London North Eastern Railway (LNER) First Class service

[Deerfold]

About as unexciting as it is possible for a ‘Christmas’ menu to be…

https://www.lner.co.uk/globalassets/christmas-menu-2024-fc.pdf

Then, no doubt, a ‘delicious’ Veganuary fix, whether you want it or not!

There's usually more items on their Veganuary menu that aren't vegan than are. Including no vegan dessert.

 

[Discuss223]

Paupers'.........sorry "Christmas" Menu coming on the 11th, confirmed.

Yes, it does seem underwhelming! The crumpets are rolled out again as a cheap menu filler, I wouldn't call two crumpets a meal and I wouldn't call a lone satsuma a meal either. I'm a vegetarian and am surprised to see so little choice for meat eaters. It's the sort of menu that would be "OK" for a shuttle service on a day when a blockade is on, but rather embarrassing for a menu lasting almost a month, at a time of year when most people push the boat out.

 

[30907]

Yes, it does seem underwhelming! The crumpets are rolled out again as a cheap menu filler, I wouldn't call two crumpets a meal and I wouldn't call a lone satsuma a meal either. I'm a vegetarian and am surprised to see so little choice for meat eaters. It's the sort of menu that would be "OK" for a shuttle service on a day when a blockade is on, but rather embarrassing for a menu lasting almost a month, at a time of year when most people push the boat out.

No hot dish on the all-day menu is particularly disappointing.

 

[800Travel]

No hot dish on the all-day menu is particularly disappointing.

Do they not serve the sausage roll hot? Would've thought that could be an easy win for them - cold sausage roll would not be so fantastic.

 

[Bungle73]

Years ago, during Covid, they had a warm cheese and something filled ciabatta thing, even on the Lincoln services, on the menu. It was very nice, and very filling. I don't know why they don't do something like that these days.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Warburtons crumpets retail for 13p each and LNER are trying to sell them as a luxury breakfast?

It breaks my heart what David Horne has done to that operator. A man who understands the cost of everything and the value of nowt. He makes Alex Cruz of British Airways look like a spendthrift by comparison.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Years ago, during Covid, they had a warm cheese and something filled ciabatta thing, even on the Lincoln services, on the menu. It was very nice, and very filling. I don't know why they don't do something like that these days.

Cheese and Mushroom I believe. I remember it was at the same time they done the Waffles (which im very surprised haven’t come back!)

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Warburtons crumpets retail for 13p each and LNER are trying to sell them as a luxury breakfast?

It breaks my heart what David Horne has done to that operator. A man who understands the cost of everything and the value of nowt. He makes Alex Cruz of British Airways look like a spendthrift by comparison.

I completely agree. Even the standard offering, compared to how the offering was just after taking over from VTEC, is frankly embarrassing. With Virgin Trains East Coast, and 2018/2019 LNER, every morning service offered a hot full breakfast, plus other options such as bubble and squeak, every afternoon service offered at least one or two choices of a small hot meal, even Newark terminators, and there was a good number of full Evening Meal services with a proper dessert such as a cheesecake or crumble or panna cotta or something.

Now, almost on every northbound service and a number of southbound services the most filling breakfast option is a bacon roll, with some VERY condescending responses I've seen to those travelling London Edinburgh who dare ask for a second, and other cooked options like the bubble and squeak replaced with microwaved waffles, a staggering number of rest of the day services offer sandwiches or cold snacks only now, and I don't just mean Lincolns, and even the evening meal services have been cheapened, with desserts replaced with a packaged cake.

And what's so infuriating is that these downgrades are upsold as an upgrade. If you're going to make cuts, do them quietly or discreetly, but don't try and take your customers for an idiot by making out like it's a good thing. True, you can now have a beer on Saturday afternoons, and a warm bacon roll instead of the former pain au chocolate on Sunday mornings, but the changes have still been primarily poor.

