Storm Bert Saturday 23rd November

[zwk500]

No trains running tomorrow in Northampton. More rain is forecast on Wednesday.

Nothing until Saturday now, according to the NRE disruption page!

Not surprising. There is a lot of equipment and ballast to check and resources will have been stretched. At least the replacement buses can get through now.

An ad-hoc Empty Northampton-Camden via Rugby has just departed:

Realtime Trains | 5C00 1936 Northampton to Camden C.S.D. | 26/11/2024

Real-time train running information for 5C00 1936 departure from Northampton to Camden C.S.D. on 26/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

And one a bit earlier than that:

Realtime Trains | 5C01 1900 Northampton to Camden C.S.D. | 26/11/2024

Real-time train running information for 5C01 1900 departure from Northampton to Camden C.S.D. on 26/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The section from Hanslope Jn to Northampton has been showing all red signals and now is mostly, but not completely, green, suggesting there's still a little bit more to repair before MK-Northampton trains can run.

edit: Snap with @87015

 

[Merle Haggard]

snip

The section from Hanslope Jn to Northampton has been showing all red signals and now is mostly, but not completely, green, suggesting there's still a little bit more to repair before MK-Northampton trains can run.

edit: Snap with @87015

OTT Maps showed a number of sections South of Northampton with red XXXs on, presumably blocked (but oddly, none in the flooded station). Curiously the track here (over Lady Bridge towards Gordon's Farm) is mostly on an embankment. There was no visible work going on when I went past earlier today but there has been a lot of bank stabilisation work there in the recent past.

 

[Dave S 56F]

Looking upstream from Northampton, Upton Park and the Mill for example, the flooding is nowhere near as bad as it has been. The flood plain designed to accommodate the flood water was nowhere near full! Clearly the issue is nearer Northampton town centre possibly (probably?) caused by the tributaries into the Nene which is really why there needs to be an investigation as to what went wrong. Upstream from Upton Mill, the precautions would appear to have been adequate so again we are looking at poor planning and / or failure to ensure ditches and streams are kept clear especially during building work of which there has been an awful lot in or around Northampton. I know from personal experience how difficult it is to keep ditches and culverts clear let alone for organisations to understand the need to keep them clear especially when there is an attitude of its not our responsibility rather than accepting there is a problem and doing something about it.
There has of course been other areas of local flooding but again, I would suspect failure to keep ditches and culverts clear may be the problem - and possibly local developments.

Could the problem as well here in local towns and Cities around the UK for highways England to play their part, Send stormdrain vacuum tanker trucks out with the suction vac pipes on them to also keep stormdrains grates on major A roads and town roads susceptible to flooding clear of debris like leaves soil rubbish E.T.C. when we get these new extreme weather patterns ,so then at least the excess rain/river water has somewhere to drain away into.

 

[156421]

Could the problem as well here in local towns and Cities around the UK for highways England to play their part

Just on a pedantic note it's now called "National Highways"

 

[edwin_m]

Just on a pedantic note it's now called "National Highways"

Most roads are local council responsibliity anyway. So it probably comes down to their priorities and funding, plus some flooding isn't related to drainage anyway.

 

[Trainguy34]

Sounds like the Thameslink Cores gone down due to heavy flooding, unsure if it's storm-related or not but with the Elizabeth Line down aswell looks to be a pretty bad morning for Londoners...

 

[zwk500]

OTT Maps showed a number of sections South of Northampton with red XXXs on, presumably blocked (but oddly, none in the flooded station). Curiously the track here (over Lady Bridge towards Gordon's Farm) is mostly on an embankment. There was no visible work going on when I went past earlier today but there has been a lot of bank stabilisation work there in the recent past.

Line open this morning with freight passing through, but extremely limited options at Northampton station from the looks of things on signalmaps.co.uk.

 

[JamesT]

The season has moved on and today’s weather is Storm Conall. Though for the areas still mopping up from Bert it probably won’t make much difference what it’s called.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Line open this morning with freight passing through, but extremely limited options at Northampton station from the looks of things on signalmaps.co.uk.

Freights running through but NRES says that it will be RRBs from Northampton until close of work Friday. Also RRBs Rugby - Coventry
There aren't many LNw trains running North of Milton Keynes, NRES gives the reason as 'trains unable to leave the depot'.
And it's raining ...

 

[infobleep]

I've not read all of this thread but today the line between Guildford and Ash is flooded again. I think this has happened before.

Must have been a lot of rain overnight, not that I remember hearing it too loudly. I live in Guildford.

As a result there are no Great Western Railway trains between Reading and Gatwick Airport once more. Train were running earlier. I wonder if any shuttles between Guildford and Gatwick Airport could be run or will staff be out of hours if such a thing was done?

South Western Railway, who run services betweeen Guildford and Farnham are allowing people to book their own taxis.

