Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[norbitonflyer]

In the NSE days, there was still differentiation. Your class 455 would either have had a South Western Lines or South London Lines logo on, depending on the division.

Very subtle, and I doubt many people noticed, or cared. Is this train for Dorking or is it for Guildford?

And before NSE they all looked exactly the same anyway - and could even swap back and forth between divisions if the need arose. A 4SUB or EPB could, in theory, arrive at Dorking from Waterloo, go back to London Bridge, go "round the houses" to Holborn Viaduct, out to Orpington and back to Charing Cross.

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As a long suffering Waterloo-Reading line user we can but hope that Labour will throw some resource at SWR for it to become a poster child for nationalisation. For a start when 701's are in full service it will be good to have 4 tph on the peak services - the demand is there on this route.

If they do, you can be sure people up North will point out that the South is again getting improvements that Northern hasn't had.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

I simply think the DFT will look at it on a cost basis and keep it as it is, only changing when new rolling stock orders go out as required.

Yes I think this too.

 

[mansonlo49]

701504/503 5Q87

ok thanks

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There's another 701 transfer to long marston on friday, just wondering how come nearly 1 year of service they're still transferring units away to storage

 

[D365]

There's another 701 transfer to long marston on friday, just wondering how come nearly 1 year of service they're still transferring units away to storage

Because they don't have space on the SWR network with the 455s still in service.

 

[swr444]

It's a wonder then that other TOCs are managing to increase service levels then. Wonder how they do it... Easy to blame the DfT for the recruitment freeze, but it takes two to tango as the saying goes.

Let's hope more positive times for SWR lie ahead. I say hope, because there has to be hope.

SWR are struggling to retain new guards due to the new pay deal.

 

[mansonlo49]

Because they don't have space on the SWR network with the 455s still in service.

I see, thank you

 

[JonathanH]

A 4SUB or EPB could, in theory, arrive at Dorking from Waterloo, go back to London Bridge, go "round the houses" to Holborn Viaduct, out to Orpington and back to Charing Cross.

Yes, but they didn't, did they. What did happen was some rebalancing of rolling stock fleets at timetable changes to suit the operational needs, but to some extent that has continued to happen since.

 

[Carlisle]

In the NSE days, there was still differentiation. Your class 455 would either have had a South Western Lines or South London Lines logo on, depending on the division.

Not initially, ‘Route Branding’ came in a little while after NSE actually started.

 

[Recessio]

I simply think the DFT will look at it on a cost basis and keep it as it is, only changing when new rolling stock orders go out as required.

Exactly. It took until 2006 to get rid of the last NSE livery units. The DfT won't waste money repainting the 701s when they've only just entered service. It would be yet another delay to introduction if they have to be rotated out to get painted or vinyled

 

[meld3]

Easy to blame the DfT for the recruitment freeze, but it takes two to tango as the saying goes.

Not when one is a Private and the other is the Air Vice Marshall.....

 

[I_am_Nobody]

SWR are struggling to retain new guards due to the new pay deal.

Having spoken to a friend who has recently started as a Guard at SWR, they're also struggling to retain guards due to them being paid considerably less than their colleagues for the first two years for doing the same job, and on top of that expected to work to a higher standard. Why stay when you can leverage the short experience elsewhere on the railway and get paid better and have better T&Cs AND not deal with the chaotic mess of a hellhole that is Waterloo?

When my friend laid everything bare, I was rather glad to not be in that position.

Admittedly that's all beyond the scope of this thread... 701s, not a great train but it's what SWR have and they (or as the case will end up being, the DfT Operator) need to pull their fingers out and get them properly signed off and in service now! Oh look at me, I can be on topic...

 

[D365]

701s, not a great train but it's what SWR have and they (or as the case will end up being, the DfT Operator) need to pull their fingers out and get them properly signed off and in service now! Oh look at me, I can be on topic...

From a customer perspective, I'm not aware of any significant shortcomings of the units that are in service.

 

[Snow1964]

From a customer perspective, I'm not aware of any significant shortcomings of the units that are in service.

I think that is fair, for the sparse services they actually work

But of course the reality was supposed to be introduced from Autumn 2019 with final 455s retired by December 2020, so basically got units with 4 extra years of being patched up before they go for scrap, covering for them.

 

[PG]

From a customer perspective, I'm not aware of any significant shortcomings of the units that are in service.

Perhaps @I_am_Nobody could elaborate on what issues their friend has discussed with them that are contributing to staff retention problems?
EDIT in relation to the 701s specifically.

