Was given an MG11. Worried about history

[jamie123400]

Hi everyone,
I've been reading through the threads and just want to comment on how this is such an amazing and supportive community and Im glad a place like this exists.
I was given a MG11 by an officer this week as my ticket was invalid. I got on the train that only covered travelling to a closer station that I intended to travel to later in the day when I got back from London. But didn't pay the rest of the journey to London that was till I got on the train. When the inspector told me my ticket was invalid I complied and gave ID. They told me I am going to receive a letter after I signed the tablet and received a slip. Despite any excuse I may have, I am willing to just pay and settle this.
However, over a year ago I was stopped, I merely gave my details after paying for a cheaper fare for super off peak rather than off peak. I was in hysterics, and didn't spell all of of my details and some of the names and my own are unique, the train inspector at the time seemed sincere. I didn't sign anything and was told I would receive a letter. I never received one and have not been contacted on the phone or email regarding that matter, unless I gave the address I used to reside in which Im pretty sure I didn't (having trouble recalling events from that day). Since then I haven't evaded train fare and paid the full amount for my tickets, only this week I made a mistake.
I want to clarify I suffer from severe ADHD, and struggle with keeping track of things and completely forgot about that previous warning especially since I had not received correspondence.
I understand there is a procedure I must take if I was not aware about any prior prosecution on penalties by the court in order to reset the case if it went further than I was aware of.
I am worried that when I receive this letter soon, my history about that past penalty or any other times in the years I've used trains and short fared occasionally when I was younger may arise. I just want to settle a payment or payments and avoid going to court, especially after reading policies I have most definitely learnt my lesson.
Just looking for some advice on how to go about it, I've been ridiculously anxious this week and am trying to figure out what to expect and the outcome. Doing my best not to overthink the situation and just wait. (This is with LNW)
Thank you.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Oct 2024 ==

Im also worried as in this case, https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/fare-evasion-second-time.139471/ they were sent to court.

 

[30907]

First, there is very little you can do until the letter arrives, except to try and recall times when you have short-fared using tickets bought online. It is very easy for train companies to access this information, and they will do so.

When the letter arrives, please come back here (and upload a copy with your personal info obscured) and someone (probably several!) will help. It will probably threaten prosecution but pretty much every train company will offer an out-of-court settlement if you cooperate.

Second, regarding the Statutory Declaration procedure. If by any chance you had been convicted of an offence over a year ago, that would have happened several months ago and the court would have been in touch before now. I don't think you need worry over that, but you are right to ask - cover all bases!

Third, the case that you linked was settled out of court - read the end of the thread

 

[jamie123400]

First, there is very little you can do until the letter arrives, except to try and recall times when you have short-fared using tickets bought online. It is very easy for train companies to access this information, and they will do so.

When the letter arrives, please come back here (and upload a copy with your personal info obscured) and someone (probably several!) will help. It will probably threaten prosecution but pretty much every train company will offer an out-of-court settlement if you cooperate.

Second, regarding the Statutory Declaration procedure. If by any chance you had been convicted of an offence over a year ago, that would have happened several months ago and the court would have been in touch before now. I don't think you need worry over that, but you are right to ask - cover all bases!

Third, the case that you linked was settled out of court - read the end of the thread

Thank you so much for your response. I will be sure to upload the letter when I receive it.

 

[jamie123400]

Hi everyone I received an email.


We have recently been handed a file relating to an incident on (date) when approached by staff carrying out their revenue duties, you were asked to show your valid ticket you offered a ticket that was not valid for the journey you had completed, possibly committing short journey fraud.​

​

You were interviewed under caution for possibly committing short journey fraud.​

​

Further investigations into this matter have been carried out, including a review of the ticket records. It would appear, at this stage, that this may be a case of fraud. West Midlands Trains take travel fraud extremely seriously and is committed to prosecuting all cases of fare evasion to the full extent of the law. Travelling on the railway with the intent to avoid paying the full fare is an offence under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889. Such an offence carries a maximum fine of £1,000 and/or three months’ imprisonment and, in either case, a criminal record. It must also be considered whether this matter amounts to a much more serious offence under the Fraud Act 2006.​

​

At this stage we would be grateful if you would provide any evidence to support the claim that none of the above legislation has been contravened to prevent further action being contemplated.​

What do I say? I just want pay any fees for a mistake and not have any back and fourths. I was in a rush to travel and had unclear travel plans. Bought my ticket late. I just want to keep it short and precise as I do not know if it is worth trying to bring in evidence.

