Lancaster University railway station

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Do I detect a line of thought beginning to develop here with regard to rail station provision for the academic establishments in the North Lancashire area that does not exist at present?

First, we have Lancaster University... now Myerscough College, that is north of Preston. The next thing to occur may possibly be UCLAN asking that the Preston to Longridge line be re-opened to provide a station to serve the student accomodation blocks near to Preston station.:roll:

This is not the rail infrastructure planning department of the London Midland and Scottish Railway with the powers to open such stations....although there are times when we on the forum would have enjoyed to have occupied such a position.

 

[mbonwick]

There are already extra buses on a Wednesday - you normally find that any spare Volvo Olympians, or Leyland 14196, end up duping the short 3 or the Sainsbury's bus for extra capacity. There isn't really much more Stagecoach, or any other operator, could do.

My understanding was/is that these plans are highly speculative and a long way from formal negotiation. Not sure if the Uni would publish what they have discussed; the reason I say this is because an (admittedly unreliable) friend told me Stagecoach had been unsucessful in an appeal as it's in their interests for the scheme not to happen.

I think I heard somewhere that formal discussion on regeneration plans, at pre-recession rates of redevelopment, didn't need to start until 2017 so it's probably even further away now.

 

[driver9000]

Years ago there were dedicated shuttles on the old service 1 that ran at the beginning and end of term between the campus and Lancaster railway station, it was scrapped after passenger numbers on it plummeted as most students arrive by road with their parents.

Unless things have changed massively since I left Stagecoach then this is still the case. With the expansion of the University and the increase of campus accommodation it is thought that student housing requirements in the city will fall and most will live on the campus (passenger numbers eased slightly after SW Campus opened) meaning reduced passengers using the buses although an increase in evening passengers may happen. I doubt a station at the university would take away Intercity services from Castle station as this would be massively unpopular with those who don't live in the south of the city given the extra time required to reach to University station (or whatever it would be called). If a station was there it would most likely be served by regional services most likely the (already crowded) TPE services. I can't see what realistic purpose a station there would serve, I honestly can't see students walking all the way down the hill, crossing the road and waiting for a train when there is a perfectly convenient and very regular bus service leaving from the heart of the campus - I don't think the railway could cope with the demand either like the bus service can, nor do all students travel to the city centre - a lot get off in Hala,Scotforth,Bowerham and Greaves. I think the rail fare would be higher than the current bus fare which I think is less than £1.50 single and this could put students off.

 

[northwichcat]

First, we have Lancaster University... now Myerscough College, that is north of Preston.

The Preston-Lancaster line used to have local stations on it but they were all closed. Now rail usage is up we should be looking at reopening stations, or opening new stations where current demand would not be in the same place as demand in the past so a literal reopening of an old station wouldn't be the best idea.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Preston-Lancaster line used to have local stations on it but they were all closed. Now rail usage is up we should be looking at reopening stations, or opening new stations where current demand would not be in the same place as demand in the past so a literal reopening of an old station wouldn't be the best idea.

I thought that you would have known me well enough by now (and my age-group) to not to have the need to remind me that stations did exist on the line section between Preston and Lancaster, nor for the reasons for closure. Yes, I know that Boars Head was one of the stations on the line. I travelled many times to Lancaster during the days of steam locomotives. A brief aside, I also remember the Whelley loop.

The electrification of the WCML needs this line section to be clear of any stations or goods yards that once existed there, whether it be on the site of a former station or a completely new station site. Much of the line in that area passes through farmland and the only real size of population is in the Garstang area, which would have been a possibility for station re-opening with outside platform loops, but such is the speed requirement of the line and the general line availability requirements, that has led to the present situation. I have seen no calls for this line to be quadrupled in the foreseeable future and if this were to happen, the infrastructure costs would be very high.

Historically, Garstang had every reason to expect station facilities during the age of steam and prior to electrification of this line, which, I am the first to admit, would certainly be totally justified today, had it been on a line similar to the Preston to Colne line or the line from Carnforth to Barrow. And I do not need reminding that a certain branch line ran from this area to Knott End.

