BTP assaulted at Surbiton Station

[Highview]

This is a sad reminder of the risks the British Transport Police take with proactive policing.

"Two teenagers have been arrested after a suspected alkaline attack left two police officers in hospital and closed a busy railway station for hours." From Surrey Live website:

https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/police-officer-victim-alkaline-attack-30486063

 

[Towers]

Two kids, 14 and 16! I despair.

There need to be long, long sentences by default for those who carry substances like this around (including for children like these two, I’m afraid). Utterly abhorrent behaviour which needs nipping in the bud, before people being horribly disfigured for life becomes the ‘new knife crime’. Very pleased to hear the officers in this case appear to have escaped without any lasting effects.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Agreed. Carrying such substances is quite dangerous even before any intentional assaults on others. Quite worrying.

 

[AndrewP]

Thank goodness the injuries are not supposed to be life threatening or life changing - so dangerous and sad

 

[Deepgreen]

Two kids, 14 and 16! I despair.

There need to be long, long sentences by default for those who carry substances like this around (including for children like these two, I’m afraid). Utterly abhorrent behaviour which needs nipping in the bud, before people being horribly disfigured for life becomes the ‘new knife crime’. Very pleased to hear the officers in this case appear to have escaped without any lasting effects.

It's already well established, horrifyingly. More and more children and youths are carrying anything they think may protect them or help them rob and intimidate others.

 

[Pete_uk]

I saw a emergency vehicle site showing a HART Ambulance unit that deals in chemical substances responding to an incident not to far away from there.
Now I know.

Hope we're not going from knife crime to chemical crime.

 

[Deepgreen]

I saw a emergency vehicle site showing a HART Ambulance unit that deals in chemical substances responding to an incident not to far away from there.
Now I know.

Hope we're not going from knife crime to chemical crime.

Already happening, sadly.

 

[jon0844]

Already happening, sadly.

There's an increase in the use of acids to chemically etch train glass and interior fixtures on trains. No doubt there are TikToks out there telling people the new tricks, especially if there could be legitimate reasons to carry such materials (however obvious it might be that they're not being used for those).

 

[fgwrich]

Already happening, sadly.

Thankfully (and sadly) all Police vehicles now carry Acid Attack kits along with first aid kits to prepare for such an eventuality. I was aware of this incident when it came in, I hope all the BTP and Met officers involved are ok and won't suffer from any life changing injuries.

 

[AndrewE]

Thankfully (and sadly) all Police vehicles now carry Acid Attack kits along with first aid kits to prepare for such an eventuality. I was aware of this incident when it came in, I hope all the BTP and Met officers involved are ok and won't suffer from any life changing injuries.

I don't know whether it is deliberately being played down, but (as mentioned in post #1) alkali/caustic can be involved, and is usually far more dangerous than most acids. I would hope that the "acid" attack kits are a neutral buffer solution or powder/mask which will deal with either. If you are anywhere near a tap, plenty of running fresh water is a good start.

 

[43066]

I don't know whether it is deliberately being played down, but (as mentioned in post #1) alkali/caustic can be involved, and is usually far more dangerous than most acids. I would hope that the "acid" attack kits are a neutral buffer solution or powder/mask which will deal with either. If you are anywhere near a tap, plenty of running fresh water is a good start.

I don’t see why anything would be played down? Awful to hear. In Surbiton especially, being in a rather nice part of SW London - albeit the area around the station is fairly sketchy, from memory. Of course we as the public have a choice to avoid the “sketchy” areas, the police have no choice but to police them.

A reminder. If you enjoy expensive mechanical watches, be *very* selective about where you wear them, given the violent watch robberies that are also taking place around the capital.

London - this great city of ours - just isn’t as safe as it used to be, sadly.

 

[londonteacher]

I don’t see why anything would be played down? Awful to hear. In Surbiton especially, being in a rather nice part of SW London - albeit the area around the station is fairly sketchy, from memory. Of course we as the public have a choice to avoid the “sketchy” areas, the police have no choice but to police them.

A reminder. If you enjoy expensive mechanical watches, be *very* selective about where you wear them, given the violent watch robberies that are also taking place around the capital.

London - this great city of ours - just isn’t as safe as it used to be, sadly.

