Caught by staff at station for wrong ticket, is settlement probable?

[lolcat10]

Is it possible?

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Algebra is not my strong point so can you tell us where A,B and Z are please so we can offer you the best advice.

I’m guessing that Wembley Stadium and Marylebone are two of the stations involved.

 

[lolcat10]

Not those, but it was a one off

 

[Gloster]

Incidentally, it is not Miranda Rights: that is an American concept. You were probably given the UK equivalent of being cautioned, something that in the police sense unfortunately has two different meanings.

 

[lolcat10]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2024 ==

You were probably given the UK equivalent of being cautioned, something that in the police sense unfortunately has two different meanings.

Thanks for the information.

 

[AlterEgo]

. In my situation, will it negatively affect me that I responded with 'No comment' to the "why did you do it" questions?

No. It’s wise to keep quiet if being interviewed under caution and without legal representation.

You can deal with the letter when it comes safe in the knowledge you said nothing which would incriminate you further.

 

[John R]

I recently traveled from Station A to Station Z and, as usual, bought a ticket via the Chiltern app for that route at Station Z (Station A has an unmanned desk and open barrier so I often buy either in the train or at Z).

Just to warn you that boarding a train without a valid ticket is an offence, so even if you buy a ticket for your full journey, you are risking being caught for a second time if you continue to do so.

And it’s a reasonable assumption that even if you are offered a settlement this time, a second offence is likely to be treated more harshly.

 

[Hadders]

What's likely to happen next is that Chiltern Railways will send you a letter saying thatthey have received a report and are considering prosecuting, but asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed. I suggest writing a short, concide reply mentioning the following:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Although we can't guarantee it, Chiltern are normally prepared to offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with their investigation and who haven't come to their attention before. Expect to have to pay the cost of the fare avoided at the full Anytime rate, with no credit given for the invalid ticket you did purchase. In addition you will need to pay an admin fee, typically £150. You will need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered.

When it arrives, post a copy of Chiltern's letter in this thread (but do redact any personal details before doing so) along with your draft reply and forum mmebers will proof read it for you.

 

[lolcat10]

Thank you all for helping.

 

[Elecman]

So you are admitting to Chiltern Trains that you have got onto trains on a train on previous occasions without a ticket?. That’s a criminal offence as you are required to hav3 a ticket BEFORE you board the train. You may wish to consider the implications of that admission, and revise you4 letter accordingly

 

[lolcat10]

I tried to follow the advice in one of the other threads.

 

[WesternLancer]

So you are admitting to Chiltern Trains that you have got onto trains on a train on previous occasions without a ticket?. That’s a criminal offence as you are required to hav3 a ticket BEFORE you board the train. You may wish to consider the implications of that admission, and revise you4 letter accordingly

Indeed.

The policy is buy before you board. OP should definitely not admit to have failed to do this on previous occasions and thus thought it was ok to do that simply because no one has noticed it before.

My advice is get rid of that from the draft.

 

[Hadders]

I'd cut the bits out about running late and the barriers being open and about making phone calls etc. They're just excuses and aren't relevent.

Chiltern believe that your purchase history shows other similar irregulaties and you shoud address this in your letter. I suggest you carry out you own check on your Trainline account and tell them how many times you've not paid the correct fare. While you're not required to incriminate yourself you do need to co-operate if you want to keep the matter out of court.

 

[WesternLancer]

So I tried to follow the advice in this thread: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/short-faring-on-chiltern-railways.272467/#post-6901449

That said, I don't know what the "other occasions" the original letter refers to, as there are no other instances of this. It's probably not the ones I mention where I got the ticket after boarding since they won't have data to indicate that, but I figured it's better to be honest about some potentially unrelated instances than to disagree with their letter.

cc: @Hadders curious if you had any thoughts too. Many thanks.

Ref ‘other occasions’ - you might need to politely ask them to detail other occasions ‘so you can check your own records’ or some such wording. You could say you don’t believe you have made other ticketing errors but it’s not wise to say that if you are unsure or if you know that to be a lie.

 

[lolcat10]

Chiltern believe that your purchase history shows other similar irregulaties and you shoud address this in your letter. I suggest you carry out you own check on your Trainline account and tell them how many times you've not paid the correct fare. While you're not required to incriminate yourself you do need to co-operate if you want to keep the matter out of court.

This is the only one of that type.

 

[Hadders]

I think you need to address Chiltern's view that 'you may have avoided the correct rail fare on other occasions'.

If these other journeys were genuine then you should tell them that. My view is it would help if you can show some evidence to back-up these journeys as being genuine.

 

[lolcat10]

Thank you for the advice, the others are genuine.

 

[Ducatist4]

You are admitting to boarding the train without a ticket which is an offence in itself. You must have a valid ticket before you step onto the train.

 

[Hadders]

Whether you are upfront about the journeys now or ask Chiltern about them is up to you, but you're going to have to address them at some point.

Chiltern hold the aces here, they are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court for the offence you committed on the day where you were caught. Chiltern will normally offer an out of court settlement if you co-operate with them. The difficulty here is that you have several journeys that, ordinarily, appear to be suspicious to Chiltern. You will have to come up with a very good argument to persuade Chiltern that they are genuine, and that you are co-operating with them.

 

[lolcat10]

Thank you both.

 

[30907]

Thank you both. @Hadders do you think the above draft needs any changes?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Nov 2024 ==

And given the tricky nature as you say, I’m wondering if I should just engage with a solicitor at this point.

1. I would delete paras 2 and 3 altogether, but say in para 4 something like "I have checked my own records and as far as I can see all the tickets correspond to journeys I have made. However, if you can supply more detail etc....

Ask them to consider settling rather than making them an offer.

2. I don't think you need a solicitor based on what you have told us.

 

[WesternLancer]

1. I would delete paras 2 and 3 altogether, but say in para 4 something like "I have checked my own records and as far as I can see all the tickets correspond to journeys I have made. However, if you can supply more detail etc....

Ask them to consider settling rather than making them an offer.

2. I don't think you need a solicitor based on what you have told us.

FWIW I agree with these good suggestions. - If your response doesn't work to get them to offer a settlement then that might be the time to contact a solicitor. Recent examples of solicitors fees quoted on here seem to range from £500 to £900.

 

[soil]

It's too long, and there's no need to admit any offences (boarding without a ticket) in it.

You could say something like:

I buy all my tickets online, covering a range of journeys I make on Chiltern trains. On the day in question I was distracted by other matters and forgot to buy a ticket, only realising when I reached my destination that I had not got a ticket. In my haste to buy the ticket I inadvertently selected the wrong origin in the app. I realize that this mistake would have been avoided if I make a habit of checking my ticket before boarding the train. I have learned from this and will not do it again.
I have checked my purchase history in the app and this is the only time I have ever purchased this ticket, so this was a genuine mistake, not an intentional attempt to choose a cheaper ticket. If you are able to provide a list of any other journeys which you think are doubtful then I can provide an account for my journeys on those dates, as I know I have not done this before and will not do it again.