London to Harrogate seating - train splitting... what am I missing

[Lee_Again]

Going to Harrogate, from Stevenage, on December 8th 1D07 09.05 King's Cross to Harrogate.

LNER booking engine shows the train as coaches MKHGF / EDCBA >>>> direction of travel (if only going to Leeds)
AND
EDCBA >>>> direction of travel (if going to Harrogate)

This suggests a split in Leeds - which I get.

We have seats in coach D.... I thought the train reversed at Leeds. But surely it's the rear 5 coaches (MKHGF) continuing to Harrogate, not the front 5. RTT shows the usual platform 6, but that puts coach A at the buffers.

What am I missing?
Hopefully images below to help.

 

[800001]

Going to Harrogate, from Stevenage, on December 8th 1D07 09.05 King's Cross to Harrogate.

LNER booking engine shows the train as coaches MKHGF / EDCBA >>>> direction of travel (if only going to Leeds)
AND
EDCBA >>>> direction of travel (if going to Harrogate)

This suggests a split in Leeds - which I get.

We have seats in coach D.... I thought the train reversed at Leeds. But surely it's the rear 5 coaches (MKHGF) continuing to Harrogate, not the front 5. RTT shows the usual platform 6, but that puts coach A at the buffers.

What am I missing?
Hopefully images below to help.

View attachment 169961

View attachment 169962

It will run as a 10 car set I believe with 5 locked out of use.

 

[Lee_Again]

It will run as a 10 car set I believe with 5 locked out of use.

OK... that could explain it. Thank you.
Anybody want to contradict that?

 

[rower40]

And possibly via Hambleton to avoid a possession at South Kirkby Junction, thereby removing the need to reverse at Leeds.

 

[norbitonflyer]

And possibly via Hambleton to avoid a possession at South Kirkby Junction, thereby removing the need to reverse at Leeds.

Not according to RTT - routed via South Kirby Junction and calling at Wakefield Westgate - reversing at Leeds

Realtime Trains | 1D07 0905 London Kings Cross to Harrogate | 08/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 1D07 0905 departure from London Kings Cross to Harrogate on 08/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Twingo37175]

Not according to RTT - routed via South Kirby Junction and calling at Wakefield Westgate - reversing at Leeds

Realtime Trains | 1D07 0905 London Kings Cross to Harrogate | 08/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 1D07 0905 departure from London Kings Cross to Harrogate on 08/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

I believe this weekend is the third and last weekend of diversions that way.
I believe not all the train is platformed at Harrogate (rear 7 only?) which may explain why for 10 cars it is just the rear set in use.

 

[Deepgreen]

I believe this weekend is the third and last weekend of diversions that way.
I believe not all the train is platformed at Harrogate (rear 7 only?) which may explain why for 10 cars it is just the rear set in use.

No SDO?

 

[robbeech]

No SDO?

Im not sure what the reasoning is but essentially when they run a 9 car you can only board first class by going through the standard/first carriage, a bit of a trek if your seat is in M.
All of the passenger door at that end of the train ARE on the platform but aren’t released.

 

[tgregson]

Having use these regularly I think I can shed some light on it, if the Kings cross to Harrogate train is made of a 10 car (2x5) they lock the front coaches between Leeds and Harrogate out of use (due to the reverse in Leeds theses are the rear coaches south of Leeds) its due to platform length at Harrogate they normally use platform 3 which is long enough for the front 6 car and the front door of car 7 to open. But if they have to use platform 1 then only the rear 5 cars can open which would stop people getting off the front cars, the train also has to be that far forwards so it clears the signals at the south end of the platform. I think (but not had confirmed) that there's an issue with a large gap between platform and train at the north end of the station at harrogate due to the curve on the platform as all the coaches open are on the straight section of the platform.

Does cause problems if they ever put a 9 car in to platform 1 and you book a bike space as you can't get your bike on to car 7, I once had some worried looking LNER staff working out how to get my bike on until someone decided the best thing to do was to use the space in car B that has the bike hooks but says don't put your bike here.

On one of the very early azuma services from Harrogate in 2019 they had put all the people with reserved seat from Harrogate in the rear 5 coaches then opened the front 5 which result in lots of people complaining to the guard and then moving at Leeds to "their seat" despite plenty of unbooked seats I hope they've sorted that issue in the booking system but post covid its rare to get a 10 car on the Harrogate-Kings cross there normally 9s or 5s.

 

[SpeedyWombat88]

10 cars seem to be fairly regular on Sundays but I doubt they’re ever busy enough to cause more than a minor issue with it being when it is.

but post covid its rare to get a 10 car on the Harrogate-Kings cross there normally 9s or 5s.

 

[tgregson]

10 cars seem to be fairly regular on Sundays but I doubt they’re ever busy enough to cause more than a minor issue with it being when it is.

Ah my bad, Sunday is the one day of the week I'm not normally at Harrogate station, though they would be similar train lengths as Monday-Saturday. I always find it strange that a whole new timetable is used on Sunday with different clock face times used, rather than just modifying the one that's used the rest of the week.

 

[SpeedyWombat88]

Ah my bad, Sunday is the one day of the week I'm not normally at Harrogate station, though they would be similar train lengths as Monday-Saturday. I always find it strange that a whole new timetable is used on Sunday with different clock face times used, rather than just modifying the one that's used the rest of the week.

I really don’t understand that either, seems like a bit of an odd decision.

 

[david1212]

It will run as a 10 car set I believe with 5 locked out of use.

Aside from platform length limitations presumably this means that at least 1 crew member fewer required.