perform important and often safety-critical communications by telephone or radio. Another thing that those who advocate all this fail to consider the implications of.
CaptainHaddock
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So if some chav got on the train, sat next to you and started playing gangster rap music at full volume, you'd happily just "zone out" and not be bothered in the slightest?
In many ways excessive announcements are exactly the same as said chav forcing his music on you; an incessant outpouring of unwanted, unnecessary and annoying aural pollution. It's very arrogant of you to presume that just because it doesn't bother you, we should all be forced to endure it.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
One wonders how soldiers manage to call in an air strike when under fire? All that banning and crashing and shouting.
This, again, seems like a non issue. Communication ( and I have done critical communication) is never done in the prefect, silent world. Well, outside of the training school............
Personally I find the voices in my head drown out the other noises
Perhaps I have a different level of tolerance or calm to posters here but I have no problem enjoying my own thoughts on a train. Don't let it annoy you. You have the ability to do that. Try it.
you would ask them to stop.
However I would suggest that a constant noise is very different to a transitory noise that happens on an infrequent basis and at a relatively low tempo and volume.
it really isn't but you already know this.
yoyothehobo
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Was on a TPE service and the guard was talking for about 5 minutes following leaving the station, generally repeating information. Passengers were looking genuinely irritated by it as it was impossible to have a conversation or focus on anything else whilst it was ongoing.
The thing is, it's not that low a volume. Class 444 trains have excellent speakers (unfortunately), and the volume often reaches 87+ db. And when the announcements can last the entire way from Waterloo to Clapham Junction, and then for two minutes after every stop, it gets too much. I used to think it was affecting only me, but I have noticed other passengers get visibly annoyed with them now. Noise-cancelling headphones are a must.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
BTW - this is a point I DO agree with you on
Deepgreen
Established Member
If the crew can, and do, turn off the automated announcements, they can't be that important, whether they then choose to read them out manually or not. I count myself lucky that, having had a railway career, I am astute enough about what is going on to be able to wear in-ear phones and blot out all this bilge.
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The difference is between 'official' noise and unofficial. There is recourse for the latter, but none for the former.
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Indeed - I have been on many Southern 377s where the p.a. was comically (almost) loud. I assume it was a fault (on many different trains) as I would hope that the volume control doesn't "go up to 11"!
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You do realise that the next step will be to put the Ss to rap and broadcast as such... For the youff, innit, lol.
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renegademaster
Established Member
For a few months TfL buses had "please hold on , this bus is ready to move" announcement, then it just went away. The constant announcements can be reduced. The driver has buttons for a bunch of safety related announcements, theirs one about buggies and one about wheelchairs but they only play them when actually relevant. TfL bus announcements are very short and to the point, meanwhile on the other side of the M25 , Metrobus announcements seem more like trains.
I appreciate the sentiment behind it but TfWland is a mess announcement wise, you have all the same excessive announcements as a typical British station but everything has to be repeated in Welsh. European countries have bilingual announcements but as they don't have as many to begin with it doesn't feel as much as endless wall of noise being on a Welsh train feels like
I appreciate the sentiment behind it but TfWland is a mess announcement wise, you have all the same excessive announcements as a typical British station but everything has to be repeated in Welsh. European countries have bilingual announcements but as they don't have as many to begin with it doesn't feel as much as endless wall of noise being on a Welsh train feels like
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My local council doesn't bother gritting anything. More double standards. When I cycled home, I could see the ice on the road surface, even on main roads.
As for slipping, I've nearly fallen over at St Pancras (South Eastern) and Manchester Piccadilly on drizzly days. Clearly the solution is to build the platforms using less slippery materials. Broadcasting announcements don't make the surface less slippery. For the avoidance of doubt, I'm perfectly capable of walking on most surfaces on a wet day without slipping.
Shouting at someone putting themselves, or others, in potential danger can be justified. Continual shouting when no one is standing over the yellow line or showing any sign of being about to do so is not justified and just makes for an unpleasant experience.
Especially when the train in question is travelling between Manchester and Chester/Hereford or Birmingham and Shrewsbury without entering Wales.