Don’t quite understand why London bashing had to come into this, it’s no more dangerous now than it ever has been. Since London was created crime has been an issue, now it is just reported more and shared in the media. Social media shares incidents more widely

Anyway back on topic, the issue is around acid attacks that acids are so easy to purchase. I’m not saying that they need to be restricted more but there is currently no age limit for the purchase of any acids according to noidnosale.com

 

[bramling]

Don’t quite understand why London bashing had to come into this, it’s no more dangerous now than it ever has been. Since London was created crime has been an issue, now it is just reported more and shared in the media. Social media shares incidents more widely

Not sure what is meant by London bashing, fact is the incident at the centre of this thread happened in London.

I feel a *lot* less safe in London compared to 20 years ago, and this isn’t simply from exposure to the media. Likewise I suspect you’ll find most railway staff who work in London feel the same, a view which will be informed by their own real-life experiences and that of their colleagues.

And from a railway point of view I suspect stats back this up, there is certainly more crime on LU now than 20 years ago, especially stuff like robbery. And this is despite improvements in CCTV quality and coverage over that time.

 

[londonteacher]

Not sure what is meant by London bashing, fact is the incident at the centre of this thread happened in London.

I feel a *lot* less safe in London compared to 20 years ago, and this isn’t simply from exposure to the media. Likewise I suspect you’ll find most railway staff who work in London feel the same, a view which will be informed by their own real-life experiences and that of their colleagues.

And from a railway point of view I suspect stats back this up, there is certainly more crime on LU now than 20 years ago, especially stuff like robbery. And this is despite improvements in CCTV quality and coverage over that time.

The point was that the attached maps of ONS statistics shared by the Daily Mail show that, although the situation in London is awful with regards to acid attacks, it is not the worst.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13550301/amp/acid-attack-map-britain-cases-soar.html

New figures today revealed the areas of England and Wales worst affected by acid attacks - as cases soared by 75 per cent in a year.

Northumbria Police recorded 81 cases of physical attacks using corrosive substances, the highest overall and nearly a fifth of the total.

This was followed by the Metropolitan police with 72, but across a population about six times as large. The third worst affected force area was the West Midlands (34 attacks) followed by Kent Police (31). Police Scotland refused to provide figures.

 

[AndrewE]

I don’t see why anything would be played down? Awful to hear. In Surbiton especially, being in a rather nice part of SW London - albeit the area around the station is fairly sketchy, from memory. Of course we as the public have a choice to avoid the “sketchy” areas, the police have no choice but to police them.

the point is that these are not acid attacks! Even though people (and even posters above) seem fixated on acid...

I said that alkalis are just as dangerous if not more so, plus easier to get hold of and dirt cheap.
I was wondering whether the powers-that-be were happy that the "alkali" bit was not being noticed to avoid giving bad people ideas...

 

[43066]

Don’t quite understand why London bashing had to come into this, it’s no more dangerous now than it ever has been. Since London was created crime has been an issue, now it is just reported more and shared in the media. Social media shares incidents more widely

No London bashing here. However I’ve lived in and around London for four decades, and my perception - not based on social media, but on direct experience - is that it has changed for the worse in recent years. I simply no longer feel as safe as I used to.

Statistics seem to bear that out:

London violent crime figures 2026| Statista

There were ******* violence against the person offences recorded by the Metropolitan Police and City of London Police Forces in London in 2025/26, an increase when compared with the previous reporting year.

www.statista.com

There were 252,545 violent crime offences recorded by the Metropolitan Police and City of London Police Forces in London in 2023/24 an increase when compared with the previous reporting year. From a low of 186,488 violent crimes in 2015/16, violent crime has increased in almost every year.

Not sure what is meant by London bashing, fact is the incident at the centre of this thread happened in London.

I feel a *lot* less safe in London compared to 20 years ago, and this isn’t simply from exposure to the media. Likewise I suspect you’ll find most railway staff who work in London feel the same, a view which will be informed by their own real-life experiences and that of their colleagues.

And from a railway point of view I suspect stats back this up, there is certainly more crime on LU now than 20 years ago, especially stuff like robbery. And this is despite improvements in CCTV quality and coverage over that time.

Agreed.

the point is that these are not acid attacks! Even though people (and even posters above) seem fixated on acid...

I said that alkalis are just as dangerous if not more so, plus easier to get hold of and dirt cheap.
I was wondering whether the powers-that-be were happy that the "alkali" bit was not being noticed to avoid giving bad people ideas...