 

[Butts]

I completely agree. Even the standard offering, compared to how the offering was just after taking over from VTEC, is frankly embarrassing. With Virgin Trains East Coast, and 2018/2019 LNER, every morning service offered a hot full breakfast, plus other options such as bubble and squeak, every afternoon service offered at least one or two choices of a small hot meal, even Newark terminators, and there was a good number of full Evening Meal services with a proper dessert such as a cheesecake or crumble or panna cotta or something.

Now, almost on every northbound service and a number of southbound services the most filling breakfast option is a bacon roll, with some VERY condescending responses I've seen to those travelling London Edinburgh who dare ask for a second, and other cooked options like the bubble and squeak replaced with microwaved waffles, a staggering number of rest of the day services offer sandwiches or cold snacks only now, and I don't just mean Lincolns, and even the evening meal services have been cheapened, with desserts replaced with a packaged cake.

And what's so infuriating is that these downgrades are upsold as an upgrade. If you're going to make cuts, do them quietly or discreetly, but don't try and take your customers for an idiot by making out like it's a good thing. True, you can now have a beer on Saturday afternoons, and a warm bacon roll instead of the former pain au chocolate on Sunday mornings, but the changes have still been primarily poor.

I've often wondered about this and to me it seems a bit parsimonious not to offer a second in the absence of a proper cooked breakfast.

Ideally they would have a sausage bap to complement the bacon one.

Surely the marginal cost is minimal ?

 

[voyagerdude220]

Now, almost on every northbound service and a number of southbound services the most filling breakfast option is a bacon roll, with some VERY condescending responses I've seen to those travelling London Edinburgh who dare ask for a second

That doesn't sound like good customer service to me at all, particularly if LNER presumably think their First Class service is a "premium" product. After all no doubt there's a quite steep difference between Standard Class and First Class tickets.

I can fully understand if stock is limited and they need to "ration" what they have left and prioritise anyone who may have not been given food yet.

I love a bacon roll- but there's a big difference between that and a cooked breakfast.

 

[Discuss223]

That doesn't sound like good customer service to me at all, particularly if LNER presumably think their First Class service is a "premium" product. After all no doubt there's a quite steep difference between Standard Class and First Class tickets.

I can fully understand if stock is limited and they need to "ration" what they have left and prioritise anyone who may have not been given food yet.

I love a bacon roll- but there's a big difference between that and a cooked breakfast.

It's been a problem for years on this franchise, staff being unhospitable in their response when asked for second servings. First Class should showcase the pinnacle of great customer service. However, all too often, staff can be belligerent and act like they really don't want to be there. I am not saying they should break the rules and give second servings - stock will be calculated to levels that need to ensure everyone is offered something but* they should be more customer-focussed in their response, an example would be to say "sorry sir, we only serve one menu item per customer but my colleagues will be along shortly to offer you further snacks and refreshments and we also have a buffet bar in coach G where you can purchase sandwiches" would be a better response than scalding customers like they are naughty children.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

scalding customers like they are naughty children.

This is exactly the problem with many first class hosts, and indeed it seems as though the railway is the only customer service industry where it’s still considered acceptable to speak to customers like they’re children being told off by teachers at school. I’ve said this many times, and usually when referencing to LNER First Class too as per now.

 

[Bungle73]

Actually, in one way the way the menus are now is better for me. For the past few years (not this year though), I've been catching the 11:00 am train from KGX to Edinburgh for a holiday. Previously it would have been the bog standard all day menu...or whatever they were calling it at the time. Now that train has the best, Dine, menu. I enjoyed a rather nice chef cooked trout meal last time.


I'm sure coming back (15:30) was Dine too, but now that train appears to have reverted to Dish.........