 

[Titfield]

Firstly have you gone back through your online account and identified how many occasions you have shortfared? This will at least provide some context for your reply. If you have shortfared on numerous occasions this needs to be addressed.

Secondly draft a reply based on the excellent advice @Hadders has given many times on this forum. (You can search using the tool in the top right hand corner of this page.

Then post your draft reply on here for comment by the forum members.

 

[jamie123400]

On the (date), I had not finalized my travel plans and often travel to Milton Keynes for personal reasons, including visiting friends or casual responsibilities. On this occasion, I made a last-minute decision to extend my journey to attend a lecture. As I did not have a valid ticket for travel I was stopped by the rail enforcement officer. I deeply apologise for this mistake. I understand the seriousness of this issue and will not be repeating this again. I want to emphasize that it was not my intention to evade payment. My ADHD can sometimes contribute to difficulties with organization, and I am working hard on managing this more effectively to prevent such issues occurring ever again. I would be grateful to settle this matter out of court and I am willing to cover any outstanding fare and administrative costs for dealing with this matter.



I now know that if I wish to extend my journey I must go through the correct avenues and have a valid ticket before boarding the train.

Again I deeply apologise for this error and for any inconvenience this has caused.

What do you think?

 

[WesternLancer]

On the (date), I had not finalized my travel plans and often travel to Milton Keynes for personal reasons, including visiting friends or casual responsibilities. On this occasion, I made a last-minute decision to extend my journey to attend a lecture. As I did not have a valid ticket for travel I was stopped by the rail enforcement officer. I deeply apologise for this mistake. I understand the seriousness of this issue and will not be repeating this again. I want to emphasize that it was not my intention to evade payment. My ADHD can sometimes contribute to difficulties with organization, and I am working hard on managing this more effectively to prevent such issues occurring ever again. I would be grateful to settle this matter out of court and I am willing to cover any outstanding fare and administrative costs for dealing with this matter.



I now know that if I wish to extend my journey I must go through the correct avenues and have a valid ticket before boarding the train.

Again I deeply apologise for this error and for any inconvenience this has caused.

What do you think?

The bit asking to settle out of court needs to be your final sentence. The last hing the reader reads.

 

[AlterEgo]

On the (date), I had not finalized my travel plans and often travel to Milton Keynes for personal reasons, including visiting friends or casual responsibilities. On this occasion, I made a last-minute decision to extend my journey to attend a lecture. As I did not have a valid ticket for travel I was stopped by the rail enforcement officer. I deeply apologise for this mistake. I understand the seriousness of this issue and will not be repeating this again. I want to emphasize that it was not my intention to evade payment. My ADHD can sometimes contribute to difficulties with organization, and I am working hard on managing this more effectively to prevent such issues occurring ever again. I would be grateful to settle this matter out of court and I am willing to cover any outstanding fare and administrative costs for dealing with this matter.



I now know that if I wish to extend my journey I must go through the correct avenues and have a valid ticket before boarding the train.

Again I deeply apologise for this error and for any inconvenience this has caused.

What do you think?

What was the journey you made, between which two stations, and what was the ticket you held when you boarded?

What was the second ticket you bought? Exactly when did you buy it?

I don't think it's quite clear in the thread exactly what the facts are.

 

[jamie123400]

What was the journey you made, between which two stations, and what was the ticket you held when you boarded?

What was the second ticket you bought? Exactly when did you buy it?

I don't think it's quite clear in the thread exactly what the facts are.

Between Northampton and Bletchley, to go to London Euston
Second ticket was bought on the train

 

[John R]

So you decided at the last minute whilst on the train to continue all the way from Bletchley to London to attend a lecture?

Don’t insult their intelligence by putting that in your letter. They will undoubtedly conclude that you are lying, and may be much less likely to offer you a settlement if they believe you are not being sincere.