Okay, thanks for clarifying. Although surely the key issue is that attacks involving corrosive substances are on the rise generally. Whether acids or alkalis makes little difference.

 

[enginedin]

the point is that these are not acid attacks! Even though people (and even posters above) seem fixated on acid...

Okay, thanks for clarifying. Although surely the key issue is that attacks involving corrosive substances are on the rise generally. Whether acids or alkalis makes little difference.

As someone with a chemistry degree I'd say this is symptomatic of both the lack of scientific understanding amongst the general public, and how little people seem to care about getting it right or wrong.

See also: during the pandemic when everyone was fixated on antibacterial spray. Yes, great. Except Covid is a virus....

I will admit there is a common caveat to both of these: in general, the very immediate first aid for both acid and alkali contact is the same, and most antibacterial agents will kill viruses. This doesn't stop me, and many other scientists, being frustrated about how poor most people's scientific knowledge is though.

 

[Nottingham59]

Whether acids or alkalis makes little difference.

It does make a difference to what you need to counteract them.

 

[43066]

As someone with a chemistry degree I'd say this is symptomatic of both the lack of scientific understanding amongst the general public, and how little people seem to care about getting it right or wrong.

See also: during the pandemic when everyone was fixated on antibacterial spray. Yes, great. Except Covid is a virus....

I will admit there is a common caveat to both of these: in general, the very immediate first aid for both acid and alkali contact is the same, and most antibacterial agents will kill viruses. This doesn't stop me, and many other scientists, being frustrated about how poor most people's scientific knowledge is though.

And let’s not forget surgical masks that don’t stop virus particles .

It’s certainly true that the level of knowledge generally is pretty poor, and not just on scientific matters.

It does make a difference to what you need to counteract them.

Presumably the first aid kits carried in police cars, referred to above, are relevant to both?

 

[Towers]

Drifting off-topic slightly here, but what is clear is that the way in which street crime is carried out in places like London has become far more brazen in recent years. Thieves will ride up to people and snatch mobile phones out of their hands, gangs will encircle a motorcycle and take the keys while the rider is sat at traffic lights, robberies take place involving plate glass windows being put through with lump hammers in broad daylight in front of dozens of witnesses, and so on. There has always been crime, but seldom has so much of it been so unashamedly blatant. Youths carrying weapons and children being prepeared to throw chemicals over police officers is all part of that depressing picture of escalation.

Whether or not there is actually more crime than there used to be none of us really know - people increasingly don’t report a lot of things - but there’s certainly a perception that the streets are more dangerous. We all know why of course; there are precious few police about to stop it, and little in the way of meaningful punsihment for those who do eventually get caught.

 

[jon0844]

The fact that security guards, revenue officers and the like are now allowed to intervene means people now expect to have nobody stop then committing crime in broad daylight, surrounded by people and often not even hiding their faces or worrying about leaving behind DNA/fingerprints. They know the police generally won't (or wouldn't) come to gather information or forensics. Just claim through insurance or bump up the price of your goods to make the loss back.

Some supermarket branches can lose £70k a week - not all from shoplifting (some of it is internal mistakes with deliveries etc). This will be something like a Tesco Extra, not an Express, but it gives an idea of the scale of losses and how crazy it is we've allowed things to get to where they are.

With county lines so big a deal, there are no nice quiet places you can say 'I didn't expect anything to happen here's and often these areas are rife with criminal activity because rich people are seeking to score drugs.

And with electric motorbikes (often travelling on trains) criminals have the ultimate getaway vehicles. Stealthy and super fast. The cops can't catch them on foot or in a car.

Incidents of shop/rail workers getting attacked are pretty rare but not impossible and I'm sure many verbal assaults occur ever minute of every day and never get taken further, especially on the railway where BTP is already spread so thin.

They simply can't hope to deal with the problems proactively, and will rarely be in the right place. But when they are patrolling and see something, they're at very high risk if on their own or just two - with backup some way away.

Once anyone talks about clamping down on areas and considering things like searches, people go mad and I get that historically there have been ridiculously racist implementations of stop and search, so what is the solution?

You will always have criminals but we now have opportunist criminals who have become emboldened by the fact they see nothing happen. If they thought something would happen, most wouldn't do something.