 

[Sleepy]

Sadly the reasons to travel 1st class with LNER seem to be declining every year - the variable catering offer just isn't good enough for the premium fares.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Exactly the point. I made a few posts back. Lner had a very, very serious opportunity to get a lot of money out of me next month when I've got to go up and back twice in a fortnight. That level of mileage requires comfort in order to be able to keep going and perform whatever you're doing at either end. But as I kind of expected, they've disappointed me with both ridiculous affairs on the trains I wanted and a truly pathetic catering offering and as others have mentioned, decidedly suspect customer service in some cases my money will simply be spent elsewhere

 

[Tetchytyke]

Other than the bigger seat I wouldn’t see any benefit of travelling first class with LNER anymore. And the bigger seat isn’t worth the premium LNER are charging.

Last couple of times I’ve been on LNER I’ve been on a Britrail pass and the premium on that ticket is quite small. It’s been very poor, even with the previously excellent Newcastle crews.

I’d be absolutely livid if I’d paid an extra fifty quid or more to experience that “service”.

As for the fares, BA Club Europe is often not much more expensive than LNER first class now. Compare how even mediocre BA crews treat you to how LNER treat you.

 

[Butts]

This is exactly the problem with many first class hosts, and indeed it seems as though the railway is the only customer service industry where it’s still considered acceptable to speak to customers like they’re children being told off by teachers at school. I’ve said this many times, and usually when referencing to LNER First Class too as per now.

Imagine if there was a "call button" like there is on Aircraft ?

 

[paul1609]

Other than the bigger seat I wouldn’t see any benefit of travelling first class with LNER anymore. And the bigger seat isn’t worth the premium LNER are charging.

Last couple of times I’ve been on LNER I’ve been on a Britrail pass and the premium on that ticket is quite small. It’s been very poor, even with the previously excellent Newcastle crews.

I’d be absolutely livid if I’d paid an extra fifty quid or more to experience that “service”.

As for the fares, BA Club Europe is often not much more expensive than LNER first class now. Compare how even mediocre BA crews treat you to how LNER treat you.

Surely on a service that has had to be bailed out by tax payers yet again there shouldn't be any complimentary service whatsoever. The first class areas should be in the process of being ripped out to provided extra capacity in a lumo type environment to avoid overcrowding for the proletariat. The nonsense of 140 mph trainsets being extended on to low speed branch lines in Yorkshire and Scotland should be stopped today?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Make the standard class seats actually usable for anything more than an hour without needing an osteopath or some other medical practitioner afterwards. And I totally agree with you. The selection of direct services is being looked at but I wouldn't say any of the Scottish runs are now particularly low speed, both Aberdeen and Inverness are well-engineered mainlines and both benefit greatly from their London service furthermore, I don't think the current Scott rail timetabling would accommodate the number of additional passengers, particularly on the Aberdeen route trying to access Edinburgh for these 140 mile units that don't get anywhere near that speed as north of the border. These trains form part of the regular timetable and are not additions in quite the same way as lumo or grand Central are

 

[Haywain]

Surely on a service that has had to be bailed out by tax payers yet again there shouldn't be any complimentary service whatsoever.

LNER is a profitable operation.

 

[Falcon1200]

The nonsense of 140 mph trainsets being extended on to low speed branch lines in Yorkshire and Scotland should be stopped today?

LNER are about to withdraw their (at one time two-hourly, more recently once-daily) service between Edinburgh and Glasgow Central; That route, via Carstairs, is not in any shape or form a 'low speed branch line'. Nor are their routes from Edinburgh to Aberdeen and Inverness.

 

[GuyGibsonVC]

Got the 0901 off Morpeth to Edinburgh today.

Due to an onboard power failure, there was no DINE breakfast option and no hot drinks. Not good if you’re going all the way to Aberdeen.

A very expensive train, carrying hundreds of passengers at 125mph, powered by 25Kv but nobody can get a cup of tea. Surely there is a back up generator or something?

I knew I should’ve got my normal Flat White from the station cafe but I’d thought I’d treat myself. First world problems, I guess, but the constant erosion of this as a premium product continues.