 

[Hadders]

On the (date), I had not finalized my travel plans and often travel to Milton Keynes for personal reasons, including visiting friends or casual responsibilities. On this occasion, I made a last-minute decision to extend my journey to attend a lecture.

Between Northampton and Bletchley, to go to London Euston
Second ticket was bought on the train

Frankly I think this excuse is scarcely believable. Did you really intend to travel to see a friend in Milton Keynes and then make a last minute decision while on the train to carry on to Euston to attend a lecture instead?

I'd cut it out of the reply.

 

[30907]

I now know that if I wish to extend my journey I must go through the correct avenues and have a valid ticket before boarding the train.

1. Just for clarification, you may buy the ticket on the train provided (1) the train stops at the station you have a ticket for and (2) you buy it before the train reaches that station.

2. However, the mail you have quoted says you weren't able to show the ticket for Bletchley-Euston. Can you clarify?

 

[jamie123400]

1. Just for clarification, you may buy the ticket on the train provided (1) the train stops at the station you have a ticket for and (2) you buy it before the train reaches that station.

2. However, the mail you have quoted says you weren't able to show the ticket for Bletchley-Euston. Can you clarify?

I bought it after the stop

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Nov 2024 ==

No I did have plans to go to Bletchley on that day, that's the whole reason why I bought the ticket too

 

[AlterEgo]

I bought it after the stop

When?

This is important. You can’t send them an explanation which is untrue or insult their or our intelligence with the explanation you gave in your draft.

 

[jamie123400]

When?

This is important. You can’t send them an explanation which is untrue or insult their or our intelligence with the explanation you gave in your draft.

After Leighton then the ticket inspector came

 

[AlterEgo]

After Leighton then the ticket inspector came

So basically you bought the ticket because you were about to be inspected. Just admit to the short faring and don’t give them any of the nonsense about suddenly needing to attend a lecture. Nobody is going to believe that; they weren’t born yesterday.

 

[jamie123400]

So basically you bought the ticket because you were about to be inspected. Just admit to the short faring and don’t give them any of the nonsense about suddenly needing to attend a lecture. Nobody is going to believe that; they weren’t born yesterday.

How should I word it?

 

[30907]

After Leighton then the ticket inspector came

Thanks, which means you didn't have a valid ticket from Bletchley onwards, and makes your original story less convincing.

How should I word it?

Have a look at posts by @Hadders for ideas.

 

[jamie123400]

Help! They've just given me an email saying I owe 3K in train fees!
What do I do?

 

[WesternLancer]

Help! They've just given me an email saying I owe 3K in train fees!
What do I do?

You should :

a) post a copy of that e-mail here with your personal details and ref numbers obscured so people can see exactly what is being said
b) consider politely asking them to break down how they arrived at that sum so that you can check if it is correct from your own records
c) compare with your own travel and ticket buying records to see if it might be accurate (basing each journey on the Anytime Single price for a ticket) - as per advice in post #5
d) be honest with yourself and us about how much travel you have undertaken - and they can go back through on line records for several years on their side of this - without the correct ticket and see if it might reflect the sum they are asking for
e) consider talking to your family about this to see if they can help you pay the sum now being asked for

 

[jamie123400]

I have evidence of me at the many of the locations the have accused me of short fare evasion for. Text messages, emails and photo time stamps

 

[Pushpit]

I have evidence of me at the many of the locations the have accused me of short fare evasion for. Text messages, emails and photo time stamps

Are you saying you did not short fare on those dates (and can prove it)? Or that you did travel as LNW have suggested? Ultimately LNW should not require wrongful repayments, so there probably isn't any alternative but to go through the list they have presumably provided, line by line, and work out whether you definitely did not short fare, those times when you did short fare and those where you just don't know.

 

[jamie123400]

Are they looking if I travelled all the way to London?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2024 ==

Are you saying you did not short fare on those dates (and can prove it)? Or that you did travel as LNW have suggested? Ultimately LNW should not require wrongful repayments, so there probably isn't any alternative but to go through the list they have presumably provided, line by line, and work out whether you definitely did not short fare, those times when you did short fare and those where you just don't know.