 

[dggar]

I am pleased to hear that you know of the 147 service in Manchester. It is known as the Oxford Road Link an is operated by R. Bullock Buses, a division of their coach company. It is very useful for undergraduates at Manchester University who arrive in the city by rail as it starts its journey at Travis Street and at Manchester Piccadilly rail station then proceeds to the University Campus and Manchester Royal Infirmary. It then returns by the same route.

Paul I live in Manchester and worked for Central Manchester Foundation trust and it's predecessors for 35 yrs until my retirement last June.
Are you cofusing me with the original poster?

I think it was me who pointed you to this forum.

Paul Sidorczuk says:
April 17, 2011 at 2:16 pm
David, thanks for the link to Rail Forums( from Manchester Transport).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

David, I am sorry that I did not respond sooner, as it was through you that I have indeed found this forum. Quite obviously, I did confuse you with the original poster in the Lancaster University thread...advancing age does nothing for your attention-span. I note that you retired last June...I retired last March, but I find it hard to escape from my past consultancy work, even on an unpaid basis, as the telephone rings at least once a day asking if I will sit on this committee, etc, etc..

Besides Manchester Transport, I am still with East of the M60 (with the famous urban poet) and On Trains and Buses. Skyscraper City seems to have 50-60 postings a day on their Metrolink dedicated site, which does take some reading during a quiet moment, but the Light Rail/Metro sub-forum on here is very good.

 

[craigy68]

(could happen if the WCML plans came off and Lancaster/Oxenholme/Penrith lose long distance services)

what's the plan ?

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Lazy bums, I used to walk from town onto campus most days.

 

[northwichcat]

More to the point, are the main areas of student accommodation near the station? Students living commuting from Preston, for instance, can easily walk between the station and university but students arriving at Lancaster station with luggage won't be able to walk as far.

 

[driver9000]

A lot of students live within the city centre or to the south of it. The biggest student accommodation areas are/were Bowerham,Greaves,Primrose,Bulk (anywhere with houses that sport yellow doors indicating they are let by Yellow door) which are all within a 10-20 minute walk of the railway station and all have regular bus services from the bus station. However most students tend to arrive by road with their parents those coming by rail fell massively several years ago which saw the end of the special shuttle buses.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

More to the point, are the main areas of student accommodation near the station? Students living commuting from Preston, for instance, can easily walk between the station and university but students arriving at Lancaster station with luggage won't be able to walk as far.

But surely this is the case at most universities. UCLAN at Preston being an example. Many undergraduates are brought by car by their parents these days. For those who travel by train with much luggage, there are taxi services available.

At Lancaster, it would be interesting to know the percentage of undergraduates who do use the train service and have difficulty in travelling from the railway station. Perhaps the University administrative offices can be contacted by prospective undergraduates prior to their choice of this university to establish what are the methods of transport advised when arriving at Lancaster station with much luggage. This should be part of their University information made available to intending undergraduates.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

From what I recall, most student accommodation was closer to the bus station than the railway station - all the places I stayed were on an easy bus route - and of course no matter how close the station could be to the uni gates there is still a long slog up that slope that the buses avoid that I think would also make the train rather a pain for students arriving at first with their luggage, for those in the more distant accommodation the walk could be close on a mile.

Similar for shopping in town for those on campus, using the train would require a long walk to the station from the city centre and then the walk onto campus, the bus station is much better sited.

 

[northwichcat]

But surely this is the case at most universities. UCLAN at Preston being an example. Many undergraduates are brought by car by their parents these days. For those who travel by train with much luggage, there are taxi services available.

At the start and end of the year I agree that most students would be taken by car. However, the number of international students has increased in recent years and the towns/cities served by a direct Airport service look attractive to those students.

For UK students there is also a number who go home some weekends. Male students usually take a large sports bag that they'd be comfortable walking a mile with. On the other hand female students seem to take large suitcases even just for the weekend, struggle even getting the suitcase on and off the train and look at other passengers with a "who's going to help this poor girl" type look.

Students going home for Christmas holidays are also more likely to use the train over driving/being driven due to short days and high risk of snow and ice, especially for students who cross the Pennines.