 

[ainsworth74]

Surely on a service that has had to be bailed out by tax payers yet again there shouldn't be any complimentary service whatsoever. The first class areas should be in the process of being ripped out to provided extra capacity in a lumo type environment to avoid overcrowding for the proletariat.

What on earth are you talking about? LNER is (and previous incumbents have been) profitable (outside of the Covid period which rather ruined a lot of other companies both railway and otherwises profitability). It's one of the few operations that is. Previous private operators have failed because they've been unable, for various reasons, to make enough profit to keep up with the premium payments that were required by their franchise agreement.

There is perhaps a discussion to be had, indeed it has been had multiple times, on whether there should be first class sections on trains and which service groups should have it (or not).

The nonsense of 140 mph trainsets being extended on to low speed branch lines in Yorkshire and Scotland should be stopped today?

Your views that stopping a train anywhere between London and Edinburgh is a waste of time are well known but thankfully those who would prefer to operate a useful service understand the lunacy of this view and so instead operate a profitable service that provides which serves a large swathe of Yorkshire and the North East instead.

 

[30907]

LNER are about to withdraw their (at one time two-hourly, more recently once-daily) service between Edinburgh and Glasgow Central; That route, via Carstairs, is not in any shape or form a 'low speed branch line'. Nor are their routes from Edinburgh to Aberdeen and Inverness.

Nor indeed is Skipton (operated in marginal time anyway), though I suppose Shipley-Bradford might count as low speed (by LNER standards).

 

[D6130]

Nor indeed is Skipton (operated in marginal time anyway), though I suppose Shipley-Bradford might count as low speed (by LNER standards).

....and Leeds-Harrogate.

 

[Mag_seven]

Can we get back to discussing the LNER 1st Class Service please.

If anyone wants to discuss anything else LNER related then they are welcome to start a new thread.

 

[Bishopstone]

First class occupancy on LNER is high and growing, isn’t it?

The main market being leisure travellers in groups, looking to treat themselves, usually on Advance tickets and often railcard discounted. Presumably the level of repeat custom and recommendation is strong enough to support the current catering offer.

So it works, commercially, which is all that really matters as far as first class is concerned: obviously there are other public service considerations around Standard fares etc.

Alternative business models include a lavish catering offer supported by a first class fare floor of, say, £150 - or the BR model of selling seats and catering separately.

But whilst you can buy a cheapie discounted Advance for £15, take a 70-minute hop, and avail of the full offer, I wouldn’t expect too much more.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's been a problem for years on this franchise, staff being unhospitable in their response when asked for second servings.

And yet in my experience they're super-generous with alcohol, unless that's changed more recently. I recall one steward who I wondered if he was trying to get me drunk - I think I got through 5 ciders between Edinburgh-Kings X and ended up with one to take with me too!

 

[ainsworth74]

The main market being leisure travellers in groups, looking to treat themselves, usually on Advance tickets and often railcard discounted.

Yes that does seem to be a reasonable chunk of traffic. I actually think that there's a need to reseat them with more tables of two, the provision of a large number of solo seats made sense in a pre-Covid world where there was a lot of daily business travel but I reckon that these days there isn't enough tables of two anymore. I actually think that going back to a similar density to that in Mk4s would make sense. I never usually struggled to get a solo seat when travelling alone on a Mk4 but equally never struggled to find a table for two when travelling with someone else. On the Azuma's however it can be an issue getting a table for two if you don't book as soon as trains open for reservations!

And yet in my experience they're super-generous with alcohol, unless that's changed more recently. I recall one steward who I wondered if he was trying to get me drunk - I think I got through 5 ciders between Edinburgh-Kings X and ended up with one to take with me too!

Very crew dependent but yes I've still had times when it seems the crew are trying to get my drunk!

 

[DDB]

And yet in my experience they're super-generous with alcohol, unless that's changed more recently. I recall one steward who I wondered if he was trying to get me drunk - I think I got through 5 ciders between Edinburgh-Kings X and ended up with one to take with me too!

No cider on the menu