GWR no such thing but they plan to run buses from 9:30. Will ths allowing of people to take taxis be something that the DfT has given the green light to for SWR to do, compared to say GWR?

Description
Heavy rain has flooded the railway between Guildford and Ash, closing all lines between these stations.

This means that trains running between Guildford and Wokingham / Farnham may be cancelled, delayed by up to 40 minutes or revised.

It is expected that this issue will continue to impact services until 12:00.

Advice for Great Western Railway customers:

Rail replacement transport has been requested to operate between Reading, Guildford, Redhill and Gatwick Airport, but is not likely to commence until after 09:30.

You may use your ticket on the following services at no extra cost:

London Underground via any reasonable route

South Western Railway via any reasonable route

Southern between London Victoria and Gatwick Airport

Advice for South Western Railway customers:

Until further notice, the following service alterations will be necessary:

Guildford to Farnham services will be cancelled in both directions

To assist you with your journey, your ticket will be accepted at no extra cost to yourself on the following services:

Stagecoach South bus route 20 between Aldershot - Ash - Guildford

Due to the level of disruption to your journey, passengers are now able to source their own taxis between Guildford and Farnham and claim them back through the South Western Railway website.

Incident: Ash | National Rail

Disruption between Guildford and Wokingham / Farnham. Find details of all current incidents on National Rail Enquiries.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

 

[thejuggler]

Of course with the perceived increase of high rainfall and flooding we appear to be getting nowadays, there is much talk of improving infrastructure and flood defences to help and alleviate problems to both the public and businesses.

This of course is necessary, but it can and will lead to simply moving the problem somewhere else. Water has that habit of flowing downhill, and if it encounters any barrier to its passage it will simply find itself another route. The whole cycle will therefore begin again.

It can be done, but it usually takes a major incident costing tens if not hundreds of millions for it to happen.

The stretch of River Aire between Keighley and Skipton was once high banked to protect grazing land. In 2000 Keighley suffered a significant flood (400 houses, business disruption etc) and action was taken to reduce the banks so the floodplain could do its job.

Similarly following serious flooding on Boxing Day 2015 in Kirkstall and Leeds city centre major works along the whole Aire route from Malham to Leeds are ongoing. This includes new barriers and sluice, ironically handed over last Friday, just before the heavy rains so it may have been in use already. This diverts water to a new area of opened up floodplain and 1.8m cubic metres of water can be held back and released once river levels fall. Protection works to the railway at Kirkstall Bridge continues.

I remember 2015 well. If you want to try and understand the power of floodwater 2 x 40 foot shipping containers, which were both full of stored items were swept out of the yard of a business and down the river. One beached three miles down river very damaged and empty, thankfully just before a footbridge which it would have taken out. The other was never found.

 

[DarloRich]

Still no passenger trains running to/from Northampton. 2 trains per hour MK > Euston. Bletchley sidings ( empty for the past week or so) are absolutely rammed.

I assume there are still issues getting trains to/from Northampton depot

 

[infobleep]

There is now a shuttle train service between Reading and Ash and taxis between Ash and Guildford, as well as a Rail replacement bus between Reading and Gatwick Airport stopping at all stations.

Still no train service between Guildford and Gatwick Airport though. Current estimate is 15:00 for when a train service can run. [Update: now 18:00]

I assume GWR will need to put staff on a shuttle train to Ash and then all taxi to Guildford, as I imagine staff who were crewing the trains currently stuck at Guildford will be out of hours.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2024 ==

The videos of the flooding between Wanborough and Ash look impressive.

Network Rail Wessex has shared some on X, formerly known as Twitter. I am surprised they included the audio on one as you can hear the radio communications. I think it is commendable that they share stuff like this as it makes people appreciate what is going on more. Whether it stops them moaning is another matter but it might.

x.com

x.com

 

[A0]

Rather naive response. According to EA, this was worse than those and the basic problem remains that the water has to go somewhere. The rapid rise in water levels overstretched the storage areas hence the flooding. The flood defensive improvements have ensured that Northampton town centre has escaped the worst of it but who can say this is as bad as it will ever get?
The railways need to plan for this in terms of their response capability but the planners and Government are ultimately responsible.

I disagree - it's not naive at all, it's a statement of fact that Northampton seems to flood, quite seriously, every 20-30 years. That is hard evidence which rather flies in the face of the argument that it's all down to climate change or development all over the flood plain. Whether it's worth spending huge sums of money for resilience on events which happen 1 in 20 (or less often) years, is open to discusion.

The areas of Northampton which flood are low lying (St James, Far Cotton and the Nene wetlands from Bedford Road out beyond Billing Aquadrome as far as Wellingborough) - some of those areas flood more frequently, but the areas they are on are the run off for the Nene Valley. AIUI the long closed Northampton - Peterbrorough line used to regularly flood between Northampton and Wellingborough - which ran along that valley.