CHESHIRECAT
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Regarding yellow lines maybe off at a tangent
Text of complaint regarding LNER platform person at York that I've made
'Waiting for delayed 1805 to Manchester
Walked slightly over yellow line and was shouted at by female member of staff (for identity only she had nose ring) to stand behind yellow line
I responded in jovial manner saying I would if there was a train coming!
She came up to me in a confrontational way saying Yes I work here and how did I know a freight train wasn't going to come hurtling through;at which point I left her rather than risk further issues
I found her attutude appalling; I'm a 64 year old man and am quite aware that no train would come 'hurtling ' through York
At the risk of being judgemental she seemed to be on a power trip
Text of complaint regarding LNER platform person at York that I've made
'Waiting for delayed 1805 to Manchester
Walked slightly over yellow line and was shouted at by female member of staff (for identity only she had nose ring) to stand behind yellow line
I responded in jovial manner saying I would if there was a train coming!
She came up to me in a confrontational way saying Yes I work here and how did I know a freight train wasn't going to come hurtling through;at which point I left her rather than risk further issues
I found her attutude appalling; I'm a 64 year old man and am quite aware that no train would come 'hurtling ' through York
At the risk of being judgemental she seemed to be on a power trip
Let's get this right. "you have all the same excessive announcements as a typical British station but everything has to be prefaced in English".
renegademaster
Established Member
Either way you look it at , same end result.
Discuss223
Member
Yes, I agree. Manchester Piccadilly is bad for this "there are four doors on this train, use them all" "move down the train" etc, needs to be said politely.
bramling
Veteran Member
One wonders how soldiers manage to call in an air strike when under fire? All that banning and crashing and shouting.
This, again, seems like a non issue. Communication ( and I have done critical communication) is never done in the prefect, silent world. Well, outside of the training school............
It’s an issue. What do you do if one party can’t hear the other, and the volume is already on maximum? Oops a vital detail has been missed and we’re on our way to having a mess-up, perhaps safety related. At best a load of time is wasted whilst people have to repeat stuff potentially several times.
Personally I find the voices in my head drown out the other noises
Perhaps I have a different level of tolerance or calm to posters here but I have no problem enjoying my own thoughts on a train.
I think the issue here is that people are different. You may find it easy to “zone out”. Not everyone does. And what’s so valuable about these announcements that you or I should need to zone out? If a proportion of people find them irritating, then surely it’s worth looking at whether they’re really necessary, or are being delivered in the best (ie most concise) way?
As an example, on a class 387 if the driver edits out a station call from the trip, then the whole “welcome aboard this service to; calling at …” message plays, for each individual edit made. So if seven stations are removed, as can happen, you’ll have the announcement play 7 times - and still without actually drawing anyone’s attention to the fact that something has changed. Is this really sensible and defensible?
The approach of “don’t let it annoy you” means that nothing bad ever changes.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
well that is just stupid!
it is not let everything bad go. Rather focus on what actually matters.
They do go away if I drive instead.
Purple Train
Established Member
Are there too many announcements? Yes. Will having far fewer announcements solve anything? No.
There are announcements that those of us who post here - railway fans, experts, professionals - think are superfluous, unnecessary, or overly basic: calling patterns, train formations, and the like. Let's face it, this forum is not an accurate representation of the experiences or views of the average passenger. Then there is the genuine nonsense - "while on the stairs, please use the handrail and take care" doesn't need to be triggered every time someone breathes near the footbridge at Slough - but, in my experience, that is very much the minority of announcements that are made. My real gripe is the clutter of signage, but I think that's more a neatness and order problem!
There are announcements that those of us who post here - railway fans, experts, professionals - think are superfluous, unnecessary, or overly basic: calling patterns, train formations, and the like. Let's face it, this forum is not an accurate representation of the experiences or views of the average passenger. Then there is the genuine nonsense - "while on the stairs, please use the handrail and take care" doesn't need to be triggered every time someone breathes near the footbridge at Slough - but, in my experience, that is very much the minority of announcements that are made. My real gripe is the clutter of signage, but I think that's more a neatness and order problem!
renegademaster
Established Member
Who is claiming it to be a solution. It will just make things nicer and it's a good thing when things become nicer
The bloke on my train tonight clearly didn't get the message. Not that he was the listening sort.