 

[DMckduck]

Perhaps @I_am_Nobody could elaborate on what issues their friend has discussed with them that are contributing to staff retention problems?
EDIT in relation to the 701s specifically.

This probably has more to do with a certain depots trusted working location not being present on a 701...

The middle cab.

 

[Goldfish62]

Not when one is a Private and the other is the Air Vice Marshall.....

Eh?

 

[WombleGuard]

Rumbles are that driver training will be sped up because the course will basically be halved in length. Driver open, guard close will be the norm for all 701 at all stations.

 

[swr444]

Rumbles are that driver training will be sped up because the course will basically be halved in length. Driver open, guard close will be the norm for all 701 at all stations.

yup, seems to be the case, guards being signed off on DOGC only now.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Rumbles are that driver training will be sped up because the course will basically be halved in length. Driver open, guard close will be the norm for all 701 at all stations.

So finally after all these years of disputes, the 78 days of strike action from the RMT, etc etc, and then finally getting all parties to sign off on it earlier this year, they've decided to drop DCO efforts.
Mixed feelings really, as a speed up in driver training will probably mean more diagrams quicker, or at least more reliable diagrams.

 

[43096]

So finally after all these years of disputes, the 78 days of strike action from the RMT, etc etc, and then finally getting all parties to sign off on it earlier this year, they've decided to drop DCO efforts.
Mixed feelings really, as a speed up in driver training will probably mean more diagrams quicker, or at least more reliable diagrams.

There should be a re-negotiation of drivers' pay, then, as they are not doing the full role they are paid to do.

 

[DMckduck]

It didn't even get close to my prediction of a year before guards would close.

What a waste of time and money in the end.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It didn't even get close to my prediction of a year before guards would close.

What a waste of time and money in the end.

Pretty poor of the industry but will go unnoticed by MSM as to how much time and money has been wasted here but they need to get the trains into use now as their carrying the cost of two fleets.

 

[3141]

Exactly. It took until 2006 to get rid of the last NSE livery units. The DfT won't waste money repainting the 701s when they've only just entered service. It would be yet another delay to introduction if they have to be rotated out to get painted or vinyled

Additionally, most new trains come with a guarantee on the paintwork. For eight years or possibly more. If you repaint them to apply a new livery you lose that.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Pretty poor of the industry but will go unnoticed by MSM

They'll notice 4 years late, like with the windscreen wipers

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

They'll notice 4 years late, like with the windscreen wipers

They wont notice that the method of operation has been a farce. Maybe if the Transport Select Committee did an enquiry it might get beyond the railway press but it wont as GBR and HS2 will take up the committees time allocated to railways.

 

[PG]

It didn't even get close to my prediction of a year before guards would close.

What a waste of time and money in the end.

Does this mean ABDO is dead in the water too?

 

[I_am_Nobody]

Perhaps @I_am_Nobody could elaborate on what issues their friend has discussed with them that are contributing to staff retention problems?
EDIT in relation to the 701s specifically.

Thanks for enquiring, I'm afraid my friend doesn't work 701s, I did ask them cause I wanted to know more about their operation! Their main gripe when we were talking was the payscale. But alas again, that's beyond the scope of this thread.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Does this mean ABDO is dead in the water too?

That was well down the list of priorities already and I recollect another poster reporting all that was going to happen was show it worked from a contractual point of view. Its not as if they need to push more trains into the timetable anymore either.

 

[Goldfish62]

So finally after all these years of disputes, the 78 days of strike action from the RMT, etc etc, and then finally getting all parties to sign off on it earlier this year, they've decided to drop DCO efforts.

So SWR only now doing what Southern did almost a quarter of a century ago when it first introduced its Electrostars!

But as you say, if it means quicker introduction that's a good thing, plus it gives metro guards something to do.

 

[DMckduck]

So SWR only now doing what Southern did almost a quarter of a century ago when it first introduced its Electrostars!

But as you say, if it means quicker introduction that's a good thing, plus it gives metro guards something to do.

And maybe also the DFT saying we are paying these people, may aswell give them something to do.

Tories tested the water last year with the ticket office mess, and that was a very hot potato that proved destaffing the railway wasn't popular in the slightest.

Finally... the only thing holding the 701 rollout now is fit for passenger usage units, although we did see 017 today which could be seen as a positive?

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There should be a re-negotiation of drivers' pay, then, as they are not doing the full role they are paid to do.

SWR drivers and ASLEF reps have had a heavy rub of the green that's for sure!

Maybe lessons can be learned for potential negotiations around method operation in the future elsewhere.