 

[sp503]

I've not read all of this thread but today the line between Guildford and Ash is flooded again. I think this has happened before.

Must have been a lot of rain overnight, not that I remember hearing it too loudly. I live in Guildford.

As a result there are no Great Western Railway trains between Reading and Gatwick Airport once more. Train were running earlier. I wonder if any shuttles between Guildford and Gatwick Airport could be run or will staff be out of hours if such a thing was done?

South Western Railway, who run services betweeen Guildford and Farnham are allowing people to book their own taxis.

GWR no such thing but they plan to run buses from 9:30. Will ths allowing of people to take taxis be something that the DfT has given the green light to for SWR to do, compared to say GWR?

Incident: Ash | National Rail

Disruption between Guildford and Wokingham / Farnham. Find details of all current incidents on National Rail Enquiries.

www.nationalrail.co.uk

I was on one of the first trains from Reading to Guildford stranded before Ash (2O57). The train manager told us at Ash that they have arranged taxis coming to the station for passengers travelling beyond Guildford. For passengers going to Guildford, we were advised to use the local bus (Stagecoach South 20).

About an hour later GWR’s advice changed specifically that GWR tickets were not available on local buses, and hence the later arrangement of taxis from Ash to Guildford. I wonder what happened that prompted this specific announcement and arrangement…

 

[Joey Beauchamp]

It looks like trains are running on the Northampton loop again. Shuttle services between MK and Rugby, presumably due to continued lack of units.

Realtime Trains | 1Z05 1908 Milton Keynes Central to Rugby | 27/11/2024

Real-time train running information for 1Z05 1908 departure from Milton Keynes Central to Rugby on 27/11/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Denzo]

Local trains on the southernmost section of the WCML are still completely goosed. We are getting 1 slow train an hour at Leighton Buzzard which is already completely full by the time it gets here. WFH all week for me.

 

[DarloRich]

Local trains on the southernmost section of the WCML are still completely goosed. We are getting 1 slow train an hour at Leighton Buzzard which is already completely full by the time it gets here. WFH all week for me.

really? I haven't noticed that at Bletchley - the service is less than ideal but not rammed

 

[Merle Haggard]

Although Northampton station has re-opened not many trains have run and those that have seem to have been part cancelled - nothing seems to have left New Street yet. Even the planned service seems to be New St to Milton Keynes only for some reason. RTT shows a good RRB service (to Milton Keynes & Rubgy), though.
Yesterday lunchtime there were three coaches parked outside Wellingborough station, one of which actually had 'Rail Replcement' on the display. No reference on the station, though, nor on NRES. Was any prospective Northampton passenger at Euston advised to travel via St Pancras, I wonder; and also, what the reception at the latter station's barrier would be when presented with an L.M. only ticket.

 

[SLC001]

An hourly train service through Northampton starts today, Thursday. There is still damage to rolling stock which requires repairing. I guess drying out....

 

[Bletchleyite]

Although Northampton station has re-opened not many trains have run and those that have seem to have been part cancelled - nothing seems to have left New Street yet. Even the planned service seems to be New St to Milton Keynes only for some reason. RTT shows a good RRB service (to Milton Keynes & Rubgy), though.
Yesterday lunchtime there were three coaches parked outside Wellingborough station, one of which actually had 'Rail Replcement' on the display. No reference on the station, though, nor on NRES. Was any prospective Northampton passenger at Euston advised to travel via St Pancras, I wonder; and also, what the reception at the latter station's barrier would be when presented with an L.M. only ticket.

EMR does have acceptance, yes (though "aim to have" probably needs updated). Full details here:

Severe Disruption To Services (28/11)

www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk

Ticket Acceptance​

We will aim to have the following ticket acceptance in place (in either direction) until the end of service today (unless specified otherwise) with:

• Avanti West Coast between Birmingham - London Euston
• Chiltern Railways between Birmingham Moor Street/Snow Hill and London Marylebone.
• CrossCountry between Birmingham and Leicester/Derby.
• East Midlands Railway between Wellingborough and London St Pancras, & Bletchley and Euston
• London Overground (Lioness line) between Watford Junction and London Euston
• London Underground via any reasonable route, including:
  • Bakerloo line between Harrow and Wealdstone and Oxford Circus
  • Metropolitan line between Watford (Met) and Euston Square
  • Victoria line between Oxford Circus and Euston
• National Express West Midlands buses between Coventry and Birmingham on any reasonable bus route.
• Southern services to/from Watford Junction.
• Thameslink between Bedford and London St Pancras
• West Midlands Railway between Rugeley Trent Valley/Lichfield Trent Valley and Birmingham New Street, and Nuneaton - Coventry - Leamington Spa.