I'd sooner be whinged about on a forum than find myself in a criminal court.
I'm now picturing Sgt Wilson: "would you chaps all mind using all available doors, quick as you can, that's it"
To get a message understood on a crowded platform as few syllables as possible should be used: "use all doors" is clear and concise.
Discuss223
Member
Customers aren't cattle, unless it's safety critical or an abusive situation, it's not acceptable to be barking at them - a please and thank you goes a long way.
The key issue is that British "safety" culture has, for many years, been to do the minimum (and thereby the least effective solution, second only to PPE) because it's the cheapest and most achievable, and everything else gets de-scoped. Adding a "safety" announcement or a sign creates the fiction that something has been done, even if it is effectively useless and people can't do anything with the information.
As for the increasing proliferation on a certain former NSE region operator: No-one who's determined to travel without paying a fare, or get p*ssed and be abusive to railway staff, will pay any mind to an announcement threatening them with a penalty fare or body-worn cameras. But normal punters, who've likely paid through the nose for their ticket, will. It doesn't inspire confidence in the experience of travelling by train in general.
As for the increasing proliferation on a certain former NSE region operator: No-one who's determined to travel without paying a fare, or get p*ssed and be abusive to railway staff, will pay any mind to an announcement threatening them with a penalty fare or body-worn cameras. But normal punters, who've likely paid through the nose for their ticket, will. It doesn't inspire confidence in the experience of travelling by train in general.
"Please use all doors" said loudly, firmly but politely is fine. Manically screaming "use all doors" is not.
jagardner1984
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- 11 May 2008
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Particularly enjoyed on the Cal Sleeper the other night, reading the “for us getting a good night’s sleep is important, there will be no announcements during disruption, would you like to host to inform you if the train will be delayed” on the breakfast card. Smart way of doing it I thought. Filled it in, shoved it on the door, settled in. Could hear various other people boarding, families etc trying to settle kids before the train departed.
30 mins later (still in Euston), vaguely drifting off ….
“IF YOU SEE SOMETHING THAT DOESN’T LOOK RIGHT ….”
3 times, one after the other, through the room PA at full volume.
Given almost all people will be travelling alone, or with their partner / known companion, in a space the size of a shoe box, in a room they require key card entry to, and which they have to be checked into by a member of staff, this must be up there with the most stupid examples of the electronic diarrhoea ?
Would be interesting to know, when the 10th Anniversary of that particular campaign is reached in November 2016, how many times they estimate it has been played across the network and how many severe incidents it has provably prevented.
On the basis that car accident statistics would be drastically improved if we all stayed at home stationary for the remainder of our lives, and doing anything at all carries some level of risk, perhaps we might enter the second decade with a little more faith in our fellow humans sitting nonchalantly next to the unattended rucksack with the ticking alarm clock and wires poking out, sitting wondering whether that text number finishes … 61014 or 61016. If only they’d had someone to read it out to them multiple times this minute.
30 mins later (still in Euston), vaguely drifting off ….
“IF YOU SEE SOMETHING THAT DOESN’T LOOK RIGHT ….”
3 times, one after the other, through the room PA at full volume.
Given almost all people will be travelling alone, or with their partner / known companion, in a space the size of a shoe box, in a room they require key card entry to, and which they have to be checked into by a member of staff, this must be up there with the most stupid examples of the electronic diarrhoea ?
Would be interesting to know, when the 10th Anniversary of that particular campaign is reached in November 2016, how many times they estimate it has been played across the network and how many severe incidents it has provably prevented.
On the basis that car accident statistics would be drastically improved if we all stayed at home stationary for the remainder of our lives, and doing anything at all carries some level of risk, perhaps we might enter the second decade with a little more faith in our fellow humans sitting nonchalantly next to the unattended rucksack with the ticking alarm clock and wires poking out, sitting wondering whether that text number finishes … 61014 or 61016. If only they’d had someone to read it out to them multiple times this minute.
Howardh
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And I bet he didn't say there was a trolley service on board and where it was?!
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