A few, where I travelled to Milton Keynes but bought it to the stop before. They are wanting me to pay a full price about £68-75 each

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2024 ==

Because Wolverton doesn't have ticket barriers

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2024 ==

Additionally, there's a guys who friendly at the ticket barriers in MK, and he lets me through without scanning ALOT

 

[WesternLancer]

Since you are not posting a copy of what they have said to you in full its hard to assess their position and give you helpful advice.

What is clear is they believe you have evaded a lot of fares or a few high cost fares. If you can prove you haven’t then send them that proof.

If they don’t believe you they can always prosecute you.

 

[jamie123400]

Since you are not posting a copy of what they have said to you in full its hard to assess their position and give you helpful advice.

What is clear is they believe you have evaded a lot of fares or a few high cost fares. If you can prove you haven’t then send them that proof.

If they don’t believe you they can always prosecute you.

Im sorry, Im just going through everything then will post

 

[WesternLancer]

Im sorry, Im just going through everything then will post

Ok. That will help I think.

 

[jamie123400]

Thank you for your response and evidence.



Upon investigating your case we can see there was potentially short fare evasion being committed.



From reviewing your account there were over 280 transactions we have gone through and only deem 56 transactions as short fare evasion.



We have reviewed all scan data which none of the 72 were scanned whilst entering or leaving the stations.



Please in your response choose which option you wish to take.



Option A – To make full payment.

Option B – Provide evidence in the next 5 days to support your claims.

Option C – Have case handed over to the Prosecutions Team and incur further fees.



Please see attached transaction table we have investigated. For us to go forward with this case, we would suggest providing evidence to back your transactions or make payment.

Date	From	To	Refund request date	Ticket price Amount
18/05/2022 12:42	Bletchley	Milton Keynes Central		65.8
08/08/2022 20:32	Milton Keynes Central	Northampton		17.7
09/08/2022 12:41	Northampton	Milton Keynes Central		17.7
19/08/2022 08:24	Northampton	Milton Keynes Central		17.7
04/09/2022 08:45	Northampton	Milton Keynes Central		17.7
05/09/2022 12:05	Northampton	Wolverton		65.8
07/09/2022 12:05	Northampton	Wolverton		65.8
08/09/2022 12:05	Northampton	Wolverton		65.8
09/09/2022 12:05	Northampton	Wolverton		65.8
12/09/2022 12:05	Northampton	Wolverton		65.8
13/09/2022 12:05	Northampton	Wolverton		65.8
14/09/2022 10:25	Northampton	Wolverton		65.8
15/09/2022 10:25	Northampton	Wolverton		65.8
21/09/2022 12:25	Northampton	Bletchley		65.8
22/09/2022 20:06	Northampton	Wolverton		65.8
15/10/2022 20:00	Northampton	Bletchley		65.8
20/10/2022 12:41	Northampton	Milton Keynes Central		17.7
23/10/2022 12:56	Wolverton	Northampton		65.8
29/10/2022 16:05	Northampton	Bletchley		65.8
21/11/2022 07:38	Northampton	Bletchley		65.8
11/02/2023 13:30	Wolverton	Milton Keynes Central		68.3
13/02/2023 20:28	Wolverton	Milton Keynes Central		68.3
22/02/2023 20:28	Wolverton	Milton Keynes Central		68.3
23/02/2023 12:38	Milton Keynes Central	Wolverton		68.3
02/03/2023 20:02	Bletchley	Milton Keynes Central		68.3
04/03/2023 14:48	Northampton	Wolverton		68.3
07/03/2023 12:48	Northampton	Wolverton		68.3
15/03/2023 18:30	Wolverton	Milton Keynes Central		68.3
26/03/2023 11:29	Milton Keynes Central	Northampton		17.7
03/07/2023 17:42	Wolverton	Northampton		68.3
08/07/2023 15:00	Wolverton	Milton Keynes Central		68.3
22/07/2023 17:25	Wolverton	Milton Keynes Central		68.3
05/08/2023 11:18	Northampton	Milton Keynes Central		17.7
06/08/2023 16:38	Milton Keynes Central	Wolverton		68.3
15/10/2023 10:10	Northampton	Wolverton		68.3
21/10/2023 12:00	Wolverton	Milton Keynes Central		68.3
26/10/2023 16:00	Wolverton	Milton Keynes Central		68.3
26/10/2023 20:08	Milton Keynes Central	Northampton		17.7
02/12/2023 12:18	Northampton	Wolverton		68.3
02/12/2023 12:18	Northampton	Bletchley		68.3
23/12/2023 18:00	Milton Keynes Central	Bletchley		68.3
24/12/2023 14:15	Northampton	Milton Keynes Central		68.3
29/12/2023 19:16	Northampton	Wolverton		68.3
18/01/2024 08:18	Northampton	Wolverton		75.8
02/02/2024 19:48	Northampton	Bletchley		75.8
23/03/2024 13:18	Northampton	Bletchley		75.8
23/03/2024 19:08	Milton Keynes Central	Northampton		17.7
11/05/2024 18:08	Milton Keynes Central	Northampton		17.7
09/07/2024 11:18	Northampton	Milton Keynes Central		75.8
09/07/2024 22:02	Bletchley	Milton Keynes Central		75.8
13/07/2024 19:46	Northampton	Bletchley		75.8
20/07/2024 13:48	Northampton	Bletchley		75.8
03/10/2024 10:18	Northampton	Wolverton		75.8
05/10/2024 19:18	Northampton	Milton Keynes Central		17.7
12/10/2024 11:18	Northampton	Bletchley		75.8
23/10/2024 07:18	Northampton	Bletchley		75.8
			Admin Fee	350
			Total amount	3655.7