Other operators services may be busier than normal. Please travel as close as possible to the original time on your ticket.

 

[setdown]

I'm looking forwards to playing the dance of 'That's an off-peak LNR ticket, this is a peak time train' with the Avanti Euston gateline this evening...

 

[Merle Haggard]

EMR does have acceptance, yes (though "aim to have" probably needs updated). Full details here:

Severe Disruption To Services (28/11)

www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk

Thanks.
Interesting that they tell passengers that they can travel to Wellingborough but not that there will then be an R.R.B. waiting there! But there's a good bus service (4 p.h.) from up the town anyway.

Although there's apparently all these problems with running trains through Northampton at the moment Network Rail did the planned Old Line overnight block and last night's Avanti trains were diverted via Northampton without problems (apart from the up Edinburgh which is planned to call at Northampton anyway - took root for a while in the DIRFT area).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thanks.
Interesting that they tell passengers that they can travel to Wellingborough but not that there will then be an R.R.B. waiting there! But there's a good bus service (4 p.h.) from up the town anyway.

There isn't an RRB to Wellingborough, it's just Rugby-Northampton-Wolverton-MKC. A very large proportion of passengers reach the station by car and can just drive to a different station instead (and would generally choose that over a bus). For instance my backup would be Aylesbury Vale Parkway (though one can reach Aylesbury by normal bus for two quid).

 

[Joey Beauchamp]

Although there's apparently all these problems with running trains through Northampton at the moment Network Rail did the planned Old Line overnight block and last night's Avanti trains were diverted via Northampton without problems (apart from the up Edinburgh which is planned to call at Northampton anyway - took root for a while in the DIRFT area).

I don't think there's a problem running trains through Northampton anymore. Plenty of freight was going through yesterday afternoon. The problem is now a severe shortage of units.

I'm reasonably hopeful I might be able to catch my planned train (09.22) from Long Buckby tomorrow morning. If it starts short at MK that won't affect me, apart from making it less crowded!

 

[Merle Haggard]

There isn't an RRB to Wellingborough, it's just Rugby-Northampton-Wolverton-MKC. A very large proportion of passengers reach the station by car and can just drive to a different station instead (and would generally choose that over a bus). For instance my backup would be Aylesbury Vale Parkway (though one can reach Aylesbury by normal bus for two quid).

But catching the 12.37 to Corby from Wellingborough there were 3 coaches parked outside Wellingborough station, one of which said 'Rail Replacement' on it. Driving on the A45 from Northampton to Wellingborough I also passed one travelling in the opposite direction with 'Rail Replacement and the rail symbol'
Only the usual number of passengers alighted from the 12.37 and no - one said our announced 'Passengers for Northampton the RRB is waiting outside'. The coach drivers were on their mobile phones with the doors closed - no attempt to look out for intending passmneghsr. RRB situation normal...
One of the coaches ha=d Walsall legal lettering, so they cast a wide net to get them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't think there's a problem running trains through Northampton anymore. Plenty of freight was going through yesterday afternoon. The problem is now a severe shortage of units.

With the depot on high ground (well above the running lines) I doubt any of the units in it were water damaged (though the small number in the station may have been). Is access still unavailable there I guess?

 

[Merle Haggard]

I don't think there's a problem running trains through Northampton anymore. Plenty of freight was going through yesterday afternoon. The problem is now a severe shortage of units.

I'm reasonably hopeful I might be able to catch my planned train (09.22) from Long Buckby tomorrow morning. If it starts short at MK that won't affect me, apart from making it less crowded!

But up-thread it was said that the units at Kings Heath and stabled around the station in the floods were all checked and o.k....

 

[Bletchleyite]

But catching the 12.37 to Corby from Wellingborough there were 3 coaches parked outside Wellingborough station, one of which said 'Rail Replacement' on it. Driving on the A45 from Northampton to Wellingborough I also passed one travelling in the opposite direction with 'Rail Replacement and the rail symbol'
Only the usual number of passengers alighted from the 12.37 and no - one said our announced 'Passengers for Northampton the RRB is waiting outside'. The coach drivers were on their mobile phones with the doors closed - no attempt to look out for intending passmneghsr. RRB situation normal...
One of the coaches ha=d Walsall legal lettering, so they cast a wide net to get them.

Interesting. Very odd to put RRBs on without advertising them at all!

 

[A0]

EMR does have acceptance, yes (though "aim to have" probably needs updated). Full details here:

Severe Disruption To Services (28/11)

www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk

From Twitter / X - clearly states EMR acceptance available from Wellingborough - St Pancras. I think they're also trying to say, though clumsily worded it, you can travel Wellingborough - Bedford - Bletchley - Euston as well (though why anyone would choose to do that given St P and Euston are 5 minutes apart is a moot point).