 

[driver9000]

From what I recall, most student accommodation was closer to the bus station than the railway station - all the places I stayed were on an easy bus route - and of course no matter how close the station could be to the uni gates there is still a long slog up that slope that the buses avoid that I think would also make the train rather a pain for students arriving at first with their luggage, for those in the more distant accommodation the walk could be close on a mile.

All bus services heading to the underpass use the main S shaped hill up into the University, certainly a slow drawn out process taking a fully loaded Leyland Titan up there! Until the building of the South West campus this was the only access for them. The extended campus has a regular bus service into the city centre originally this was the X2,3 and 4 although the X2 is now the X1 which terminates at the railway station. All of the Stagecoach services serving the university serve the off campus accommodation areas. I'm still of the persuasion that given the option of catching a 3 minute frequency bus from the heart of the campus or walking down the big hill and crossing a busy road to wait for a less frequent train the students would choose the bus every time - it's just far too convenient, especially now there is the X1 taking them direct to the railway station on their UniRider passes.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'm a bit biased. I'd like to see one asap to save journeying into town, not to mention the fact that at least Birmingham has one! :lol

I thought that I would see what the OP said at the start of this thread. My reply would be, that you look for matters of tranportation BEFORE you choose which University that you wish to attend.

Retrospection is not to be recommended.

 

[bluenoxid]

So, the plan is to build a railway station for students when they bring their heavy luggage along. So, no one has heard of a taxi.

 

[185]

Probably a definate no, as with it just being a 2 line section, there's nowhere for stuff to overtake. Proximity of site to Lancaster station is only slightly over a mile too.

 

[HST Power]

So, the plan is to build a railway station for students when they bring their heavy luggage along. So, no one has heard of a taxi.

The students are already paying £9,000 a year to get their degrees so I severely doubt they can afford to take out another loan to pay for a taxi!

 

[bluenoxid]

hahahaha. I guess you have never seen the amount of money that quite a few students have squandered during their degrees. Currently, they borrow just over £6,000 per year with the student loan. This will rise to just over £12,000 from next year. A part time job is certainly a way of enhancing the income as is cutting the bevvies down.

 

[HST Power]

hahahaha. I guess you have never seen the amount of money that quite a few students have squandered during their degrees. Currently, they borrow just over £6,000 per year with the student loan. This will rise to just over £12,000 from next year. A part time job is certainly a way of enhancing the income as is cutting the bevvies down.

Do you know how hard it is for a first time applicant to get a decent job capable of paying such sums off?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Do you know how hard it is for a first time applicant to get a decent job capable of paying such sums off?

That, unfortunately, is what most undergraduates are going to face under the present economic situation, through no fault of their own, with all the worry of repaying all the loans that have amassed.

When I was at University in 1966, having just graduated, the lack of a well paid position was the least of our problems. Our main worry was to choose the best offer from those companies queing up to recruit new graduate-level staff.

 

[HST Power]

That, unfortunately, is what most undergraduates are going to face under the present economic situation, through no fault of their own, with all the worry of repaying all the loans that have amassed.

On a brighter note, the IMF do believe that the unemployment rate has stabilised.





(NB: If this thread has gone into politics in two pages time, I apologise!!!)

 

[bluenoxid]

Do you know how hard it is for a first time applicant to get a decent job capable of paying such sums off?

Yes, having spent 14 months hunting for one. Unfortunately, the government has yet to work out how to sort it out and faces a hefty bill in 25 years time when this thing will bite it on the rear.

However, to expect a £5 cab ride to bankrupt students is really taking the ****.

 

[Mr C]

I like the idea of a new station at lancaster university but the current services aren't right for the station. A 4th tph is needed, maybe a northern run EMU post northwest electrification. In an ideal world money would be spent on opening local station along the route.

Starting at Preston it could call at:
Fulwood/Preston college
Garstang
Lancaster uni
Lancaster castle
Bare lane
Morecambe
Bare lane
Heat bank
Bolton-le-sands
Carnforth

A lot of these stations would need to have platform loops built and obviously a few miles of electrification in Morecambe (possible Heysham whilst your there) and maybe Carnforth platforms.

northbound it could use the path of a portion worked tpe at xx04 from preston and southbound it could follow the xx57 Birmingham through Lancaster.