Total amount due to be paid is £3655.70 this includes admin fees. This is due to be paid or evidence supplied by 3rd December 2024

 

[soil]

Are they looking if I travelled all the way to London?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2024 ==


A few, where I travelled to Milton Keynes but bought it to the stop before. They are wanting me to pay a full price about £68-75 each

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2024 ==

Because Wolverton doesn't have ticket barriers

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2024 ==

Additionally, there's a guys who friendly at the ticket barriers in MK, and he lets me through without scanning ALOT

Not sure what you're claiming here.

Train goes:

Northampton - Wolverton - Milton Keynes - Bletchley - Leighton (- Watford Junction) - London. All different fares.

How many different ticket pairs do you have? E.g., Northampton - MK, Northampton - Wolverton, etc. Do you mean you bought a ticket Northampton - Wolverton and got off at MK?

 

[Elecman]

Are they looking if I travelled all the way to London?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2024 ==


A few, where I travelled to Milton Keynes but bought it to the stop before. They are wanting me to pay a full price about £68-75 each

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2024 ==

Because Wolverton doesn't have ticket barriers

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2024 ==

Additionally, there's a guys who friendly at the ticket barriers in MK, and he lets me through without scanning ALOT

The6bwill have looked at your complete online ticket purchases and they will have discovered some irregularities and are thus basing thier estimates on the full single ticket price for every suspicious joutprney so a return = 2 Singles and no allowance for the value of any tickets that you did purchase for those journeys plus a £150 or so Administration fee for thier investigation costs

 

[jamie123400]

The6bwill have looked at your complete online ticket purchases and they will have discovered some irregularities and are thus basing thier estimates on the full single ticket price for every suspicious joutprney so a return = 2 Singles and no allowance for the value of any tickets that you did purchase for those journeys plus a £150 or so Administration fee for thier investigation costs

So, there's nothing I can do?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2024 ==

I'm trying not to panic. I don't have this money, Im a student and don't know what to do or if I should even try and prove anything

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2024 ==

Not sure what you're claiming here.

Train goes:

Northampton - Wolverton - Milton Keynes - Bletchley - Leighton (- Watford Junction) - London. All different fares.

How many different ticket pairs do you have? E.g., Northampton - MK, Northampton - Wolverton, etc. Do you mean you bought a ticket Northampton - Wolverton and got off at MK?

There are no barriers in wolverton
There are a few purchases there where I did get off just didn't scan the ticket

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2024 ==

And a very large wad of them where I worked in MK station so my ticket didn't get scanned but I bought the ticket to Wolverton instead

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Nov 2024 ==

I feel like such an idiot. I was so stupid. SO stupid.
I have no idea what to do or what's going to happen to me