 

[norbitonflyer]

It does make a difference to what you need to counteract them.

Indeed, but First Aid is the same for both - lots and lots of water to dilute the corrosive substance.

 

[Wolfie]

Not sure what is meant by London bashing, fact is the incident at the centre of this thread happened in London.

I feel a *lot* less safe in London compared to 20 years ago, and this isn’t simply from exposure to the media. Likewise I suspect you’ll find most railway staff who work in London feel the same, a view which will be informed by their own real-life experiences and that of their colleagues.

And from a railway point of view I suspect stats back this up, there is certainly more crime on LU now than 20 years ago, especially stuff like robbery. And this is despite improvements in CCTV quality and coverage over that time.

The fact that the transport system as a whole has significantly less staff presence than was the case 20 years ago may or may not have a correlation with that. Plus of course reduced per capita numbers of police too.

 

[Lockwood]

Indeed, but First Aid is the same for both - lots and lots of water to dilute the corrosive substance.

Yep. Dilute, rinse.
Do not try to neutralise.

 

[richardderby]

No London bashing here. However I’ve lived in and around London for four decades, and my perception - not based on social media, but on direct experience - is that it has changed for the worse in recent years. I simply no longer feel as safe as I used to.

Statistics seem to bear that out:

London violent crime figures 2026| Statista

There were ******* violence against the person offences recorded by the Metropolitan Police and City of London Police Forces in London in 2025/26, an increase when compared with the previous reporting year.

www.statista.com

Agreed.



Okay, thanks for clarifying. Although surely the key issue is that attacks involving corrosive substances are on the rise generally. Whether acids or alkalis makes little difference.

London has been in rapid decline for the past ten years, never mind four decades. Crime and disorder is changing the city for the worse. khan is a useless mayor, and Johnson was too..

 

[Wolfie]

London has been in rapid decline for the past ten years, never mind four decades. Crime and disorder is changing the city for the worse. khan is a useless mayor, and Johnson was too..

Austerity and reduced police numbers since 2010. Despite claims about recruitment total numbers are still lower. Issues in the justice and penal systems too - all mainly due to funding. Do you really think the other big cities are much if any better than London? Even large towns?

 

[Meerkat]

The hands off policy of employers/police is a big problem, there is almost no risk that getting hands on with staff is going to end in a kicking from them or their colleagues, and there is too much fear of getting arrested yourself for bystanders to get involved.
For the total opposite take a look at the videos of Brazilian ‘community intervention/justice’!

 

[jon0844]

I think we need to meet somewhere in the middle because there are far too many videos of people being shot dead in Brazil for shoplifting or the last one I saw was someone killed by a taxi driver over a dispute over paying.

What's shocking is that here we have people watching crimes being committed and doing nothing, while in Brazil people watch people shooting others and also do nothing as if it's normal.

We obviously don't have easy access to guns but if we allowed criminals to run rampant for long enough, would we see people taking extreme action also?

I know earlier in the year we had someone regularly going around trying car doors and popping windows, and it got so bad that eventually residents found him and gave him an almighty beating as they felt the police weren't doing enough.

Amazingly he's since been arrested and jailed but came out and started over....

 

[Meerkat]

I think we need to meet somewhere in the middle because there are far too many videos of people being shot dead in Brazil for shoplifting or the last one I saw was someone killed by a taxi driver over a dispute over paying.

What's shocking is that here we have people watching crimes being committed and doing nothing, while in Brazil people watch people shooting others and also do nothing as if it's normal.

We obviously don't have easy access to guns but if we allowed criminals to run rampant for long enough, would we see people taking extreme action also?

I know earlier in the year we had someone regularly going around trying car doors and popping windows, and it got so bad that eventually residents found him and gave him an almighty beating as they felt the police weren't doing enough.

Amazingly he's since been arrested and jailed but came out and started over....

My worry would be that if you let the situation drift you get an ugly (over)correction. History is full of dictators who were popular at the start as they offered law and order…….

 

[jon0844]

My worry would be that if you let the situation drift you get an ugly (over)correction. History is full of dictators who were popular at the start as they offered law and order…….

The USA certainly seems to be trying to go that way, and Reform would love to promise the same here.

I'd prefer more police officers and a legal system equipped to deal with habitual criminals who are free to do what they want. I'm also pro rehabilitation but accept that won't work for everyone.