It would help reduce traffic in both lancaster and preston.

Scrap the Morecambe - Lancaster shuttle and use unit to supliment the 5 existing leeds diagrams with some more skipton - Morecambes

Yes cost would be enormous but for a city with a crippled oneway system and a real lack of stations could it be cheaper than the proposed bypass??

 

[driver9000]

A station at the university won't cure the chronic congestion in the city. A lot of that would be cured by removing the HGVs and other port traffic onto the new bypass if it ever gets built. A better frequency and advertising of the Morecambe-Lancaster rail service would help too as it is cheaper than driving and also cheaper and quicker than the bus.

 

[Gathursty]

I thought that I would see what the OP said at the start of this thread. My reply would be, that you look for matters of tranportation BEFORE you choose which University that you wish to attend.

Retrospection is not to be recommended.

I looked into transport beforehand and am quite happy with my arrangements to take luggage to and from home. There is a hint of people going down the route of 'lazy students' when that's not the point of this thread. I'm just saying that, for me, it seems a bit daft to travel north (bus from campus to station) to go south (on the train, usually) and that spurred my opening thread.

Some people have thought about including Myerscough College and other institutions which is interesting, although I'm surprised by the lack of Garstang reopening posts.

I think it is a valid point to say that there'd need to be more room on the WCML to add proposed stations (in the same vein as Euxton Balshaw Lane: now I've said that, I'll likely open a 'make a Standish/Coppull railway station thread' as well.) but this may make the WCML more congested for little reward.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A station at the university won't cure the chronic congestion in the city. A lot of that would be cured by removing the HGVs and other port traffic onto the new bypass if it ever gets built. A better frequency and advertising of the Morecambe-Lancaster rail service would help too as it is cheaper than driving and also cheaper and quicker than the bus.

I saw a poster for the new bypass and meeting for locals in the bus station. It looks like a good effort and quite an innovative solution to the problem of a junction near the River Lune.

 

[driver9000]

The first section of the bypass opened in the mid 90s and we've been waiting for the rest of it ever since. The city is a nightmare to drive through and I sometimes wonder if we'll ever see something done about it. Adding yet more traffic lights and extending the solitary bus lane don't count in my book, all it takes is one breakdown, bump or delivery lorry to grind the place to a halt.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm just saying that, for me, it seems a bit daft to travel north (bus from campus to station) to go south (on the train, usually) and that spurred my opening thread.

That is no different than a lot of university cities.

 

[S19]

A station at the university won't cure the chronic congestion in the city. A lot of that would be cured by removing the HGVs and other port traffic onto the new bypass if it ever gets built. A better frequency and advertising of the Morecambe-Lancaster rail service would help too as it is cheaper than driving and also cheaper and quicker than the bus.

They're certainly missing a trick with our local line IMO. Even the connections are crap when coming back to Lancaster. Sometimes you have to wait 40 minutes to get Morecambe service. Quicker to get a lift.

It's a shame there isn't a decent station at Heysham.. say near the end of the bypass and one near the Globe Arena. The Heysham branch could be really useful if the thought was put into it.

 

[driver9000]

A station at the Heysham end of the bypass wouldn't be beyond the realms of fantasy either in my opinion and might be more worthwhile than one at the university as most of the traffic problems in Lancaster is generated from the Morecambe/Heysham end. I always queued longer coming from Morecambe than coming in from the south which generally flowed quite freely. The road crosses the railway and there is plenty of land for a park and ride style station with the potential to remove a lot of journeys along the bypass from Heysham/Morecambe which end up in Lancaster having crawled along Morecambe Rd into the city centre. A new station in Heysham isn't likely to happen while the branch is only used once or twice a day by the boat train. Obviously it wouldn't remove the HGV traffic heading to the motorway that has no choice but to travel over Skerton Bridge - the bypass extension would do that. Maybe the new X12 bus service due for launch later this year will be a success and help reduce a bit of the traffic...at least it will have the bus lane at Ovangle Road roundabout to beat the traffic now.